Robbk

My orange boot of Marton 1002 has only M -1002-A and M - 1002 B etched onto the trailer.  It has no stamp.  I'm not with my 45s now, but, if I'm not mistaken the Roy Handy and Tamala Lewis Marton 45s both have, in addition to the record catalogue number etched in to the runout M-1001-A, M-1001B, M-1002-A. M-1002-B, - they also have the cut numbers A-109-N, A-110-N, A-111-N and A-112-N etched into the runout.  There are no stamps on my Marton records, as far as I remember.

I never saw an unissued Motown version of the Tamala Lewis, nor the Roy Handy on Marton, nor The Pets on Carnival, nor any Parliaments demo recordings of songs George Clinton wrote for them while with Motown.  However, Don Montgomery (adopted son and nephew of The Vows/Major's/Major IV's Larry Montgomery, told me that he had the Jobete Music acetate of "I Misjudged You" by The Parliaments, that was promised by Miss Ray to George Clinton, to be The Parliaments' first Motown release, but was scratched later, by Berry Gordy, when he closed down Jobete Music's New York office, when Raynoma pressed up Mary Wells' "My Guy" and sold it, and kept the money.  "I Misjudged You" was later recorded by The Parliaments and released on Chocolate City Records. 

We Do know that Alice Clark's  WB release was recorded by Kim Weston.

I have a white one asked about it before

Wasn't the white one also a boot?  I don't remember ever seeing ANY white DJs on The Marton label.

The ears don't lie (except when they DO-just not in this case!).  So, she IS "Caucasian" after all.

Here's a sale of the record for $24.99 (a good value for a great girl's group sound: 

https://collectorsfrenzy.com/details/151072368961/Tawny_Von__Last_NightDont_Say_It_Never_Was_Entre_1966_wpicture_postcard

The sale includes a postcard with her photo on it, plus the signature of the label owner.

I wonder if the photo on the postcard is a bgger version of the one on the stamp?

In the "suits" photo, above, I see what looks to be Little Anthony in the middle.  But, I don't see him in the OP's photo.  Also, the suits look a bit different.  They look lighter in colour in the OP's photo, and the black lapels look thinner and less tapered.  I think they may be 2 different groups wearing slightly different suits.  Several R&B groups wore suits similar to that during the mid to late '50s.  The Flamingos were one.  The platters at one time, and several of the New York groups.  It's really tough to see who those guys are in the OP's photo, as the view is from the side and the lighting is murky on the three on the right side.

Yes, the other photo is The Cadillacs, used for their album.

Here's the original:

Here's the orange boot:

All the boots I know of were the wrong colour.  The most common is the orange label.  the original was a navy blue.  I think there was also a blue boot that was too light (more like powder blue?).

I have a Distants on Thelma with Richard Street's and all the group members' signatures on it.  This was his new group, after Otis Williams, Elbridge Bryant and Melvin Franklin left to join Eddie Kendricks and Paul Williams to form The Temptatrions.

thanks john, i appreciate it. so the final question is -- is she white and is that a piece of her photo on the label or just an unrelated sticker? thanks again.

She certainly "sounds" "White", especially on the "B" side-not as much on the "A" side.  But, as we well know, voices and style of diction can fool you.  Priscilla Page being a prime example of "voice style schizophrenia".

I'm sure I've seen a stock copy of it many years ago.  But that DOESN'T mean it had a regular commercial press run.  That copy was Ron Murphy's.  And he got a LOT of press run test records directly from the Detroit pressing plants (that they had kept for many years).  Those were usually 2 copies kept by the pressing plant, while the 4 other copies were sent to the record companies.  That's how Ron got all those called-back Motown records (including Frank Wilson on Soul).  So, there may have been only 6 stockers pressed.  But, it seems to me that I've seen multiple stock copies of each of those rare Wingates.  So, I'm guessing that all of them were pressed on store stock, with, at least a small press run, locally, in Detroit.

it couldn't possibly look more like a philly pressed record, do you disagree robb? and the fact that she has to be the same person as on millage is just confirmation. i have no idea what city she was actually from.

 

frankie, thanks for your info. anyone else ever seen this sticker? anyone ever seen a pic of tawny?

Yes, the label design looks like a Philadelphia pressing plant job.  And, because it is a tiny company, it's a LOT more likely that it was a local Philadelphia, Philly Metro Area or South New Jersey label. 

I have the Entre record.  I bought it in the early-mid '60s.  It has no sticker on it.   How do you know it is a Pennsylvania label?  What are the clues on the record? 

The reason it's such a good deal is that nobody knows who Berry GORDON is!   Now, maybe a book by Berry Gordy would generate some sales!

It's tough to figure out what the "X" code was used for.  Unfortunately, because I didn't buy most of my Savoys new, but found them in thrift stores and junk stores and oldies bargain bins (albeit during the '50s, but a lot later than their issue), I can't place them accurately chronologically, due to mixing in of the additional factor of there being other differences stemming from pressing plants using different label paper, colouring, label design and fonts.  But, it seems that they went to a new code from X20 to X20X in about 1957.  The double stripes are probably a pressing plant difference, seeming to be an East-Coast feature (but, they only ran a 3-4 year stretch, so there could be a chronological component/factor, as well). 

It's a New York label, so my knowledge of it (as mine of all East Coast and Southern US labels is much less than that of Midwest and California labels, as i had lived in Chicago and L.A, for many years, and picked up a lot more records from those areas(Chicago/Detroit and L.A.), met a lot more knowledgeable collectors from those areas, and met some music industry people in those areas.

We need a New York '50s label expert on this one.   Any of you frequent any R&B/Doo Wop forums?

Originally I thought the The X20 code changed to X20X, when the label colour changed from maroon to red, and the labels lost the circular lines of writing "Not licensed for radio broadcast".   I looked at all my Savoy records.  I have most of the issues from 1128-1197.  All my later, bright red issues have "X20X" on them.  The earlier maroon issues, which also had the text, invariably had just "X20" as the code.  But, I also have a maroon, older looking issue of Savoy 1138 - Wilbert Harrison's "Don't Drop It", which has X20X.  So, the colour change wasn't coincidental with the code change.  I also have a couple with "X20CA" - apparently a press run from California. 

I found this website with a review of a few albums of Powell's.      https://bebopwinorip.blogspot.com/2013_02_01_archive.html

Apparently, he sang a lot of his own vocals, despite also being the featured instrumentalist on tenor sax.  That was fairly unusual for band/orchestra leaders in the 1950s.  

I'm secretly wondering if he didn't really have another male vocalist do uncredited singing, as Ray Pollard did for Hector Rivera and all The Big Bands did ((a la Joe Williams with Count Basie, etc.), and that these new reviews have come so long after the recordings were made that no one is around to remember that the vocalist WAS, indeed, some young kid, and NOT saxaphonist/bandleader Jesse Powell?  Often times, the vocalist was not listed, and the orchestra/band leader and his orchestra got the artist credit.  Years later, researchers see specific listings for vocalists on some recordings, and the name of the band leader on others, and assume that the band leader sang the vocals on those.  It may not necessarily be so.

I KNOW that the singer, although sounding like Joe Williams, was NOT the latter, as he had been with Count Basie for many years, and finally went solo, and was with gangster affiliated Roulette Records in 1960, and so, not likely to have been "moonlighting" with Jesse Powell's Orchestra.  Furthermore, there were already vocals by a man with this same voice on Powell's records on Jubilee and Josie Records in the mid to late 195os, and on their Port Records subsidiary (by The Goofers) in the early '60s.  So, I suspect that this vocalist could well be Jesse Powell, himself. 

I really can't decide which is more likely to be true.  But, until we have any evidence that it was another singer, I guess we should assume that the singer on this song, and many of his orchestra's male vocals from 1955 through 1960 was Jesse, himself.

Jesse Powell was one  of the major R & B band leaders, arrangers and tenor sax players operating out of New York during the 1950s.  I have LOTS of R&B group records and records with Jesse Powell and His Orchestra as the featured artists on Atlantic, ATCO, Cat, East-West, Jubilee, Josie, King, Federal, DeLuxe,  Fury, Fire, Rama, Savoy, and many other NY and East coast labels, as well as Chess and other labels that leased product.  He had several vocalists with his orchestra over the years.  Fluffy Hunter was with him early, along with Dan Taylor.  He had a few different male singers,  I'll try to find out who was with him around 1960.

I have most, if not all of the Nappy Brown 45s on Savoy (a whole boatload by Mr. prolific), often with 2 different pressings.  I'll be able to tell if it's just a variation due to individual pressing plants, or if it's a re-pressing on a later Savoy label design/font style.

It sounds very early in style.  There wasn't much like that being recorded as late as 1960.  The vocalist has the style of Joe Williams.  But the voice isn't quite "rich" enough.  I've forgotten who Jesse Powell's male vocalist was at that time.  But, I'll bet I will recognise the name once we find out.

Having taken a closer look at the labels, I've noticed a subtle difference or two that lead me to believe that the copy with the extra X is in fact an official repress / reissue by Savoy. I could be wrong but I'll need convincing otherwise.

Post a scan of the label.  I have a large collection of Savoy 45s.  I may be able to tell by the label font and design if it is a later pressing.

Ha! Ha!  Good Ol' Steve!  I have lots of fond memories of fighting over records with him in Long Beach and L. A. Harbor Area thrift stores.  He has become a surprisingly good writer, and it's good that a lot of his vast knowledge has now gotten written down for posterity in his books.  Nobody has a better knowledge of the COMBINATION of L.A, Rhythm and Blues, Vocal Harmony Groups and early Soul groups and solo artists as he.  That book should be a MUST for any R&B Soul collector.

Maybe for the wrong reasons, but I always was a bit weary about that Volumes on Karen. The look of the label, the typo and the way the record is pressed gave me the impression it was not an early 7T's press. The odd comes with that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' shares the same overall design and fabric, but they are no match with their catalogue numbers. Ollie McLaughlin catalogue numbers were all over the place so that is that. Now I have never seen another Karen/Carla record with the same design and fabric as those two. They must be contemporary and another run from all the others Karen and Carla records. Could anyone confirm that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' was a known record since the early or mid 7T's ?

I agree.  I think McLaughlan's labels stopped operation by late 1968 or 1969 or so, and The Volumes and Jimmy Soul Clark were a "revival" of Karen in late 1970, or perhaps early 1971 for the Clark release.  He used a new pressing plant, which used a different printer for labels.  His catalog numbers often varied even during the same label run (that sometimes was related to use of a different pressing plant, (but not always).

Would be interesting to have Bob and RobbK's thoughts on this but if a record only made it as far as the "promotional" copy stage people in the US would tend to refer to that as being "unreleased" wouldn't they?  Whereas in the UK and elsewhere , collectors would say a promotional copy constituted an "actual" release. Perhaps those Solid Smoke liner notes should be read with this in mind.

I have seen a fair amount of different scans of it and then a couple copies in collections in The UK, and also at Anderson's (Soul Bowl).  I think they were all blue stock copies.  So, I'd guess that it was released to distributors and shops.  I wasn't really interested in the Soul Music coming out in 1980. so I MAY have seen it in shops in Detroit, and just ignored it.  But, I'd guess it WAS released, and just got no airplay and almost no sales.  They may have pressed 500, but a lot of them got melted back down.   I had thought there were about 35-40 original copies in UK collections, which is why I thought it may have also been booted.  But, IF there are 150+, I guess there'd have been no reason to boot it.  I had thought it was rarer than that.  But, there were a LOT of stored warehouse records sitting around about which I had no knowledge nor access, which later ended up in The UK.   So, like a fair amount of other records which I thought were extremely rare, this also had quantity turn up many years later.