boba

Hi. Today on my radio show I interviewed two members of the Magnetics. The Magnetics are the first group I've interviewed from Cabrini Green (the North Side Chicago housing project most famously depicted in the TV sitcom "Good Times"). The group formed in the late 50s and were neighbors and classmates with the Impressions, Billy Butler and the Enchanters, and artists like Major Lance and Jerry Butler. Johnny McKinney was originally from Albion, Michigan and first recorded as a solo artist for Chicago's Mad label in the late 50s and recorded for New York's Clock record label in 1960. Johnny met the Magnetics in the late 60s and became the replacement for their lead who was drafted and killed in Vietnam. The group's first recordings were released in the late 60s on the tiny Sable label out of the South Side of Chicago. The group then cut one more record on Calvin Carter's J-V label (his attempt to revive the Vee Jay label from bankruptcy). Johnny McKinney began working in Milwaukee, and ended up playing on the scene and recording two records there as solo artist Johnny Lemac. Johnny continued to be involved with music and still runs McKinney music on the south side of Chicago, where he sells musical instruments and gives lessons. Andrew Griffin also tells interesting stories about growing up in Cabrini Green. Check out the interview at the bottom of my webpage:

https://www.sittinginthepark.com/interviews.html

Thanks for your interest,

Bob

p.s. thanks to John Anderson for the lead and Chalky for sending me audio files to play during the interview and give to the group members.

this a record by a white group ?!

doesn't sound like one to me, label credits are pretty unsuggestive on this matter, though..

sounds definitely white to me, the group has two records on this label right? 1200 pounds seems over the top to me too, but I can't tell you what it changed hands for privately recently so I don't know all the details

I have this one by him,and another one by him somewhere which i can`t find at the moment,

Dave f............

this specific lujuna number comes with 2 b-sides, one is a dark pink label and the other is lighter pink

after buying the brothers of soul blind ,boo 1005 come on back , ive just done it again the steptones on fast track 2502 youre love is like the rising son , any good ? any info appreciated.

kev

it's a decent sweet soul track, also came out on adell with an instrumental flip.

I thought the seller was dreaming, might go back for the 3 albums I saw anyway for the quaintness.

Funny how even the unusual may look as if it is worth a fortune!

the best thing about this auction by far is that the record is described as "77% new"

This Tropics is a white rock group, probably no relation to any soul group of that name if that answers your question?

I didn't think it was related to the carolinas group (who were also white, right?) but I did assume it was a soul record, thanks for the reply.

Just thinking, we know all about Motowns Quality control regarding the Grooves,

However, there are some stunning designs for his Labels.

I wonder who was behind this,

Obviously Gordy as a name for a label speaks for Itself,

and the Design is stunning, as are the others V.I.P., Tamla etc.

He set off with the Tamla & Motown Striped Labels,

AND THEN ?

I just wonder who was responsible for the later Designs, and the Names.

Was Gordy pulling every string, Including the finer points of Label Design,

I Wonder!.

Rob Klein, who isn't on this forum but who is on soulfuldetroit soul-talk and some other forums, was an artist at motown (I think he did LP cover art) in the 60s. He would probably be a good person to answer your question...

Just "inspected" the label a bit further..As a Ron Nichols labour it has a po box in Ohio but was based in and with a NYC adress

So indeed it could as well be an Ohio group as a NYC group...

Marc

Marc, this is an ohio group, the group members are known.

I also found a copy of this in Detroit. I got mine in 1991 at Street Corner Music in Ferndale, MI. Later sold it to Carl Willingham.

I had always thought that these Moments (on Hog) were the same Moments that recorded on the Detroit label "Hit Productionsl" amongst others"

But I bow to your awesome knowledge Rob, as the name Mizell does appear on the label.

Phil

It says on the liner notes on the back of the wax poetics reissue that the Mizell's (who again were not members of the group) promoted the 45 in detroit and DC. Unfortunately, not in Chicago, so I'll probably never get a copy .

The b-side on Criss Cross is 'Can't Get You Off My Mind' and it's numbered 1001 as well. Is it like an east coast/west coast pressing thing?

no, they are all chicago pressings

this thread is a fantastic source of information to people like myself who only have a little knowledge of this label.

and the few I have picked up have been very cheap and great so its a label to dig into a little more I think.

Can anyone post audio of either side of the tropics record posted above? Thanks

Hi Guys

Two listings below one from Dave Rimmers Site and the other from Indiana 45's. Which is correct ?

The numbering on the two additions, from Indiana 45's is different. Anyone know the whole story.

Dave's listing

Steeltown

101 - The Mellotones - The Drummer / Lonely Man - 1967

105 - Larry Tamblin - This Is The Night / ? - 1967

116 - Lou Washington & The Professionals - Since I've Fallen In Love / Stay Of Execution - 1967

195 - Lou D Washington - Smokey / The Way A Romance Should Be - 1967

207 - Ma Ma's Bootleg Blues Band - Cookin' Up (Soul Stew) / Yummy Yummy - 1967

670 - Maxine Crayton - Don't Take Your Love / You Better Stop - 1967

671 - The Drifters - Peace Of Mind / The Struggler - 1967

681 - The Jackson Five - Big Boy / You've Changed - 1968

682 - The Jackson Five - Jam Session / We Don't Have To Be Over 21 (To Fall In Love) - 1968

683 - ?

684 - The Jackson Five - You Don't Have To Be 21 / Some Girls Want Me For A Lover - 1968

685 - ?

686 - Richard Brown - Sweet And Kind / Don't Listen To The Grapevine - 1968

687 - Robert Lee & The Exquisites - Tears Are Falling / Lisa - 1968

688 - The Ripples And Waves Plus Michael - Let Me Carry Your School Books / I Never Had A Girl - 1968

689 - Gordon Keith - I'll Try To Please You / Don't Take My Kindness For Weakness - 1968

689 - Gordon Keith - I'll Try To Please You / I'll Try To Please You (Instrumental) - 1968

Indiana 45's also credit

2467-Del Chontays-Baby I need you/The Hustle

6710-Ben Brown-Two faces of love/Incognito

I pulled out my gordon keith records.

I have Steeltown 688 - Gordon Keith - I'll try to please you / inst.

I also have Steeltown GK1981 - Tell the story / Don't take my kindness for weakness

The second title is from 1981, I doubt it was released as the flip of an early 70s record.

really appreciate the feedback. Maybe I have it wrong. The only issue is it really is not broadcast that well by Ebay......

Oh well you live and learn. Still now you will try to outbid me!

haha, yeah, it's funny you now posted the item you're bidding on. don't worry, I'm now past bidding on lots of records and blow my money on individual expensive records unfortunately. that seller had the montiques up when he first started listing vinyl (I think he's just dumping his collection), I was the 2nd bidder unfortunately.

thanks for the info.If that is case E-Scum should really make it public. It looks likes scam to me and they, Eaby, are to 'supposed' to lookafter consumer interests!

If it is real then fair play, but it does look fake..

I don't know why it doesn't say it on your screenshot (maybe something about ebay UK), but whenever I click to look at bid history it says exactly what the deal is (I just copied and pasted from the bid history screen):

To help keep the eBay community safe, enhance bidder privacy, and protect our members from fraudulent emails, eBay has changed how User IDs display on the bid history page. Only you and the seller of the item can view your User ID, all other members will see anonymous user IDs, such as x***y.

in amongst his auctions the odd good one does pop up but he overhypes all rest as a general rule.

he mixes in 'repros' (aka doowop bootlegs) with his originals and tries to confuse the buyer with some BS about how you're an idiot if you don't know what 'deadwax markings' are and that you should not ask him if the record is an original or not. He also used to have all his auctions as private so that no one could warn potential bidders about the fraud, although that is a non-issue now that ebay hides bidder identities.

Hi, up for grabs is

The Constellations "Oh Mary" Violet Records. Very tough to find and fantastic R&B 45 ! Hard hitting early group Soul. This is in my current playlist and will stay there as this is just a duplicate I happend to find.

Of course this is the same Constellations.

The track itself can be heard on Goldmines "Rare As Hens Teeth" I think or can be heard via

https://tourdefunk.de/Sounds/marc_mix.mp3

You don`t have to listen to the whole clip of course, the tracks starts at 48.30 min

Record is in great shape and plays ex+. A rare one.

200 UKP or maybe best offer

TIA

Marc

the flip of this is a fantastic doowopy group soul cut, it grew on me even though I usually wouldn't like the sound.

this constellations has no connection to the chicago group (who ended up going to new york and recording on gemini star, etc. ), this group is from Ohio.

Fair enough Bob - I stand corrected!

I apologize if my tone came off as rude, I was also not trying to be rude. Thanks.

Hi Bob!

Thanks for once again posting playlist and sound file for our enjoyment.

Brilliant show as always - my favorite tunes this time being:

Love Potion - This Love

Inner Circles - Mirror Mirror

Brown Sugar Inc. - Sweet love of mine

Aristocrats - Lady love

Jonah's Whale - Sweet dreams

Betty Wright - Pure Love

Double Trouble - To live is to love

Executive Four - I'll make it up

Act 1 - Friend or lover

Image - Spellbound

Ebonys - Life in the country

Delfonics - Think it over

Softones - Extra Ordinary People

Best,

Melismo

Thanks so much for supporting my show and the other people's shows on here. It's good to know that people are listening.

The love potion are from new york and cut a few doowop records. The record I played was originally released as the joytones on coed and later released as the love potion on kapp.

The inner circles is a rare cleveland record. The flip is a psychedelic instrumental that is indemand with funk collectors. The other record on that label is the first record by the elements, which is also really good.

The brown sugar inc. is from north carolina, I think they have a couple other records but no other group soul cuts.

The aristocrats are from Louisville, KY. The track is a dramatics cover (it's the flip of 'get up and get down'). The group toured as the moonglows in the 80s (harvey fuqua and the moonglows are also from louisville). All the group members are dead now. There is a second aristocrats on rondo that is a collectible funk 45 but it's not the vocal group, it's just an extra track the band cut during the session.

Jonah's whale is from seattle, the record I played is a dells cover. Their other record is actually a much better sweet soul cut. There are some pretty ridiculous pictures of the group here: https://pnwbands.com/jonahswhale.html

That double trouble record is a very obscure cincinatti record, pilot master is an AMG label subsidiary. It ends with a crappy guitar jam that I faded out. it's great up until that point.

The executive four 45 is from toledo, the flip is actually better, it's good sweet soul that i'll maybe play in a future show.

the image have a slightly more common but still good 45 on janus called 'betcha didn't know.' lead is charles russell, who is from texas (previously sang with the four dudes / three dudes) and who ended up in LA singing as the new image.

How funny, I only finished typing this one out today, I've not even loaded it onto my site yet.

Mowest

5001 - The Devastating Affair - I Want To Be Humble / My Place - Jan - 1972

5002 - Tom Clay - What The World Needs Now Is Love - Abraham, Martin And John / The Victors - Jun - 1971

5003 - Lodi - Happiness / I Hope To See It In My Lifetime - Aug - 1971

5004 - Suzee Ikeda - Zip - A - Dee Doo - Dah / Bah - Bah - Bah - Oct - 1971

5005 - G.C. Cameron - Act Like A Shotgun / Girl, I Really Love You - Aug - 1971

5006 - Bobby Taylor - Hey Lordy / Just A Little Bit Closer - Nov - 1971

5007 - Tom Clay - Whatever Happened To Love /Baby I Need Your Loving - Oct - 1971

5008 - Thelma Houston - I Want To Go Back There Again / Pick Of The Week - Nov - 1971

5009 - The Commodores - The Zoo (The Human Zoo) / I'm Looking For Love - Mar - 1972

5010 - Not Assigned

5011 - Frankie Valli - Love Isn't Here (Like It Used To Be) / Poor Fool - Feb - 1972

5012 - G.C. Cameron - I'm Gonna Get You - Part 1 / I'm Gonna Get You - Part 2 - Not Released

5013 - Thelma Houston - Me And Bobby McGee / No One's Gonna Be A Fool Forever - Mar - 1972

5014 - The Sisters Love - Mr. Fix - It Man / You've Got To Make The Choice - Mar - 1972

5015 - G.C. Cameron - What It Is, What It Is / You Are That Special One - Mar - 1972

5016 - Syreeta - I Love Every Little Thing About You / Black Maybe - Sep - 1972

5017 - Suzee Ikeda - I Can't Give Back The Love I Feel For You / Mind, Body And Soul - Jun - 1972

5018 - Michelle Aller - Just Not Gonna Make It / Spend Some Time Together - Aug - 1972

5019 - Blinky - For Your Precious Love / So Tired - Jun - 1972

5020 - The Blackberries - Somebody Up There / But I Love Him - Not Released

5021 - Syreeta - To Know You Is To Love You / Happiness - Jul - 1972

5022 - Odyssey - Our Lives Are Shaped By What We Love / Broken Road - Aug - 1972

5023 - Thelma Houston - Piano Man / Me And Bobby McGee - 1972

5024 - Not Assigned

5025 - Frankie Valli - The Night / Sun Country - Not Released

5025 - Frankie Valli - The Night (Mono) / The Night (Stereo) - Aug - 1972

5026 - The Four Seasons - Walk On, Don't Look Back / Sun Country - Aug - 1972

5027 - Thelma Houston - What If / There Is A Fool - Aug - 1972

5028 - The Crusaders - Spanish Harlem / Papa Hooper's Barrelhouse Groove - Oct - 1972

5029 - Lesley Gore - The Road I Walk / She Said That - Oct - 1972

5030 - The Sisters Love - You've Got My Mind / Try It, You'll Like It - Oct - 1972

5031 - Repairs - Songwriter / Fiddler - Oct - 1972

5032 - Kubie - Glad That You're Not Me / Child, He Die - Oct - 1972

5033 - Blinky - T'Ain't Nobody's Bizness If I Do / What More Can I Do - Jan - 1973

5034 - Celebration - A House Is Not A Home / The Circle Again - Not Released

5034 - Celebration - Since I Met You There's No Magic / The Circle Again - Not released

5035 - G.C. Cameron and Willie Hutch - Come Get This Thang / My Woman - Jan - 1973

5036 - G.C. Cameron - Don't Wanna Play Pajama Games / Jesus Help Me Find Another Way - Jan - 1973

5037 - Nu Page - When The Brothers Come Marching Home / A Heart Is A House - Feb - 1973

5038 - The Commodores - Don't You Be Worried / Determination - Jan - 1973

5039 - Martin and Finley - Long Life And Success To The Farmer / Half Crazed - Nov - 1972

5040 - Michael Campbell - Angel Got A Book Today / The People In The Valley - Jan - 1973

5041 - The Sisters Love - (I Could Never Make) A Better Man Than You / Give Me Your Love - Jan - 1973

5042 - Lesley Gore - Give It To Me Sweet Thing / Don't Want To Be The One - Not released

5043 - Martin and Finley - Thinkin' Bout My Baby / Best Friends - not released

5044 - Music Makers - Follow Me - Mother Nature / And I Thought You Loved Me - Not released

5045 - Stoney - Let Me Come Down Easy / It's Always Me - Not released

5046 - Thelma Houston - If It's The Last Thing I Do / And I Never Did - Not Released

5047 - Stacie Johnson - Woman In My Eyes / A Carbon Copy - Not Released

5048 - Art and Honey - Let's Make Love Now / (I've Given You) The Best Years Of My Life - Not released

5049 - Not Assigned

5050 - Thelma Houston - I'm Just A Part Of Yesterday / Piano Man - Mar - 1973

5051 - Michel Legrand / Gil Askey - Love Theme From "Lady Sings The Blues" / Any Happy Home - Not Released

didn't Manship have some weird withdrawn number on auction recently? Also, didn't Scott Cheesebrew (ebay user id soul_digger) have a bunch of weird mowest test presses on ebay recently, some of which were unreleased? I don't know if that info is also included in the info above.

OK, I finally got home and looked at my records and reviewed John's evidence.

The main reason I thought the plain label press was not a first press is because they had already switched to the zodiac logo and I do not understand why they would switch back.

Specifically, I have only ever seen the 1003# as this weird black zodiac label. I don't think it was ever on a plain label.

#1004, Casanova, was by far the biggest hit on the label. I have never seen it on a plain label. I always see it with the regular blue zodiac label:

although I have found it on this weird inbetween sort of label:

By the time 1005 came out, I would imagine they would have already permanently switched to the zodiac signs label.

However, the real reason I assumed it was a reissue was that I have #1020 on this other weird plain label (in addition to the much more common zodiac signs label):

This plain label I definitely think is a reissue. I never looked closely and always thought my #1005 was on this same style of plain label, which would make me think it's definitely a reissue. However, I pulled out my #1005 and it's definitely the same as one of John's scans:

As John notes, it is exactly the same label design as the earlier red label. Mine does have the same ZTSC # as the one with the signs but scrated and not stamped as John notes. I guess I am mostly convinced that John is correct at this point, although it's impossible to tell 100%. I do agree that the plain logo is rarer either way, although I initially assumed it was rarer because most local represses are rarer than the original.

Also, here is another variation not noted above. I have #1005 with the signs label that John posted a scan of, but I also have it with this larger font:

Sorry to cause any confusion.

thanks,

Bob

Every reference I've ever found identifies the Hog group in 1965 as comprising of Freddie Perren, Larry and Fonce Mizell. See 'Soul Specrum' site 2.25.2008. where they review the re issue and make the same statement. I have no idea whether US collectors had knowledge of the record prior to 1993, though I suspect they only took interest when it became rare on the UK soul scene. I've no idea if the people you spoke to were lying or not. In my experience artists are notoriously bad at remembering which songs they recorded or what they sang on. I also have a photo purporting to be of the Hog Moments which identifies the Mizell Brothers.

Rob, I honestly can't believe you're arguing against me at this point. There was even an extensive interview with the Mizell Brothers in wax poetics where they say they don't remember the group members. Why would they say that if they were members of the group themselves? The wax poetics reissue has liner notes in the back describing the story too, so if a magazine somehow reviewed the single and said that the Mizell brothers (who RELEASED the record but who were not members of the group) were in the group, that is not a well written magazine.

Also, I left this off of my original post, but Mark Greene told me that the 4 guys in the photo are the members singing on the first moments stang 45 "not on the outside" -- there was no ray goodman or brown on that record at all.

I will do a radio interview so you can hear it from the source, but it seems silly that you quoting a magazine's review of a reissue that somehow contradicts the text on the back of the picture sleeve of the reissue itself, as well as other far-from-primary sources, somehow trumps a discussion with an actual group member who remembers the tracks, who sang on it, the producers they worked with, etc. I understand that not every thing that an artist says may be fact, but it clearly is much more factual than a 4th hand review of a record single. The references you quote are wrong because they are all repeating the same misinformation, and all contact with the actual sources (including interviews with Larry and Fonce Mizell) directly contradict what you are saying.

Having found the first ever known copy of The Moments 'Baby I want you' on Hog Records in 1993 in a $1 bin at Cappy's Records in Detroit, I did some research into who they actually were. Andy Rix and Rob Thomas found the first acetate but there were no label details on it.Nothing to do with the Detroit group of the same name or the later Stang collection but the Mizell Brothers - Fonce and Larry and Freddie Perren. Larry wrote it. (He would later go on to become a part of The Corporation that wrote many hits for the Jackson 5 among others) Freddie Perren produced it.

Hi Rob. So are you saying that the person I talked to who was a member of the group who told me the other members and who has a photo of the group and who remembers who sang lead on the record is wrong? The same person who even talks about their producer Freddie Perrin on their webpage? Are you also saying that US collectors who owned the record previous to 1993 did not really own the record? And are you also saying that the recent wax poetics reissue of the record where they interviewed the Mizell brothers where even they remembered that they were signed to Stang and the Robinsons' changed the lineup is also wrong?

the diplomats CD is excellant well worth picking up, a terrific group.

recently been playing "honest to goodness" LOUD on the CD. Might try and pick it up on vinyl cheapish.

dylan, you would definitely be into the 3rd world "sure as the stars" shine cut if you don't know it, it's a very nice deep sounding sweet soul cut

I just talked to Mark Greene for a while. The people in this photo ARE the moments on hog:

https://themomentsfeaturingmarkgreene.com/home.html

They were a DC group. He told me he joined right after the Hog 45 was recorded, so it was 3 members on the Hog release, Eric Olfus sang lead. He told me that although he left the stang group early on, that John Morgan from the Hog group was actually a member of the stang group until about 1972 (there were 4 members, along with Ray, Goodman, and Brown). Eric Olfus also sings lead on the Leaders "Anyone Can" on Stax, which, if you read the webpage, are essentially the hog group... Anyways, I'm just sharing, I'm going to try to do a phone interview with Mark a week from Sunday and post it up here. It's interesting that they ultimately WERE connected to the stang group. Thanks.

being pretty much a beginner, I've heard a couple of tunes that really like, but can't seem to find much information about (it may just be me being lazy)- label, price etc and wondered if anyone could help me out;

The Diplomats - Perfect Love

Joanne Garrett - Foolish Me

Baby Washington - It's All Over Bar the Crying

Thanks for the help

diplomats perfect love was never released except on a kent CD. They later did a slower version of the song that was released on 45 on the 3rd world label, it was titled "sure as the stars shine"