https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pfjm8r6KpBA

to settle a debate:

only discography I can find has this release as 1953 (sir shambling says 55), but it sounds 60s to me.

same discography has fabulous playboys 'honky tonk woman' as 1962, which also sounds later to me, being almost funky.

label looks mid -late 60s too.

incredibly ahead of its time label or incorrect discographies....?

my guess is they've gone off the catalogue numbers

I'd say definitely 60s -

 

All other records I've seen on that label have been 60s  - O'Jays, Fabulous Playboys (x2)

 

I think Sir Shambling might be mixing it up with this Apollo Records (Eddie Bo's early 50s releases were on it....) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Records_%281944%29

The navy-blue labeled Apollo Records of the early 1950s, with Eddie Bo, Solomon Burke, The Larks, Five Royales, Casanovas, Keynotes, Cellos, etc. was the SAME company as the yellow -streamlined labeled Apollo Records of the early 1960s, with The O'Jays, Fabulous Playboys, Little Anthony, etc., and it operated continuously from 1944-1962.  Their house music publisher was Bess Music, named after the owner, Bess Berman.  It appeared on most of their cuts on both label styles.  The newer yellow label with the black circle also reprinted many early '50s Apollo records in the early '60s, and even 1940s Gospel records by Mahalia Jackson.

 

Both sides of the King Richard sound early '60s to me.  1202 was a Little Joe Cook that sounds more early '60s to me than early/mid '50s.  I didn't see the newer, yellow circle label design until the early '60s.  The late 1100s (Larks, etc.) were all originally on the original blue cameo label design, with some repressed later, in the early '60s, for the vocal group harmony oldies crowd. 

 

I think the problem with Apollo is that they screwed up their various number series.  Their 100 to high 300s were a Jazz and Gospel series during the 1940s and early '50s, while their 1000-1199 series of R & B and Blues ran from 1948-1952, and their continuation R & B started started in the mid 300s with 1953, and ended at 825 in late 1962.  I believe they started a new series in 1962 at 1200 that continued right after 825, as both the King Richard and Little Joe Cook sound a LOT more like 1962 than like 1955 or 1953. 

Edited September 19, 201410 yr by RobbK

Thanks.

bit strange that such an expert (sir shambling) would believe that such a great but archetypally 60s deep soul side as that could be from 1955.

that surely would count as one of the most ahead of it's time releases ever and possibly the first soul record, the sentiment of it being completely secular.

.

I was around, buying R&B and Soul records all through the period, 1953-1960.  I just don't remember ANYTHING like the early-'60s style "I'm Not Ashamed" before 1960-62.  Nothing sounded remotely like that instrumentation in 1953-55.  The same goes for the slower bluesy side, but that MIGHT have been before its time, thus possible.  But not the other.  The O'Jays' and Fabulous Playboys' sound from late 1961/beginning of 1962 were well ahead of their time, because of Don Davis' studio and modern production methods.  He had worked with Mike McLean and Robert Bateman in Motown's studio, and knew what he was doing.  "Honky Tonk Woman" could even be mistaken for a 1965 recording, but was recorded near the end of 1961, in the same session as "Forget The Past", and was released as their 2nd DaCo/Apollo issue, in early 1962.

Absolutely Robb, had 'honky tonk woman' down as 65/66 with that scratchy funk guitar. Outragous for 61, cheers for the info

Absolutely Robb, had 'honky tonk woman' down as 65/66 with that scratchy funk guitar. Outragous for 61, cheers for the info

We KNOW that "Honky Tonk Woman" COULDN'T have been recorded as late as 1965 or 1966, for the following reasons:

 

(1)Robert West's original Falcons had had their contract problems and quit/been fired -broke from West, and he had changed the name of another of his groups (The Playboys/Fabulous Playboys to The Falcons, in late 1964.  They had been recorded as The Falcons on "Has It happened To You Yet" on Lupine, and on several cuts released on Atlantic, already in 1964. 

 

(2)DaCo Records only existed in 1961 and the very beginning of 1962. By early spring, 1962, DaCo had morphed into Thelma Records and issued releases by The Distants, Alberta Adams, Roger Wade, Will Hatcher, Magnificent Seven, Emannuel Lasky, etc.  "Honky Tonk Woman" was a DaCo production, produced by Don Davis.

 

(3)By mid 1965, Don Davis had already left Thelma for Ed Wingate's Golden World/Ric Tic/Wingate Records, and was replaced as Thelma's A&R man by Joey King Fish (and other producers, Clay MacMurray, Don Juan Mancha and James Goffphine).

 

(4)"Honky Tonk Woman" was released on Apollo Records.  Apollo Records ceased operations in mid 1962.  They weren't releasing records even in 1963. let alone, 1965 or 1966.