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About Joey

  • Birthday November 10

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  • A brief intro...
    On the scene back in the early 70's, left it at the end of '75 when it died. And I nearly did!  DJ'd at a few places in 74 and 75, and co-started the Oldham soul club, Wednesday nights at the Magnet.  Returned in the mid '90's, doing the all nighters thing again. Stopped when I reached fifty, and found myself slowly dying for a week after every AN. The music has never left me though, and is still all I listen to.  Been perusing this site for a while now, and there are one or two old souls on this forum who may remember me! The few remaining alive, that is!

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  • Public Real Name
  • Gender
  • Location
    Kirkcaldy, by way of Oldham and other points north, south, east and west.
  • Top Soul Sound
    Moses smith. Girl across the street, Jackie Lee, Oh my Darlin', Duke Browner, Crying over you. And about 347 others.

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  1. OK, it was my post which has been censored, and as a result, a "warning point" issued. It really doesn't surprise me in the slightest. It would appear that to contradict many of the accepted views on this, and other threads, is now deemed as "wrong speak". None of my reply to Rob1159's post could be construed as "objectionable" in my book, and was, as usual, 100% factual. Maybe I'm just not "woke" enough for this place. So, in line with how I've been feeling about this forum for quite a while now, its time for me to say goodbye. Permanently. I'd like to say thank you to the many members who I reconnected with after a lifetime away, and also those new ones, who I now consider friends. I'd mostly like to thank people such as Kegsy and Mickey Finn, who whilst both being on the opposite side of the political spectrum to myself, have proved to be intelligent and interesting people, and a joy to speak and debate with. If any of you wish to remain in touch, then I'm sure you'll discover a way to find me. There's far more I would like to say, but the post would only get pulled again. As Big Dave/Bullet tooth Tony said, "Its been emotional". Bye folks.
  2. Finally, a voice of reason and understanding. Thank you Len! You're absolutely correct regarding DJing being akin to an art form. Which is why I tend to always bang the drum and ring the bell all the time for the late, great Martyn Ellis. A man who could raise the dead whenever he stood behind the decks, and who never owned a record collection! Collecting and DJing are most definite mutually exclusive activities. Or at the very least should be. Being one does not necessarily mean a person is going to be very good at the other. Anyone can see that at any number of venues!
  3. Like you Len, and after putting in my two pennorth worth earlier, I'd decided to steer well clear of this thread. Been there, seen it, done it far too many times to be bothered anymore. BUT....................at the risk of yet again pi$$ing some younger people off.................. Something you mentioned struck a chord. The term you used was "ORIGINAL" ethos. And this allows me to try to (for the umpteenth time) get across why the entire boots vs OVO thing is a complete and utter nonsense, if speaking about what is played and danced to in clubs etc., versus the serious hobby of record collecting. You see, ORIGINALLY, it'd didn't matter a toss. Punters just wanted to dance. It didn't matter what label the tune was on. It was the tune itself that mattered. People didn't have the cash to pay (even then) ridiculous amounts of cash for the latest sounds. We didn't have cassettes, CDs, MP3s, and all the other stuff we all take for granted these days. If you wanted to hear something, you needed to attend a venue. Big venues with big name DJs had these sounds, all on the original labels. (Or mostly anyway. I have already commented multiple times about certain DJs, now acclaimed and deified as Demi-Gods, who were all too happy to play emidiscs, as I sold the bloody things to them!!!!). But smaller venues, especially the local midweek ones, saw many tunes being played from reissues, boots, or emidiscs. People didn't bother. They danced! They enjoyed themselves! When many on this forum speak about the "early days", or the "origins", they're actually talking about post '75. Which is when about 95% of the members on this forum started on "the scene". Many myths and untruths have been written on these threads over the years concerning this scene of ours. Just because someone wasn't there at the time doesn't mean it didn't happen, but to read some of the tripe written about the Wheel, Torch, Cats and many, many other places makes me really chuckle. And all written by people who knew a friend of their big sisters boyfriends cousin, who may have been at the Torch once. Or, as its known to lots of people, the Elaine Constantine school of Norvern Soul. Bottom line is that the scene didn't start in 1976 at Station Road, as many on here seem to believe. And remember, we now pretty much have two separate scenes, running alongside each other. One, mainly all-nighter based, and attended mainly by many of the people on here. The other sees many, many people who left the Niter scene back in 75, but have religiously attended a local soul night near to home, every single week or month ever since. These people, the original members of the scene, may not have gotten themselves blocked up every week since, and attended a NIter, but may actually, depending on how you look at these things, actually be the people who have really kept the real scene alive. Or, if you want, call them "handbaggers", as many of the self appointed uber-cool on this forum have called them on numerous occasions. If we're talking about collecting, then all the above counts for nowt. I collected purely British back in the early 70's, having a collection that now would be worth God knows how much. I also DJd, and had no hesitation is using boots and emidiscs. To me, and everyone else back then, the two activities were mutually exclusive. I really cannot understand this new quasi-religious obsession with OVO etc. Bottom line is, as far as events are concerned, go where you want to go. Enjoy yourselves, dance, make new friends, learn new things. Life, even for the younger members on this forum, is getting far too short to be bothered about anything else, especially something as unimportant as the OVO yes or no argument. Oh, and finally, if yet again I've pi$$ed people off with my musings, I really don't care. Too old to be fussed. WAY too old!
  4. Jesus, really sorry to hear this Dave. I knew Pete from the old Pendulum/Torch days, as you know. A nicer bloke you couldn't meet. Mere words don't begin to describe how you must be feeling. My heartfelt condolences.
  5. Not seen it, but will be absolutely sure to do so soon!
  6. Been many a year since I watched the film. May just give it another go this evening. The album BTW is indeed quite a masterpiece.
  7. Try Robbie Robertson. He was, along with Levon Helm, one of the members of The Band back in the late sixties early seventies. Started off as the backing musicians for Ronnie Hawkins. When The Band split, he made a self titled solo album which I still greatly enjoy to this day. A very talented singer/songwriter, and not too bad a guitarist either. Hit YouTube as well, for The Bands star studded farewell gig in SF. Lost of well known faces on stage with them, including Ronnie Hawkins, the Staples Singers, Neil Diamond, Ringo Starr, and many others.
  8. Happy birthday mate. Hope it's been a grand 'un!
  9. Probably see eye to eye on very few subjects, but I've always been happy to debate anything with you, and believe it or not, I'll be sad to see you depart. Take a deep breath, take stock, and do a Leon Heywood, ok?
  10. Joey


    Someone else who was made to suffer first form Latin many years ago Julian?
  11. Yes Mike, 71 thru' 75. You have to remember that prior to about 75-76, realistically only one person in the country could afford to go shopping for records in the USA. A few originals came from the usual sources, such as Soul Bowl and Global etc., but most people, including most "ordinary" DJs, couldn't get a kosher copy of the latest sounds until they were booted. Everybody wanted the latest tunes, which is why bootlegging was so commonplace. And the overwhelming majority of people who tell you they didn't buy them back then is lying through their teeth. It was the only way you could hear up to date tunes at local soul clubs. After '76, and as the seventies progressed, we also all became far more wealthy than just a few years earlier. It was easier to spend larger amounts of personal cash on records, as long as you could find them of course. We are now at the point where just about every collector can spend ridiculously high amounts of money on amassing a collection of originals. Amounts which were unthinkable nearly fifty years ago. This makes the OVO religion much easier to adhere to now, than "back in the day". The late Wigan era, and after, appears to be the benchmark for many people on this forum. It wasn't always that way, and various aspects of the scene were actually VERY different prior to the Casino opening its doors. This scene of ours didn't start at Station Rd. My issue with the term "carver" is all down to hypocrisy. I have read posts on here, written by highly regarded and long standing members who have also gone into print about OVO and how boots are a blight on the scene, speaking glowingly about a set they'd heard somewhere. When asked about certain tunes played during that set, they've gone on to explain about the disc being a carver. As though that makes everything fine. I don't care whether its known as that or not, its a boot, end of! No different to an emi-disc back in 73. And I don't care whether the tune in question was an LP only track, and therefore transferred to a 7" just for ease of DJing. Its still a boot! Another example has recently appeared in the sales section. About twenty five or so years ago, an LP appeared for sale at just about every venue. A ten track disc of unreleased Motown stuff, such as Boy from Crosstown, Lonely Lover, Any girl in love, etc. etc. Think it cost about a tenner. You'll all have seen it and although many will deny it, they'll have bought the thing as well. It was, quite obviously, a boot. Now, I've seen it listed as a "white label", "unofficial release", "carver", and various other terms. I've also seen, long ago, people DJing with it. Again, its the bloody hypocrisy that gets you all the time! Finally, if an event is advertised as OVO, then fine, make it so. If needs be, and as inferred by a previous poster, put the door tax up to pay the DJs more. If its NOT an OVO event, who bloody cares what label the tunes are on? Boot or re-issue, British or import, emi-disc/carver or LP track. People will dance.
  12. All depends on exactly who was playing it/them. Certain DJs had original copies, others didn't. Many played tunes off so-called "carvers' even back then. And that term "carvers"? Used today by people trying to justify their use by themselves, whilst banging on about the need for a complete OVO policy at events. Call "carvers" what they really are, boots!
  13. Sorry, probably didn't explain myself properly. Always an issue when tapping a keyboard instead of speaking face to face. I should probably have used "debating" rather than arguing, at least as far as this thread is concerned. But trust me, at other times, and in other places, the arguments were truly legendary! And yes, it's all been very civil on this thread. The nastiness I spoke of would have been evident if certain people had been named, which I have absolutely no intention of doing! As for knocking it on the head, no, by all means keep it going. I just meant that I would be taking no further part in the debate. For now anyway
  14. My bad. Of course it was Jeff and not Chris. Getting my Kings and Burtons mixed up. Wasn't it eighteen months he got? Just surprised that CB never went down for it. I did hear that the BPI tickled him, a week or so after he put that full page ad in B&S. 1974? Something to do with the Dusty Springfield disc? As for the selling off of the OOTP discs, didn't CB offload as many as he could at cut prices, after they'd contacted him? But besides the SS and OOTP boots, there were the many look-a-likes circulating. I remember many being sold in Ralphs Records Manchester, as well as ordinary record shops in Oldham. One shop even had a handwritten list of the latest "imports" on the door, which changed weekly. Bottom line was, none of them were kosher. I don't want to name names here, as it would do absolutely no good at all, and only lead to yet more arguing and nastiness, (this topic has provided enough of that), but many, many DJs have used boots in the past. Even today, this is happening, but it seems to be OK if you call it a "carver", and have had it made privately in small batches. Then we come to reissues, the playing of which is apparently now just as heinous a crime. How many current DJs are happy to play Levi Jackson on Columbia? All of them. But surely it's nothing more than a reissue, just a different artist name? Like playing Frankie and the Classicals on PyeDD. Just plain hypocrisy. My last word is this. we've been arguing about this subject for about fifty years now, with no sign of a resolution or consensus being reached. It never will be. We could argue another fifty years and we wouldn't put the subject to bed. Its a pointless exercise.
  15. At the risk of offending, and given that the period I am speaking about was 71-74, that is absolute rubbish. It may well have been the case later, once the scene had dramatically changed and the original attendees had left, but trust me, it most certainly was not the case in those formative years of the scene. As I have stated previously, only one or two high profile DJs could "break" new sounds back then. The overwhelming majority played stuff that was well known, well liked, and in many cases, had been booted. A typical night at The Pendulum between 72 and 74 would have found it rammed. No space on the dance floor, and everyone having a tremendous night. The sounds? Probably 90% had been booted by then. Maybe more. As late as 74, top sounds there were tunes such as the VelVets, Lynn Randell, Jerry Williams, Lenis Guess and the like, all of which had been booted numerous times. You only have to look at Chris Burtons OOTP series of boots from 73/74 to see what was being danced to at the time. Before that it was Chris King and his Soul Sounds series. Trust me, when he booted those thirty tunes, no-one stopped dancing to them. Half a bloody century later, Gene Chandlers "there was a time" is still one of the scenes biggest guaranteed floor fillers. Last time I looked, no-one had ceased dancing to the Velvets, Moses Smith, Duke Browner and Jackie Lee either, all of which had been well booted by then. Mike, if youre reading this reply, it probably goes some way to explaining why I joined this site, and my comments about untruths and myths. You mentioned my views being coloured by my experiences in those early days. Kev's views, which are the same as many others, such as yourself, were probably influenced by the prevailing attitudes in later years. The problem is, those latter day views are seen by some as being applicable to the scene as a whole, from day one so to speak. If you weren't there, you cannot know what it was like. Post 1974/5, the scene was very different to the early days. And in so many ways. The whole issue surrounding boots etc. is just one topic. To those of us who attended in the early seventies, dancing to the tunes was paramount. Very little else mattered. Collecting rare records, on original labels, was something else entirely. The two activities, DJing and collecting, have become conflated over the years. And being one doesn't necessarily mean you're good at the other! I know I've mentioned it previously on other threads, but as well as DJing, I was also a serious collector back then. We didn't have too much knowledge about first and second issue of imports nor of look-a-like boots, so I only collected British. Plus the occasional imported LP, which we knew hadn't been booted. And this is where using boots instead of originals whilst DJing comes into the equation. Back then, the scene was very much like any coin. Two sides. In addition to the happy, smiling, everyone is everyones mates side, there was a very dark side also. Far darker than many would care to admit. Records were being stolen all the time, people were being rolled and robbed, ripped off, you name it. It made complete sense when DJing to play the likes of Hoagy Lands, Rufus Lumley, PP Arnold, Frankie and the Classicals, Bobby Paris and Sandy Wynns from boots, rather than take an enormous risk by having your Stateside, Immediate, Phillips, Polydor and Fontana copies with you.

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