Posts posted by Mace
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Big shame it's not still going....it was BRILLIANT !!!
Well, it still is going, though obviously with a much more 'user friendly' music policy Rod.....and not in the terms of an purely out and out overplayed top 500 oldies fest either (despite the odd ill informed rumour)....numbers are back up and the music is still top notch stuff....the feedback for August 4th on Facebook looks very promising...
As for the nighters original format.....well it certainly had its moments of brilliance Rod, morseo in the first 4 years or so, but rose tinted specs aside, the last 12 months were on the whole, poorly attended.
Truth is, 60 payers in a 200+ capacity does not make a brilliant event (whatever your state of mind) or pay the necessary bills, nor does it make the venue any respectable bar takings.
On top of which, other nighters had started adopting a similar music policy for 2nd rooms and they can afford to offset any financial shortfall off the main room doortake.....the nighter calender is choc-a-bloc as it is, but at least the event used to be different enough to survive on it's own merits.
Regards
Mace
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Edited by Mace
Said venues were prestatyn and bidds..........now as we're told (rightly so) to have a listen to these genres before we make up our mind.....the fact that he,s a funk dj playing sets of funk is not the point because neither of these venues are billed as funk venues so who's losing the plot........my point is these sets killed it at soul nighters because in a whole set they become very durgy it,s not georges fault it,s a matter of the genre being wrong (in a whole set form) so therefor it don,t fit, in the context of chalky's question....yes it,s a case of emperors new clothes............and thats the point everywhere just because it,s new to your ears and a few folk love it played out.........it,s not right at soul dance venues except for the funk edged stuff (ala karl) that is right to cross over. Thats why very few of these venues can really get off the ground.
p.s....f**k me even georges mates left while he was playing at prestatyn
Terry, George was booked for Bidds when I was running it as an Upfront /Anything goes event...which definately included funky soul / soulful funk (call it what you like), as well as Northern, R&B, Latin etc
He was booked to play what ever he wanted to play, and if he chose to play a funk heavy set then so be it.
He did 2 x half hour sets approx 4 hours apart if my mind serves me right......can't be arsed to go check the DJ times but that's how it usually worked out.....the majority of folk attending Bidds knew that the night was then about many mixed genres (yourself included), it was advertised in this way and it most certainly didn't need to be advertised as a funk nighter for 2 half hour guest spots.
Ultimately, if hearing 2 x half hour sets of stuff you don't know/don't like upsets you so much you surely should be sticking to oldies only events, or those venues you feel comfortable with?
I obviously didn't instruct or coach him to play anything other than his own choices Terry, so if it helps in any way you can feel free to lay the blame at my door......some folk may feel at ease trying to convince less predictable DJs to 'tow the line' before DJing at their favourite venues
...... but I certainly wasn't prepared to do the same at Bidds.
Was my policy for letting DJs do their own thing the main reason for the Upfront nights eventually failing at Bidds....was it my DJ line-ups or the set times I arranged.....?
Maybe, maybe not, to be honest I don't really care either way....what's done is done.....I ran the venue this way for 6 years, the first 5 of which were pretty successful, so I'm quite happy with my lot.
I've obviously since had to review the music policy at Bidds to a more Northern friendly nighter, and whilst I would have preferred to carry on with my original ethos for the night, since viewing these types of thread to often witness such predictable infighting amongst those who champion hearing 'something different', I feel quite relieved to be removed from it all.....
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Good point, Mace.
Many licensees probably don't have specific permission to reproduce logos and trademarks but they usually do it without meaning to infringe or offend.
With licensing I often try to obtain additional rights to use the names and likenesses of labels (as well as artists) so I can use them if needed and also allow my licensees to use them. I can do that with Quinvy, Harthon and Creative Funk etc. To do that without permission would be wrong and usually it's just a case of making a polite request.
But your point is even more interesting when it comes to bootlegs because in many countries the laws which exist to protect against the unauthorised use of names, images and trade marks are stronger than the laws which protect against infringement of musical copyrights.
For someone to bring a claim for copyright infringement it's necessary (but sometimes difficult) for them to first prove they are in fact the rightful owner. It's often easier to prove you are the owner or an authorised user of a trade name or trade mark than it is to prove you are the owner or the exclusive licensee of a specific recording which may have been made almost fifty years ago or whenever. That's a long time for people to keep all paperwork needed to prove the chain of title etc.
The result is that bootleggers are sometimes prosecuted for infringement of trade marks rather than for unuathorised reproduction of music. At the end of the day it's poetic justice, a bit like the police bringing a general conspiracy case against someone because they don't have enough evidence of the specific crime.
Even here in the UK agencies such as Trading Standards have more power when a trade mark has been infringed. And that's why I'm amazed when bootleggers are careless enough to press 45s on labels such as Motown, for example, which is a well protected trademark in all territories.
So if I ever bootleg a record it will probably be on a fake label called Hits-U-Like or something like that.
As for the question about copyright eventually ceasing in trade marks after a while, I'm sorry I don't know the answer to that but I suspect constant modifications and re-registrations can ensure the rights are protected for as long as required.
Paul
Interesting stuff, thanks for the indepth reply Paul.
Regards
Mace
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As this topic is about bootlegs, I think we should try to distinguish between bootlegs and authentic issues / reissues.
Most soul bootlegs are either pirates on fake or unauthorised labels or counterfeits which copy or emulate the original label, sometimes with the intention of misleading buyers.
But counterfeits are often called repros these days and that can be confusing because some legitimate companies issue or reissue 45s in repro label styles. There's an important difference but at times it's difficult for any of us to really know if a particular 45 is legal or not.
The most obvious example of a UK company which uses a variety of repro label styles rather than their own generic label is Outta Sight, as discussed in this topic and elsewhere recently. It's no surprise that some people confuse some of Outta Sight's repro label 45s with bootleg 45s, that's bound to happen.
From what limited knowledge I have and from specific dealings with Outta Sight and their manufacturers / distributors Passion (who also handle the Expansion, Soul Brother and Go Ahead labels), I'm sure the repro label 45s issued by Outta Sight are legitimate. They license masters from companies such as Sony, Universal and Demon etc - companies which I have dealings with myself.
As for my personal views, I'm not keen on repro label 45s in general (apart from the risk of them being confused with bootlegs) and I don't usually like UK 45s which are dinked just to look American. And I'm not very keen on 45s which feature unrelated artists on each side, it's sometimes unavoidable and it's obviously good value for money but it just doesn't appeal to me for some strange reason. We all have difference tastes.
As for the original vinyl debate, I don't have strong views about it myself and I've DJd all my life until about ten years ago, playing music new and old on various formats. It's each to his own, of course, but context is the important thing so it obviously depends on the event; it would be insulting to play reissues at a defined rare soul event.
If cassette tapes ever become popular with DJs we could have endless debates about Dolby B.
Paul
Paul, putting the actual music to one side for a second, there is one area of lookalike repros that I have often wondered about.
Does the use the lookalike labels, or labels which emulate the original labels, break any laws regards artistic design of the original label...... and if so has anyone ever been sued or likely to be sued for such ?
Also, if applicable, would such (label) artistic license be subject to the same 50 year rule that supposedly restricts the illegal copying of the actual music?
Regards
Mace
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There is an Ex- copy on Chris Andertons site, has a soundfile so you can check for yourself if suitable or not.
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I've been on it this morning and just had a message from them saying I can't have any other queries today unless I cough up approx $18 for 6 months. Anyone else had this?
Ady
At least you got some sort of response from your enquiry....I'm still waiting for a reply from you regards my PM sent over a week ago
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Davie, I know you've never liked it, and your opinion on whether it's good, bad, or indifferent is as valid as anybody elses.
However, to presume and comment that it's never had an 'immediate' effect on the dancefloor is just simply incorrect.
Andy Dyson filled the floor with it as a cover-up at Bidds (the first time I heard it) and not long after Flanny did the same at Middleton.
I first played my copy at one of the Xmas events at Weston-Super-Mare and it instantly filled the floor to a cross section of dancers, most of whom had never heard it before......I know this to be a fact by the size of the queue at the decks after it finished to try and see what it was.
In fact, it was quite a while before I gave it any spins on the R&B / Mod scene, and no-one else was spinning it on those scenes prior to then (not that I'm aware of anyway)
I remember playing it to Callum & Mik Parry down at Carole & Al Forteys house when it was still covered up...Callum made me play it about a dozen times on the trot (bit like the teletubbies...'again, again, again'...)...bless him!
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I've always felt with the JT Parker that if people didn't already know it they wouldn't dance until the chorus kicked in, it's not immediate like i think a good R&B tune should be...all that is of course opinion
Davie, you couldn't be more wrong old chap.....the record has had instant dancefloor appeal from the off.....over a big sound system the intro sounds the dogs and just drags folk onto the floor.
Seen it have the same result at big venue oldies events as well as smaller R&B/Mod events as well...and this was well before it became well known to the masses.
Regards
Mace
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Posted ·
Edited by Mace
The Soulsmen - It's hard but it's fair - Juggy Ex
Got a lovely clean Ex condition copy up for grabs....PM me and make me a tidy offer and it could be yours!
Seems to be in high demand of late......latest copy on ebay just sold for $672....see it on link below (soundclip on ebay auction still working at mo if you don't know it)
https://www.ebay.com/...984.m1423.l2649
I can send label scans mp3s to anyone with serious intentions to buy.
Ta
Mace
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All 45s listed with scans & soundclips and starting at $9.99 each.......
https://www.ebay.com/sch/basementboogaloo2012/m.html?_ipg=50&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Ta for looking!
Mace
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Recently got a vinyl promo copy that I am sure is a boot, but somewhat thrown by Manships pics.
The label looks like pic 447a in the guide (no lines on label), which Manship states as original styrene promo with black text.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards
Mace
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Mace, thanks for that mate...it is true I had to cut down on my pornfun...but I`m back on it now. Can you tell your missus I`ll be round tomorrow with my camera just after the kids have gone to school!
Well, somebody has to subsidise those R&B records you keep buying!
Chris
No worries....don't forget your mouthwash mind...you still need to pass on that Blowie your good lady gave you for getting me to fix your oven....any chance you can wear a blonde wig and some slutty lipstick!
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Edited by Mace
Why not, it's always worth asking the question......mind you, what if the US copy was actually more than the UK dealer had it priced at........would you offer more?
There's always the risk of being hit with Customs/handling charges with the US copy mind.
I must admit I also find it mildly amusing when buyers quote recent Popsike prices if lower than the price you have listed something for...but this never seems to happen if Popsike prices are higher
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Posted ·
Edited by Mace
Mixed US & UK Soul, R&B (Sue / Atlantic / Chess / Excello / Brunswick / RCA / ABC.. etc)
10% discount on orders over £50
15% discount on orders over £100
£20 discount on orders over £200
Postage at cost
No paypal fees
Please PM to reserve
Drifters - If you don't come back - Atlantic VG+ £15
Roy Lee Johnson - Boogaloo #3 - Josie VG+ £10
Aretha Franklin - Rough lover - Columbia Ex £20
Joe & Ann - Runnin' & Foolin' - Hermitage VG+ £25
Ann Cole - Got my mojo working - Baton Ex £25
Roy Head - Just a little bit - UK Pye Ex- £15
Joe Simon - Long hot summer - SS7 Ex £10
Danny White - One little lie - ABC Ex £15
Sylvia Robbins - Don't let your eyes - Sue promo Ex £30
Jimmy McGriff - I've got a woman - Sue Ex £7
Drifters - Drip drop - Atlantic Ex- £15
Slim Harpo - Tip on in - Excello VG+ £7
Jackie Wilson - Fairest of them all - Brunswick Ex £10
Roosevelt Grier - Lover set me free - Battle VG+ £15
Barbara Acklin - Am I the same girl - Brunswick Ex £8
Willie Tee - Walking up a one way street - Atlantic Ex- £15
Justine Washington - I can't wait to see my babys face - Sue VG+ £8
Ben E King - Too bad - UK London Ex £12
Baby Washington - That's how heartaches are made - Sue Ex £12
Ray Charles - Something inside me - ABC VG+ £15
Jackie Wilson - Just be sincere - Brunswick Ex- £10
Jimmy Smith - The cat - Verve Ex £8
Jimmy McGriff - The last minute - Funckler Ex £6
Willie Harper - But I couldn't - Alon VG £6
Little Johnny Taylor - Somewhere down the line - Galaxy VG+ £6
Boots Brown - Cerveza - UK RCA Ex £6
Orlons - The wah watusi - Cameo Ex £7
Eddie Harris - Listen here - Atlantic VG+ £5
Eugene Church - I ain't going for that - Class Ex- £8
Ray Charles - Just about to lose your clown - ABC - Ex £8 (also UK HMV Ex £25)
Young Holt Trio - Wack wack - Brunswick Ex £6
Slim Harpo - Shake your hips - Excello Ex £30
Earl Van Dyke - Soul stomp - Soul VG+ £15
Sonny Boy Williamson - Help me - UK Pye Int R&B Series EX- £25
Fats Domino - If you don'e know what love is - UK HMV Ex £25
John Roberts - Sockin' 1, 2, 3, 4 - UK Sue - VG- £12
Fats Domino - Work my way up steady - Broadmoor promo VG+ £10
Earl Grant - House of bamboo - UK Brunswick Ex £20
Eugene Church - Jack of all trades - Class VG+ £12
Bobby Bland - Blue moon - Duke Ex £10
Ernie Field Orch - Workin' out - Rendezvous Ex- £15
Clyde McPhatter - I never knew - Mercury Ex £15
Slim Harpo - I'm your breadmaker baby - Excello Ex £12
Toussaint McCall - Shimmy - Ronn Ex £10
Little Walter - my babe - Checker Ex £20
Shotgun Express - Curtains / I could feel the whole world.. - US Uptown promo VG+ / Ex- £35
Graham Bond Organization - Wade in the water - US Ascot promo VG+ £25
Freddy King - You're barking up the wrong tree - Federal M- £15
Millie Foster - Ole father time - TCF VG+ £10
Boots brown - Trollin' - US RCA VG £7
Dynamics - Misery - Bigtop M- £12
Slim Harpo - I got love if you want it / I'm a king bee - Excello VG+ £10
Bobby Bland - Wouldn't you rather have me - UK Action VG+ £15
James Brown - Tell me what you gonna do - King M- £12
Young Holt trio - Ain't there something money can't buy - Brunswick M- £15
Slim Harpo - Baby scratch my back - Excello Ex £12
Ronnie Hawkins - southern love - Roulette VG+ £12
Untouchables - Raisin' sugar cane - Canadian Reo Ex £15
Clyde Mcphatter - I'll love you til the cows come home - Mercury promo Ex- £15
Rosco Gordon - Just a little bit - Vee-Jay ex £10
Buddy Guy - I dig your wig - Chess VG+ £15
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How Does Someone Win A Record On Ebay At The Same Price I Bid?
in All About the SOUL
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Edited by Mace
Always bid odd figures, say $56.67 instead of a figure rounded down to nearest dollar, or $5 etc
The other bidders highest bid must have been $55 otherwise it would have incremented higher than your bid of $55.
Also, always bid in last few seconds (use a snipe site to be sure) and always bid your max amount that you are happy to pay.
Bidding early just pushes final price up and encourages any watching snipers to bid higher to allow for extra interest.
Only time to bid early is if the starting bid price is very low and/or seller seems unaware of true value/rarity of record due to poor description, or artist/title spelling mistakes etc
Bidding early may then prevent someone else offering seller a fixed price to take item off auction listings....in this case just bid same as starting bid price then put a snipe on for final bid amount.
Regards
Mace