jocko
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Posts posted by jocko
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Can you name one of the majorities that says it is better?
Just curios because I don't know any my self.
I would say the plethora of new nights kicking up around all over would suggest the guys running these obviously think it is better to run lots of small nights rather than support the already going on events. Saturday was a good example with Burnley on there was at least one relatively local do, allegedly playing something different, on same night as Burnley, sounds a bit crazy to me.
Are these the kind of guy's that should be running a big national venue if all the soul night's closed there doors I think not, Ever since that night I have never attended any of there All-nighters or Weekenders and never will. I would rather stay in the pub with a few mates playing soul records!.At what point did I mention large or National venues, I said it would be good if people into progressive side of Northern all went to the same venue, history tells us that does not normally require a huge venue. I don't think even Kev Roberts would try and sell Kings Hall as a progressive venue so I see no relevance to my point. He does what he does, and arguably does it well, it has no relevance to the sort of people I consider progressive however.
To say that a wannabee DJ is more interested in there own fame is bullocks as most local "Wwannabee" DJ's are collectors first but like to shear the music they love given the chance and in a lot of cases play a better spot than a so-called big guest DJ.,
The sort of DJ's I mentioned, Butch, Andy D, Mick H, and also people like Arthur Fenn, Steve G (who interestingly was the one who said he preferred current situation) & Cliff Steele, guys like that with collections big enough to rotate, or who chase things that are new, different and top quality, often rare - although never at the cost of quality with these guys. Following behind that you have guys like Karl Heard, the DDA guys (and girl!), out there doing it now, not living on their reputation, always looking for something new and worth hearing out. If you genuinely think there are guys out there at their local do's can do better than these guys, I would love to hear about it.
My whole point was a regular do featuring all these guys in one do is how it should be for MY ideal scenario, if you read on I was also saying I realised it was unlikely if not impossible these days. I fail to see how you can argue this point, if you really are into something different.
I love to share my music, I always have done. However I do it via CD (formerly tapes) and talking about great records, nowadays even the odd MP3 of my records, I certainly don't really think about starting my own night and DJ'ing at it just because I have some nice records (even though I do say so myself). I read these playlists of nights "with something different", and often they are great records but ones that are owned by the majority of collectors with reasonable sized collections, and often have been played out reasonably regularly in years 1985-2000, that isn't being that different to me.
I have no real vested interest here , I am just an old armchair critic, and to be honest as time goes on I see that the local dos do serve a purpose these days as people travel less, and yes its nice to hear some nice records and only have a £2 cab ride home. However they are not and should not be the centre of a progressive scene, arguably they are killing it. I can see why people prefer them but to say the majority are anything other than a comfy British Legion type place for ageing Northern fans is just wrong, IMVHO.
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Edited by jocko
Whats wrong with Peggy March, Paul Anka, Kiki dee etc, etc. Still sound good when played out are you gonna say Bobby Paris, Ad Libs, etc shouldn't be played to ? Musical snobbery. Its a dance scene that were into not a black music dance scene. It just happens to be predominately black music.The whole music scene we love is built around diversity. Black, White who cares, if its good play it.Steve
And what part of history of the scene did you get that it "just happens to be predominately Black music". You don't think that it is more than a coincidence based on the people who kicked this scene off and the style of music they chose to chase, you don't think it "just didn't" happen but that all these people you quote, (Paul Anka, Kiki Dee) were mimicking the style of Black music of it's day? In any dance scene there will always be crossovers between styles and borders that are crossed due to people chasing a beat only but that doesn't change the history and the motivation for that scene surely.
I think you will find lots of people on this scene are into "a Black dance scene" or as history has called it Soul music, you seem to be defining Northern on a very narrow time in the 70's and people who probably were only around for a few years during that period. What about from 79-95 when it was almost completely a Soul based scene, with little of the type of stuff you mention, majority I knew on the scene in these days were fans of many of the genres within Soul not just the ones Northern "chose" to adopt.. What about from 65-74 when I believe, from what I have read, it was again almost all about Soul music or records trying to copy that style. Pete Smith has very eloquently argued the case that the records you mention above are a huge part of the history of the scene, certainly for most our age, but to deny that it is a Soul scene and say it's just a co-incidence that the majority of records are Soul is just a bridge too far for my sensitive self.
And of course it's musical snobbery, I can't speak for Macca but I think it's a huge compliment to be called a musical snob, anyone that is not into the mainstream would consider themselves a music snob, surely that's what stops you listening to the same old crap as everyone else. Being a soul fan makes people the biggest musical snobs there are, it applies quality control to ensure that not every unrelated record with a beat is called a soul. Generally I ignore tosh like above but there is almost a backlash on here deriding anyone for being a soul fan these days or anyone who chooses to remember the Soul part Northern.
I love Paul Anka as a record and a memory, but if I went to a venue and heard it now I would probably be incredibly disappointed, would show just laziness on a DJ's part IMO. It has no relevance to what I am interested in now. Doesn't mean I want to fire-bomb all venues that play stuff like that, of which I am sure there are 100's still out there every Saturday night, good for them, I know they are there and I know I can avoid them. If I heard it a local do one night out for a few beers, I would probably smile at the memory, but that's it.
You choose to define yourself by a time in the scenes history rather than the music, great, but it's incredibly wrong to assume everyone else does.
And lastly Soul music, (as a genre not a general term) which as I say is an integral part of Northern for many of us, is not about colour of the skin, it's about the sound, which for proper soul is predominately, not always, sung by an Afro-American. That's just History, not my opinion and well documented if you want to read people more qualified than I am to document it.
And another one that's been argued enough on here IMHO.
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Russ I have PM'd you mate, assume it is material suitable for playing out you are after?
Try Fish at Simply Soul Records. www.firstexperiencerecords.com, not sure how many soundbites he has but he probably is the most consistent supplier of new music, lots of which is Gospel as well,
There is a main site have lost its address that also does general christian music, but you have to wade through lots of rubbish unless you know what it is, search on Christian Music suppliers, think you get a few but I gave up after the 2nd bible offering I am afraid!!
Probably wrong weekend to ask this as people like Roger Williams who pretty much lead the way in stuff like this these days are all away at the Birmingham weekender, so you may get a better answer when they have recovered.
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Its the people who are changing not the records, this is still an exciting record to listen and dance to IMO.
Thats a fair point mate, I suppose I am comparing it to nearly 30 years ago which is quite scary, my ears and mind were very different then obviously.
I just think that the evolution of the sounds I was lucky enough to witness in 80's/90's put stuff like this in the shade, doesn't mean that don't get an excited shiver thinking about dancing to this though, more about the time than the sound for me tho....
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Edited by jocko
Best version indeed, Mr. Coot - originally on Muscle Shoals Sound, picked up by Scepter, and doesn't cost a fortune on the latter either...Do you really thinks so lads? Katie Love is a fantasic record (Mr Dawg wash your ears out) and one I always used to put on tape swaps, but have a listen to Millie and she kills it, often think I used to probably prefer Katy as it was a bit trendier and less known (in my young and easily influenced days
), but now starting to think Mille wins. Whatever, you should have both versions, fantastic singers, great song, what more could you want.
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it's the same ray lewis, the really good one in my opinion is "cool love" on atco, it's a great cut. he also has a record on smash that is a good deep ballad (but with no group on it).
Cheers for that Bob, will look out for them, hopefully they will be as cheap as the Fairmount 45 was when I bought it.
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Right. Anybody who buys rare Soul records as an "investment" deserves what they get in my opinion. It wouldn't bother me one bit if records that I own that are currently listed in the £££100s dropped to £2 overnight - It would just mean I could go out and buy second copies of all my faves!
Recessions are not acts of God, they're usually caused by greed and the so-called "credit crunch" is no exception. Wall Street speculators are driving up the cost of oil after the collapse of their profits in the US housing market. Rare records are now just another "investment commodity" to some people. Hang the lot of 'em!
Wow Mel, at last something I can 100% agree with you on!!
:lol: The second paragraph particularly, thats why Mr Trouble is bigging up the Kings Go Forth single so he can make enough of the copies he has pre-ordered to retire off, he's bored of causing World Recessions with his dodgy derivitaves, City Boys, you can't trust them I tell you.....
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Just wondered if this is played out and about
Ray Lewis- Sitting at home with my baby/Too sweet to be lonely Dar101
Cheers
Ian
Is Too Sweet To Be Lonely same as Internationals on D'ar? If so anyone have a soundclip (even though I have no sound card at moment!!
I have a great ballad by Ray Lewis on Fairmount, is it same guy?
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Slightly twisting the question - as usual when the place whose name should never be mentioned is brought up the same arguments happen,
Forget the place the question to me that is more about what it would be like if everyone went to one venue, all the progressive crowd going to the same place, Butch djing weekly with all his records, and supported by the people likeminded (Mr Dyson, Mick H etc) then yes the records would be more accepted and the scene would be a million times better, it would be a scene which it isn't now. Mediocre flavour of the week records wouldn't be heard of other than in the local youth club nights (well if you can call gathering of 50 somethings a youth club!)
The majority who say it is better with the million soul nights are generally wannabee DJ's more interested in thier own "fame" or the millions of local soul night DJ's that seem to think they are the saviour of "the scene" and aren't thinking logically.
Actually that's not totally true as that description is not descriptive of Steve G - C'mon Mr G with all your records you could be one of the supporting cast at the same venue weekly!!
Okay the logistics like are there enough records, do people go out enough, are all the people asking for this just armchair critics probably make it a pipe dream but anything less to me is not a scene, just a group of buddies playing records in their local pub.
Okay back to my armchair for the next 3 days for me dreaming of a long gone youth...........
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Great topic, been meaning to get something going for ages, think it would be good to highlight one for re-issue stuff (Kent & Soulscape), and maybe one for newer stuff for the more adventurous.
Reissue wise mines currently is the Mary Gresham CD, fantastic stuff and needs to be supported to ensure these sort of labels continue to exist. Will add more details from home tonight.
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I love it, another debate over a nice but not great record, I would agree it is by far the best new release record so far, by a long long way, however wouldn't have even got a second listen 40 years ago, would definitely only sold 500 copies or less then in the days of large vinyl sales.
Anyone want to discuss the new Mitty Collier CD or does that not fit the trendy over taste criteria.
I do love this thread, have found myself agreeing with most of what Mr Trouble has said in last year or so, at last an opportunity to shout him down. I feel much better now.
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Edited by jocko
I am getting more & more suspicious of the OVO legislation
me-thinks this may be a passing of a law to ensure 'jobs for the boys'. Is this new law a way of restrict the minions in the lower fields; thus enabling the gentry to retain thier status and [possibly] helping to keep the doors slightly closed to a new audiance?Can anyone provide me with details of the Green Paper on the OVO policy?
Has the Act been published for all to see - in order that we can become aware of these Laws and avoid a public hanging?
I am trying my best to stay within the Law regarding this subject, but I am finding it increasingly difficult when those who have voted in favour of (and compel observance to it) cannot provide sufficient evidence for its enactment. Nor can they provide imperitive evidence for its obedience! In another thread I asked for guidence as to whether a record I have is a bootleg or orig. The diversity in the responses has left me with no clear indication as to whether I am allowed to play it at an event???
Furthermore, the masses do not seem to give two hoots; as is it does nothing to protect thier rights - in fact it infringes on thier rights to hear certain songs unless they are at a venue where the DJ is rich enough to be able to purchase a copy.
Does anyone else think this is a clear case whereby - THE LAW IS AN ASS
NB: I have recieved one reply to this post - it came as no surprise the guy/girl is a DJ. nothing wrong with the reply, we are all entitled to our opinions. It did however strengthen my suspicions
p.s. why is an oldie described as 'same old, same old' if one DJ plays it - but is a 'forgotten gem' or 'lesser played' when onother DJ gives it a spin?
p.p.s. The Emperor's new clothes
As I tried to say on the other thread just before Mike wisely locked it, the other view on this is if you have to ask you shouldn't be allowed within 100 miles of DJ decks. There are no laws, no rules just an understanding of how it always was and how many think it should be regarding playing out on the Northern scene. The original only debate, as f****ing mindnumbingly boring as it is now, has nothing to with the debate on youth coming into scene in my opinion, just another smokescreen for wanabee DJ's desperate for any route in. You either get it or you don't, you clearly don't.
I appreciate there many scenes within the scene nowadays, and even more DJ's, do what you like at your local scenes for local people but don't try and belittle many years of peoples times and energy just because you don't get it.
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What relevance is the radio part to hiding someone's identity?? Surely radio is about highlighting the artists and their work, I think on global sales it could make 100% of a difference if noone can get a copy due to the hiding of the identity..
I love cover ups, they are a huge, important and fun part of the Northern scene, but for new releases its a complete insult to the artist and to people buying new music, where the motivation (as well as getting good music) has to be different. If you choose to play new music then surely part of the role has to be to publicise it, increase sales, and threfore the likelihood of more new music being played and, most importabntly, being released.
I don't get your argument at all.
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This just sums up how f***ed up the local scene for local people is. F**k sake a not very good record being covered up as by a very not good artist. I just scene (pun intended) a real soul record go past my window on a flying pig looking for a venue to stop at!! Anyone playing this covered should now confess and, after being only partially forgiven, be passed to Brett Franklin and his Ravens for suitable punishment.
I am going back to my Jaheim CD, its more relevant to Northern Soul (and its not relevant at all in case you don't get the irony!!).
FFS Another triple gin quick.
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Have to agree with Mr Hampsey, its a very poor imitation.
If you want a better "modern" psuedo-house record go for his earlier single Helping Hand, much better single and doesn't have to live up to the perfection that is the Staple singers.
At least you didnt ask about the horrendous Way Of Life version that used to be played at early Southport which is possible the worst record ever (although there are many contenders for that!!)
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I have no doubts there mate, lots passed through people like yourselves hands back then that is only slowly gaining favour now, to very little credit often!
Just finished sorting out my 30 records for tomorrow, don't think I will be catching the 8am train somehow!
See you tomorrow Mr Hampsey, really looking forward to it.
Cheers
Jock
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My old "Sunny & The Sunliners" cover up from early 80's.
Never really took off back then... but I've heard it played out a few times recently.
Seen a Demo for £50 a couple of months ago.
Sean
Didn't know it had been played then Sean, great record.
It took me quite a while to get one to be honest, great record, revived by Andy Whitmore and now the rest of us are following Mr Whitmore (how many times has that been said - or should have been said more likely!!)
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Yes I have,
From memory, although I know I've read it somewhere, when the record was originally played both sides where played as cover ups (I'm sure Dave Thorley was one of the DJs) by different DJs
Can't remember that Dave, just remember TML being the sound at main venues. Colin Law did play TRT at later stages a few times but it was well uncovered by then, can't actually remember it ever being covered up but somedays can't remember my middle name so it more than likely was covered up, anyone confirm!
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Betty Harris - Im Evil Tonight
in Look At Your Box
Cheers Steve, I am without sound on PC at moment but will grab a listen when fixed.