Barry

YO-YO Robin!! Fancy a night out sometime?

Soulful House tracks that qualify for discussion on SS are, and can only be, the tracks that NS dj's play (By definition - people that spend the majority of their time enjoying Northern/Modern - NOT lads that seek out quality 'House Music') The ones that seem to be rolled out time and time again on here are the tracks that have the formulaic NS angle that must, it seems if it is to gain dancefloor acceptance anyhow, go with that. You can only dig so far, with regard to what is deemed 'Soulful House - that is if you are a lad that spends the majority of his time loving music that has always been based around the traditional ideals of acceptable NS all nighter plays. If you don't take the time out to understand any form of music, you never will - and if you are happy posting how terrible other forms of music are to the world, then good luck to you. Heavy rock and country music used to sound the same to me, it still does if I'm honest, but I understand that other people get some kind of solace out of it - all the time you rattle negatively about stuff you aren't interested in is time you could have spent waxing lyrical about stuff that you love. Do you think that lads that are into Modern give two shiny ones if a pure 60's Detroit fanatic tells 'em it's crap? They don't! You can flip that last sentence any way you want. All the NS dancefloor gets treated to, as regards 'Soulful House', are tracks that a long standing 60's/70's/80's Northern/Modern All Nighter lad deems worthy ,- generally, some kind of re-working of a standard, or something that uses 'those' chords and buzz-words that they believe they can get away with with nowt but a half-decent dancefloor reaction and not too much flak. Nowt wrong with that but this music has so much more to offer - and that's the stuuf that you won't hear. See what a Cabbie says when he hears that you have been dj-ing and playing 'House Music' - it generally goes something like "Oh! All that 2 Unlimited stuff/Scouse House/Trance stuff?" Or whatever, I'm sure you get my drift!? And why do you get that response? Because - they base their view on nothing else other than what they are told by the media/radio (as that is all they are able to draw their information from - the radio is THEIR NS scene, THEIR dancefloor) It's all about the information you allow yourself to be open to - all the Cabbie knows/can base his opinion on is whathe is told. Again you can stick any form of music into the above statement. Are you seeing how poor you can sound to other music lovers when you uninformedly rip the arse out of a form of music you don't really understand? I'm not having a pop, just trying to get the point over - all you hear at Nighters (if all you hear is what you hear NS/All Niter jocks play), is just that - one lads view of 'Soulful House'. There is so much more. The DJ Genesis argument sums it up well - a bit of a buzz tune initially, that now seems to attract only derisory comments (See Dustin Wilson - 'Sympathy' etc and a plethora of other 'Modern' tracks given airtime then ignored over the years). Does the fact that the scene majoritively see's it as unplayable make it a bad track? -D Does it f*ck? It's what happens on dancefloors, with anything as it happens -it's fashion - you wear the same T Shirt for three months and you are bored with it - nowt wrong with the old shirt, you are just a bit bored of it, so you buy a new 'un. DJ Genesis was yet another 'House' scapegoat...but at heart it will always be what it was when it was produced - nowt but a nod to Betty, a beatifully made tribute, put together by a lass who gave enough of a shit to spend her time and money showing her faith - HER faith - HER tribute! If you had put all that into your own Eddie Holman (whoever) tribute, I don't think you could find it in you to cheaply berate her efforts? Could you? Should you? Obviously, No! ....but loads have. It's not her fault that Sam or whoever, decided that the time was right for her production to be given 'All Nighter-Time'. Neither does it in my mind make her any less worthy of a round of applause for putting her money were her memories were. That is all the only reason, obviously, that the track was given exposure on the NS scene - one man had the balls to play it and tracks of it's kind, no mean feat alone, but the tracks I see given space on here are the same old, same old. I bet the majority of people on here, even the 60's folks, could do me a top twenty of accepted 'Soulful House' tracks fairly easily Given the fact that sequenced 'House' tracks have been played on the Nighter scene since the 80's (Stinger J, Mink, Demetrius etc), I can't believe how blinkered the scene has been over the years. For example, 'Keep On Pushing Love' is a major label release (RCA), studio sequenced, four to the floor House record - yes, the arrangement has a touch more sophistication, the tempo may be a tad more hip friendly - but that's about it - it is still by definition...a House record. It may have the very pinnable Soul Medal of Our Al singing on it (Al's Soul isn't he?) Name me another Al Green record that has been accepted on a NS dancefloor of late? This particular track is a true example of a great soul vocalist being ignored by a scene (a scene built upon his kind) until a certain arrangement and mix was laid beneath his vocal. An Al Green release played at a nighter majoritively for the mix alone and not the vocal - surely notl? A sequenced, Housey mix at that!? It is a HUGE scene, the 'Soulful House' (pigeon-hole) scene. There are hundreds of quality all nighter playable 'Soulful House' releases weekly, both in the US and Europe - sadly the NS dancefloor gets to hear but a few. I don't throw myself into these diatribes as I wish to see 70's/Modern rooms play more 'House', I am at heart a traditionalist and wouldn't want a quality Modern night that I was attending ruined with willy-nilly poorly chosen 'Soulful House' tracks - I've had nights ruined at nighters with exactly that scenario. What I do think would help all nighters, is a radical re-think of how 'progressive'independant black music is showcased - it isn't difficult to put together a night that can incorporate traidtional all nigher based soul and House. Maleadey makes an effort. It is no bigger a leap than the Northern room incorporating R&B or Popcorn. I know I annoy some people with these posts of mine, I can see that. What I do hope is that the people that I do aggravate may at least see the love I have for this scene. I have it's traditional values built into me, I can't ever lose that. I just don't want it to stagnate....and I believe there is a danger of that if people don't simply...listen.

Nice one Cunnie, definately an eye opener and thanks for the reply. Does anyone see the correlation between this kind of sh*t and 'The Champion' et al?

Nice reply mate. All I am saying is, and here is the question: Would we have the term 'SOUL MUSIC' without currently released black American music? No! We wouldn't! Which will eternally prove any argument against the progression of the afore-mentioned music, welll and truly VOID! Newly produced black Ameican music may not be deemed 'Northern' but by my anal definition, has to be deemed (by histories pages alone) 'SOUL MUSIC'.

Everybody has off days Tony, it's a truth. I think that the above thread would have made nicer reading if the above statement had been the one that you started your thread with.

No big ups to himself Gary, no camera on him, just a lad who knows the script and his passion for his music coming out in his dexterity - and thanks for the response. Respect.

Tony- Knob Off!

I passed on the Woggle on the way in Macca.

Sorry Ivor, I can see that I can be vague with my posts - I've that much arrogance in me, I occassionally can't see past it. Of course 'House Music is Disco's Revenge' (that statement, although a fantastic media spin-line, is flawed in itself, if only in the respect that there is little, if any, difference in arrangement and vocal content) House is Disco (?? What does this board deem Disco? - there's another thread ). Disco was always House - it just happens that the term 'House' - as it is called these days, (the Kick and Hi hat sequenced production ) - pigeon hole wasn't around back then to coin. There has never been a gap in US vocal based productions, there has always been the the same integrity, that four to the floor beat and the same reasons behind people feeling the need to catalogue their feelings in a studio - getting it down. Nice soundbite - but I see no difference between the two termed forms. Mainly as I have continually bought (and for me, understood) danceable black music and how it needs to progress...much the same as anything. I respect everyones view on here, that is if it is given without prejudice...I'll not counter anyones post as long as it is a positive one. Harmony is easy....don't hide your insecurities under a negative response.

If I'd have been a Cub mate, the first badge I'd have earned (fr you anyhow) would have been my arrogance badge. If you skip through my posts, I generally give a view, an honest arse-free one, based only upon my good times dancing and attending Northern nights...and on the back of that I occasionally get taken to task by people like yourself....as I am a nobody in real NS terms. If Keb/Brian Rae/Ady or whoever came on here rattling on (as I do) about what formed their views, I know you wouldn't have a go, you'd accept them. It'd be nice if you would respect my miniscule input (and my involvement was anything but, I put in). I can talk, at length, about every Nighter that ran from '79 to '90 - it just happens, I was a kid when Wigan thrilled me, and I occassionally like to share that....but if you want5 I'll apologise to you for that and look after your view of the way this thread has run!?:? Please have a little perspective, I know I'm an easy target for the type of sniping poster like yourself - but I have as much right to post on here as you ever will. As the COD's said - 'I'm A Good Guy'. You just need to read between my lines.

Late nights and soul music....the great social leveller.

That was the track that I was enquiring about as it happens when he got the right hump, he was a bit up himself, or so I thought in my youthful illegal state.

Another great list lads and another couple of bob spent on summat I should have bought when I was a kid. They all fill the gaps though ay? Thanks.

As ever, in that fantastic air-tight NS world he inhabits. PM me fella, and I'll give you his number...it's obvious by post your he won't mind.

Very little, I suppose, to do with Northern but an awful lot to do with Black America (I hope the Mods allow this post) but check this beautiful anonymous bedroom production out. Just stunning.

Mate! In one. I wouldn't have bothered posting all my over elaborate red wine based postins on here if I'd have read that first.

On the flip though Bearsy, you've hit the nail on the head there mate....it's the house music that you, or whoever knows, that is the only way a subjective view is formed. You really cannot give a biased view of anything unless you know what you're talking about. A lot of posts that follow a 'Soulful House' thread are based upon a limited knowledge, I've not really got a problem with that at all, we all have a learning curve to sit on, I'm a realist (my knowledge is limited compared to others on here, I worked for it though)....but Christ! there's so much 'Soulful House' released worlwide weekly, it's unreal. Look back a the history of the scene, how many die hard 60'a lovers (cue the flood ), haven't grown to accept certain 70's productions? I know there will be a significant portion, yes, but, my age old argument is that to truly understand black music, you must see that there - year after year - is very little difference in production techniques. get over the 'Boom - Tit', kick and hi hat production of 'Soulful House' and there's nothing more than a black man or woman singing. I served Sam with 'House' for years and he would turn tracks down over certain production elements, no matter how worthy (I thought) or 'soulful, vocally, a track was. But that's how people are - fair do's, each to their own. On the back of that though, the story your alotted oracle (the person you face on the dancefloor at any given time) tells you, is just - and only - that. His story...nobody elses. If you can't think outside the box, at least stick your head over the edge...it'll pay dividends.

Was he Steve!?

You don't know me do you!? I've known Alex and Dave since me bird was a baby. ...I am the Chalet King.

I agree with you Steve but I also do to a degree understand the view of how the productions may have dated for some somewhat. I still love 'em anyhow.

Nice one for the reply lads but it's a Fraternity copy I'm after.

Bearsy - I'm here. Tony (Rounce) - I used VSR simply as it is a track that I thought the majority of this board could relate to as in it is a four to the floor, percussive and exciting production - a la House - if you think that there aren't any Soulful House records that haven't pissed old Vicki into a cocked hat, then you need to take a little more interest mate.) I am also sick to death of the old DJ Genesis, Michael Procotor posts. The reasons these records get so much unwarranted stick on this board is due to the unimaginatave, lack lustre, interest that Northern dj's give over to seeking out newly released Black American productions (Not 'Soulful House/House or 'whatever' term you may think be derisory as people read your posts - in reality they are - Black Danceable Music - Northern). A Northern Soul DJ (Sam or whoveer) is just that - a person who gives their time, majoritively, over to Northern...not new releases...and they should be taken with a pinch of salt. I'll give you a tip re 'Soulful House' - stop looking Stateside and start looking to Europe....many of the old Bradford Modern Room stuff that is still remebered, where just that. I could play you stuff that would make you weep on a dancefloor. I mean it. What you get told is right on the dancefloor by 'significant others', isn't always that.

Anyone want to trade an original 'Jewel' and a oner for an Ike Strong?

OFFER! - £80??

It sounds right Malc, stage to the left as you looked at it? Maybe? And I'm sure Rushbrooke was on, so for the first time in my life I am being positioned somewhere in the UK by someone else.