jocko

Only ever been Ian Sims or 'Simsy' on here over the past 7 years or so..

I think Dave Rimmer was right when he said you should have your real name displayed. 'Hoochycoo65', I mean wtf? I can't have a proper debate with a name like that!

Great idea Frank!

I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, even now whilst typing I still don't know why I am?

Just recently was record store day, and the collector in me wanted to purchase the Fame box set by Kent/Ace. So along I went to Soul Brothers Record Shop in Putney. Upon the counter was a small box of 7" vinyl, so as you do you have to look through them. In the box were various Kent, Outta Sight, Hit & Run, Soul Bros and assorted recent vinyl releases. Now amongst these were some great tunes, some of which I may already have on old boots, some on cds, some I already own on originals, but and this is a big but! None of them got me as excited as the original 7" Sam Dees on Atlantic on the shelf behind the counter. Whilst looking through them I thought to myself, I wish this was one of the sales boxes from the 100 Club instead. I realised that I would have much preferred to be looking through a box of records costing between £20 to £200+ (of which I can only afford the lower end of the scale), than to a box of, how can I put this, manufactored/tailored releases for the (northern) soul scene and in some ways felt disappointed. One particular record that stuck in my mind was Two Plus Two on a Velgo lookalike. When I first started on this site about 8 years ago, I saw an original of this listed on Ebay and mentioned it on here. I'd never heard the track before, having only recently started to buy records again after some 15 years or so. The record went for over 2 grand, I was seriously out bid, let alone out of touch. That record for me is for when I win the lottery and as such I won't buy the reissue, whether it's legitimate or not. That is my choice and it has nothing to do with whatever one person thinks is right or wrong, it is solely my decision.

Now just recently I've been trying to obtain all the Kent 7" releases (Town/Select/Gusto Etc), so I'm not against buying them, some of the previously unreleased stuff in my opinion would have to be classed as originals. In some respects this may make me appear to be somewhat hypocritical, but I can live with that.

There are arguements for both sides as to what should or shouldn't be played out, whether that be originals or reissues/boots. This debate will always resurface (unfortunately) , but getting back to what I think the original topic starter was saying or attempting to say, is there a market for so many re-issues? I know the Kent Select are limited to about 500, but what about the others? If there are so many dancers as opposed to collectors/dj's, how many records are sold from each run? Do some labels persist in releasing non-sellers just to keep their name in the spotlight? A bit like Tesco opening up 6 stores say in 1 square mile, like flooding the market and ensuring punters return time after time, regardless if they actually need the stuff?!

As for who play's what and where, I really couldn't give a monkey's anymore. I do what I want, I go where I want, when I want (or in most cases can)! I'm at an age now where I have my own set of priorites/rules, but respect the fact that others views are different. It's called freedom of choice and I choose the right to exercise mine.

I think I love you.

...yet the very presence of your post provides evidence to the contrary...

Fair point on that, oh prickly one.......

Is Roger a fellow Scouser?

As you will see from his response he is in denial!

Just ask to see his pictures from back in the day with tache, some will say its complete proof!

I do think nowadays it would be good to have peoples names on their profile somewhere, I do sign my more contentious posts with full name, though suspect large chunk know it already, it appears on a number of dartboards I believe.

I am more embarrased in real life since swathes of people, some good friends now only know me as this, which was kinda cute at first but sometimes now confusing. It took my mother 20 years to allow people to call me Jock, so Jocko would definitely be stretching it...

James Horatio Ignatius O'Connor, aka Jock

Great tuneage "Just in the nick of time"-old spin/rave for Robin Salter and that super soul music guru from Derby Mr Ady Connelly..... it was played out during those soulful early 80s....am sure its a non 45/12" and was faded out after bout 3:30 mins - Robin S will defo verify if it was an album only release....The whole album is ace NYC super smooth 70s group soul Produced and Arranged by Mr Patrick "PAP" Adams and Greg "Red Greg" Carmicheal ...nuff said !!!

ktf

tfk

mmmm now realising just how good those TDK C90 Cassettes were that we use to exchange ???

Yes another that got away, if you have a spare I will up my offer by £3.50 to £15 and we can add it to that bill I have with yours that looks as enforcable as a Ticketus agreement........

Whether he makes sense or not there still isn't going to be a rational discussion on this topic. In the US it would be like arguing gun control or abortion, there isn't going to be a resolution. Either way we agree this topic is not useful.

But at least you would shoot each other over the argument, adds a little spice to getting involved.....

He doesn't seem to make sense either Bob and a few of his comments are inaccurate and the Shrine ones total nonsense.

Like you say this topic has been done to death so if you are going to comment or attempt debate then you have to put up a convincing arguement with facts that are accurate.

And sparkling lack of intro and only posting on this makes me smell wind up. Get your mods hat on and twist his gonads to get an iD please.

My suspicions are deepened by the fact It is too early in day for care in the community to have access to their computers surely.......

Heaven forbid anyone should simply buy and play their music in the format of their own choice without being more concerned about what everyone else is or isn't doing, eh Mike?

Probably too simple a concept to grasp.

I was going to come round to that Scouse house you live in and take the wooden spoon away from you but latest posts have reduced my will to live and can't believe I read this thread again. Off to ogle album covers and 45 labels again, preserve my relative sanity.

Dig in and kick Mr W, they all deserve it for getting involved in this one, again.. :D

legal reissue's and boots' i hate them all ' originals only for me cheap or rare and expensive.

Yes very good, living proof that as many people arguing for as against dont actually get "it" either these days.

Nurrssee pass my meds.

And Memphis in the top ten, take a bow Kent! It really is an amazing time for availability of music, I am loving your stuff Ian but Kent are just so fantastic at moment hopefully you don't mind me mentioning it.

Hopefully all on here buying both...........

Calm down, calm down. :lol:

And what was that you were saying about stereotypes Denis!

A serious part to this topic is about the fact these are all complete rip offs, which in Pete's more innocent world we didn't probably really get or have the information at our hand, but surely the more interesting slant to this question is the impact they have on legit reissues and CD's, which also werent around in times Pete talks about, and therefore why people buy these so knowingly in current times?.

Is it just to dj with, or is because people only want to buy vinyl, do people buying the big ticket items also buy all the Kent etc CD's and the legal reissues?

It would also be interesting to hear people like Ady and Tony's perspective on how/if damaging it is to their world.

This sort of discussion for me has some legs, not the should they be played etc.

its not rubbishing 'people'....it is rubbishing a statement that you know is rubbish. But you only post behind me to have a pop like you always do .... you my friend are the person who rubbishes people. We all know the scene was not built on orig only .. far from it .... "and if you dont know that it is not worth explaining" .... isnt that the bog standard reply from the 'in crowd'?

I post behind a number of people because I disagree with certain things, I like to think I also articulate why I disagree, (you should try it sometime) as I did above. Occasionaly I rubbish some theories and opinions that I disagree strongly with and are not based around fact, however rarely the people, not that hard to check and prove me wrong if you really want to .....

Your misguided ego on my following you around rather than just being tired with the same old same old is sweet, but boring. Not that hard to evidence on here just how wrong you are is it.

If its not worth explaining, its not worth debating, The chap has responded very eloquently and succintly, and is a rather spiffing answer, one that many of us would hang our hat on and should arguably be the last word on this and maybe should be hung up as good guide to the answer.

Surely you should do the same if you are going to pull up a newish poster. Its nice to be nice.

And as for Denbo's question, surely its all about supply and demand, i.e. its cheap to source and lots of people see no reason not to spend £10 on something dodgy rather than buy the same on CD, SWONS and all that, Never really go on E-Bay these days so suspect I am blind to the majority of this these days, the demand is obviously there and its all for Charidee so whats not to like.......

which record label are we talking about here ???

I suspect it is Shrine

What a shame that Eddie Singleton isn't here to defend himself against slander like that.

That was my first thought, closely followed by it would be nice of poster to articulate his logic behind his assumption!

I said i wouldn't get involved in stuff like this again but i cannot keep letting people use quotes like this and run the risk of people believing the rubbish some would like us to believe.

When, oh when will people wake up to the fact that it is not what the scene has always been about. Please, get your facts right before trying to brainwash others into this nonsense

So why getting involved then, other than to rubbish people on here, again.

I actually agree with you to a certain extent but suspect we have very differing logic behind our rationale, surely if you are getting involved you need to explain to a new poster why he is wrong.

Although personally I think someone making the "charity circuit" type plea post as his first should be made to stand in middle of room in a chair and give his real name, his number and 3 forms of id to prove its not a wind up.,

Unless someone is willing to give real thought to this and add something new , lets not go there again. The funny shoe man says it all really above surely and sums it up perfectly, is there anything else to add?

Good man Clifford, that will be my Sunday listening, with hopefully the hangover of all hangovers.

Hope you and the scary one are well, will be good to catch up at Cleggy, mines is a bacon roll!

Leon Bryant. Mighty Body(hotsie totsie). Just remembers me some of looks on punters faces on the dance floor at Wigan when it was first played by Searling and co.

Picked it up on ebay cheap and will give it a wee spin now and again when ave got my modern box out, brings back good memories

Is that Mr Doonan by any chance? Too many coincidences surely. Nothing guilty in that pleasure mate, you always had good taste. Nice on a 7" if you have this, only LP for me,

Remember his other one Just The Way You Like It? Even better, I have that on a nice 7" UK./

With an even better flip side, used to play that, What a great record that not aware has had its day, too common and all that one suspects, but at this price its a snip.

Love 'Suddenly', and 'Down in the Valley' he has some great stories in book I was reading some time ago, as always I have a crap memory for names, but it spoke about him being a Minister while in the recording studio's at Atlantic, supposedly there was a steady stream of parishioners seeking his blessing in between takes..

Also mentions the gig to get at theaters was not only to perform, but get the right to sell refreshments in between the shows, that's where they made their money. There is one occasion where he orders a colossal amount of Popcorn, and half the city is feasting on the stuff...

I'll pull it out cause its one of the best bits or reading on him I've seen..

Mal.C

I think it is probably Nowhere to Run by Gerri Hirshey, pretty sure that has a section on him. It is mentioned in a few books, but that is great as it is generally the artists telling their story if I remember rightly. Unless you mean a book on SB, in which case would love to get details.

I saw him live a couple of times over last 10 years, and he still had a voice, even though he could hardly walk.

Fantastic singer, Cry To Me is hard to beat but there are some great stuff, love his Bell releases. Wonderful singer, fantastic character!

Ehh no, the decks have pitch control to allow you to seamlessy mix, beat perfect, the outro of one record into the intro of another, bloody hard to do with soul music or less of a tempo so would love to hear you lot try!! Leave it to masters like the much maligned on here Colin Curtis, suspect he could teach you a thing or two when it comes to that!

Otherwise the answer is no as you are obviously papering over cracks in your collection, yes you Mr G its a well known fact you need even more records, and need to try harder to choose the right set of records.

And anyone mentioning Soul Essence, -4 and no sleep for 2 days will get a toe where the sun don't shine!

It is a bright Green label (lovely colour) with one eye from a dragon as a logo. Everything on it is brilliant, and written by O. Thello but impossible to find, therefore I am annoyed by anyone who has anything on the label that I don't.

Glad to be of help.

haven't got a link. just saw an article about it in a mag that it is in production.

If it was same article as I saw it was in Mojo mag well over a year ago, and it had an email address for copies but I never got an answer from them ,would be keen to get details if there are more up to date contact details.

Soulpersona's contemporary music is very good also and worth a listen, as long as you are not looking for Northern soundalikes....

£í¢"š¬í¢"š¬

They were defo played before but i don't remember them being termed that until I heard guy playing Tommy Navarro at Stafford and that turned me on to playing them.

I was sure I remembered reading the term in one of the fanzines, I thought possibly BB with Randy or Cockney Mick, hopely Steve G can remember, but on reflection think you might be right on more general use, and no doubt it would have been those deep soul fans in the making, Binsy etc, that were there or thereabouts.

Dave Molloy used to always put some crackers on Northern tapes at that time too that would fit the bill, as did Eddie Hubbard but he put them on his deep tapes, I in later years sniffed them out for future dancefloor potential as Beat Stompers, the sound of the late 80's.

Quite right Jocko.

But "The Drifter" was an "ender" before the term "beat ballad" was used on the NS scene.I was trying to get to when the first biggie was played slap bang in the middle of a niter,and accepted as such.

At Clifton Hall, Ray Pollard wasn't played as an ender, it was played much earlier, although definitely not bang in the middle of the night, as the Preston Street dancers and that Funky Hunk, Sean Hampsey, would have had trouble adapting their dance styles and whistle blowing to that tempo. And somone mentioned Barbara McNair, that was definitely played in middle of a set at Rotherham although personally would say that is maybe a beat or two above a ballad.

And agree I don't remember the term ever being used for them in those days.

Certainly by I started djing more, about 86 onwards, there were numbers of them being played all over. Although again whether they all qualify as Beat Ballads or are a bit too fast.

E.g. Marva Josie, Jack Montgomery Barracuda, Tony Colton. Clyde McPhatter? All tunes I "adopted" from the big boys so had been played before 86 I suspect.

£í¢"š¬í¢"š¬

Gone off the subject a bit now though, the question appeared to be in a world dominated by uptempo stompers, which was the first beat ballad, so we're talking about the 70's Northern Soul scene here. Everyone would acknowledge things like I'm Gonna Miss You and Hey Girl Don't Bother Me were slower records that were played, but when NS was at it's peak, there were not many slow records played at all. I remember writing about the "beat ballad phenomena" in around 1989 so before Stafford, they are very thin on the ground.

Cmon then Pete get the article up, given timing that would be very interesting reading for me, and I suspect our Southern compadres were definitely spinning a few by then.

I only came along late 70's, being much older than I look obviously, but totally agree they were thin on ground then, but suspect even at late Wigan there were a couple more, just can't think of any at the moment.

Barbara McNair via Brian Rae is a good shout for then, but is it a BB?

The Drifter, if not end of Wigan definitely Clifton Hall?

All depends how fast you walk then, or how long or short your legs are

Seriously, a lot of the stuff on here (especially what I've posted) I consider 'slowie' records. They are tunes I wouldn't usually play out as a rule although I have done (albeit years ago when there was more of a call for the slower tempo).

No comments on the leg sizes!

Ah yes the good old days when Maurice Long I Don't Love You Anymore was a stomper compared to some of my other plays. Does that fit the bill? 99% of the stuff on here is nowhere near a ballad for me, quite amazing the change in current day scene views I suspect.

I do think in amazement of some of the slow stuff I got away with***, mostly at Allanton admittedly, and suspect I would be talking in a very high pitched voice if I even tried it in current times. Like lots of things right time right place I suppose back in the day for some slower things at loads of venues, and it was the exception rather than the rule, despite how some of those tempo terrorist try to rewrite history.

*** And yes I know nobody payed a blind bit of attention to what I played after 6, just no need to say it out loud, okay!

I will have a dig tonight and think of some of the stuff I got away with, back in the day, sure if Old Man Walls is reading it, he will remind me of some, he used to moan enough about them at the time.....