Ian Dewhirst

Nah. You don't need help Andy. That was the famous telephone call that Ed Wingate had to take in the studio when Berry Gordy offered to buy the Ric-Tic/Golden World operation. They decided it would be a nice touch to leave it on just as they'd run out of ideas and were trying to coax a decent vocal out of Laura Lee on an old San Remo Strings backing track.......... Ian D

So are there any Motown logs for the California recordings then? It's be interesting to compare them to the Detroit recordings log. It might be that the logging system was based in Detroit so every tape that came in was automatically logged as Detroit recording wherever it was recorded. I'm sure someone can clear this up. Also I think Carole Kay covers the finger and pluck situation (sounds vaguely obscene doesn't it?) on the website link above. I mean she LOVED James Jamerson, so as the world's top session bassist at the time, why would she need to try and steal credit from a fellow musician? I just can't see why she'd need to do that. Most musicians I know can recognise their own playing and someone at Carol Kay's level wouldn't risk harming her reputation with other musicians by bullshitting about records she never played on would she? It's real interesting though and reputations are at stake here. This arguement has been raging within the bass playing community since 2004. Essentially we have a white female bassist from L.A. (and arguably the best bass player ever) claiming that she played the Funk Brothers basslines on some key Motown records. Where's Tony Rounce when we need him........? Ian D

Actually I just realised that the links in the first post didn't work due to me being a buffoon of the highest order. All now fixed folks so please check 'em to get more background on this fascinating story. To be honest, I haven't had time today to do the sort of in-depth research that I enjoy with stuff like this. When Greg rang me at lunchtime to ask me what I thought, I'd just eaten a massive pizza and was still nursing a king hell b*stard hangover from the night before plus was walking back to the office with a guy I'd just had a meeting with. But then I started thinking about Frank Wilson who was West Coast based and who Motown must have recruited circa '64 or thereabouts after he'd already had a smash with the Frank Wilson & The Cavaliers record ("Just Kissed My Baby" I think). Which meant that Motown had a West Coast presence probably from '63 or thereabouts. Because all the books obviously tend to focus on Detroit, there's a tendency for most writers to either miss or kind of ignore the West Coast Motown office. I really know nothing about it at all but I'm not a Motown scholar so I'm sure someone on here can dig up some info about this Los Angeles outpost of an independent black-owned Detroit company. Who ran it? Who was A&R? What tracks were recorded there and by whom? How many Motown sessions were done on the West Coast and who were the L.A. players? Where was the office? Etc, etc, etc. I think it's entirely plausable that Carole Kaye did play bass on those tunes. She has no need to make it up as she's probably the most commercially successful session bassist in the world with the most hit records. Plus she handled Phil Spector pretty well. She was boss and acknowledged for being better than the guys, so it's not like she needs to bullshit anyone. As Mick Howard pointed out, it's entirely possible that the Wreckin' Crew backing tracks were shipped to Detroit and then sweetened and overdubbed with strings and vocals etc, but you'd be kinda nuts to remove a Carole Kaye bassline. No point. She's pretty insistent that those basslines are hers. I reckon that it all made perfect sense for Berry Gordy. He was working the Funk Brothers to the max by '64, probably 24/7 in the Snakepit in Detroit and he probably wanted another crack team to keep everyone on their toes, preferably far away and in nicer climate. We know he bought property in L.A. in '63, recruited Frank Wilson, a young L.A. Black guy who'd already scored a national hit in '64 and now we know he used the Wrecking Crew as early as '65. I never really made the connection or thought about it before today, but now I'm wondering how many of the hits did the Wrecking Crew play on? Berry Gordy was a consumate operator and a PR genius - he invented both Artist Development and 'The Charm School' as just two great examples. When his ex-secretary, Elaine Jesmer wrote a book called "No.1 With A Bullet" - a thinly-veiled and highly contentious novel about a black-owned U.S. record company, he had it pullled off the shelves within 48 hours and bought the film rights for perpetuity. Try finding it now LOL...His PR focus and spin-doctoring always focused on Motown being a Detroit company so he probably didn't shout about the L.A. operation that much because it didn't suit a company that was named after the motor city so why muddy the story? So I find it fascinating that he had a hit-making operation on the West Coast as early as '65 using the same musicians that Phil Spector used. Yet those West Coast recordings sound just like they were made in Detroit. He basically managed to replicate the Detroit sound in L.A. with a completely different bunch of musicians and different studios which is some feat believe me. Fascinating stuff and I've now sorted my reading material for the next couple of weeks. I've got the Orange Motown book but never bothered reading it 'cos it looked like tough going but I'm sure glad I kept it. I knew it'd come in handy at some point. Similarly I've also got that massive Master Recordings book so I feel some serious research time coming up..... Having written all this it occurs to me that there's experts out there who will probably know every single West Coast Wrecking Crew Motown recording and if there are, then please whack up a list if poss. It makes sense when you listen to stuff like "My Sugar Baby", a Frank Wilson produced West Coast brilliantly authentic Motown soundalike. In fact, was THAT the Wrecking Crew I wonder? Ian D

So, in effect, Harboro Horace was a cover-up of the original Ady Croasdell? F*ckin' weird scene this is....... Ian D

Mmm. Interesting topic this. Greg Wilson mentioned this to me earlier today so I said it would be worth posting on S.S. to see what extra knowledge could be gleaned from any Motown experts. Here's what Greg just sent me:- "The book I mentioned is 'Good Vibrations - The History Of The Record Producer' by Mark Cunningham. It criticises Nelson George for not mentioning that there were sessions in the early to mid-60's in LA (once Berry Gordy had bought property there) with the Wrecking Crew. These were supposedly recorded by Armin Steiner and brought back to Detroit for the vocals to be added. The musicians apparently didn't know the titles of the songs they were recording, but recognised some of them later, when issued by Motown. Carol Kaye says she has a letter on Jobete Music stationary saying she played bass on a number of Motown recordings between 63-69. She claims that these include 'Reach Out, I'll Be There', 'Standing In The Shadows Of Love', 'Bernadette', 'Baby Love', 'You Keep Me Hangin' On', 'You Can't Hurry Love', 'I Was Made To Love Her', and 'My Guy'. This would be quite a revelation if true, given that 'Reach Out' is considered to be one of James Jamerson greatest basslines, although her claim to have played the bass on this track doesn't seem to backed up by other Wrecking Crew musicians who would have been on the same session, so would surely have made similar claims.. Found this, which discusses the subject: My link And this is from Carol Kaye's website: My link Any thoughts anyone? Ian D

And, to be honest Phil, I've always thought that was one of your major failings mate. Ian D

Fifty quid's a snap for such a great record! Is the vocalist white though? I know nothing about the U.S. Rock Candy but Joe Tate is a brilliant arranger....... Ian D

And to add to the dillemma, I've seen both water-damaged and really bad presses of the original with smudged typesets too! Again, I would have to ask what was the point in booting it? It's a breathtakingly brilliant record with one of the greatest arrangements I've ever heard but it was only ever a Mecca cult item which never really translated past that....... Ian D

Actually the soundtrack album's been playing in the office all morning and there's been a constant procession of people asking what various tracks are throughout, so the Soundtrack album definitely appeals to a wide section of people. Sounds pretty good actually - like a Greatest Hits type album which it really is in a way........ Ian D

Well, by the end of my 6 months in L.A. I was more involved in other things. I'd just completed co-producing a track (with the infamous Simon Soussan) which went on to sell a million copies, so I was suddenly hob-nobbing in different circles by that point - generally around the record companies like Casablanca, Soultrain and Motown (where I introduced Soussan to a guy called Tom Depeiro who introduced Soussan to the Motown record archive where Soussan 'liberated' the Frank Wilson record). So by the end of '76 and the point where my visa ended, I was trying to tie up the loose ends with the Shalamar deal (unsuccessfully as it happens but that's another story), close off a relationship with an American girl and generally try and get back to the UK in one piece. I fully expected to return to L.A. in '77 and continue where I left off but circumstances changed and I ended up staying in the UK, so I never really continued in the full-time record-hunting business, just did it time to time whenever I was back in the U.S. from then on. I'm pretty sure some of the guys on here will remember or know Darryl. He had a collection and a half and was a serious collector although I seem to remember he collected from the 50's forward so probably a lot of Doo-Wop in there but some mouth-watering Northern too. Similarly Chris Peake who I know various other people bumped into over the years and they would have found great records there 'cos he had tens of thousands and you never knew what you'd find on any particular visit. I often wonder about some of the characters I met during that time - a guy called Al who used to be Lou Ragland's manager and who was in hock to the mob and had a houseful of great records, the guy from New Jersey who relocated to Redondo Beach with all his record shop stock and the guy who ran a household goods stall in East L.A. with 100,000 records that were left outside with just a plastic sheet protecting 'em. Happy days indeed! Ian D

Actually I never thought Sonny Herman was that rare anyway - maybe 'cos I always had it in my head it was a three-quider 'cos that's what I bought it for. And in the mid 70's it was obviously a lot easier to locate garages, shops and market stalls full of stuff. Where I remember the bulk of the L.A. label stuff being around was actually in a bloke's garage in the 2nd week I was in L.A. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have totally cleaned up from just that one location. But there were also nutcases like Chris Peake who had a bungalow packed full of mostly West Coast stuff - that's where I found the 2nd known copy of Willie Hutch, the first Judy Street and a bundle of other West Coast obscurities. Also there were some great collectors out there like Darryl Stolper who had fantastic runs of L.A. labels including all the goodies....... Ian D

Yep, I'd listened to the Sonny Herman and liked it even though it wasn't as obvious as a lot of other stuff at the time. Nice catchy tune. I found absolutely loads of things like Ray Agee, Kell Osbourne, Bobby Angelle, Troy Dodds etc, etc but actually left the vast majority of 'em either because I'd be with Soussan and ask him if he knew it and he'd say something along the lines of, "repetitive garbaaaage baby boy" or, "common as hell, I use 'em for frisbees" or something similar OR because I'd listen to 'em and in 1976 they'd often sound too slow, too RnB'ish or just too dull at the time. Remember this was '76 and I was really looking for another Bob Relf or Tempos at the time so without a crystal ball who was to know that the sound would eventually evolve and accept less obvious stuff? It became pretty frustrating when I used to bump into Sam in the 80's and he'd show me all these super rare L.A. releases that I'd left in garages in '76 including Ray Agee because there just couldn't be another great record on Soultown that wasn't already known could there LOL....?. Also what I couldn't believe was that one of Arthur Fenn's greatest hits was at Monarch where I'd hung around regularly for months and found quite a few things (including the Si Hightower test-pressing) but I never found that room that Arthur got into! It just goes to show you that however well you think you've got something covered there's always that oddball occasion when luck comes into the equation. Ian D

I dunno Sean. There's a supposedly unbelievable Sonny Turner record on Musicor that Levine used to have that's never turned up since......... The Tony Turner was always a stretch though wasn't it? Actually I think a vocal to "6 by 6" would sound about as effective as Laura Lee, i.e. like an afterthought...... Ian D

Ghost In My House by Rare Earth or R. Dean Taylor on the Rare Earth label? New one on me either way..... Ian D

I originally bought one from Brian Phillips circa 1974 for £3. And the ones I found in L.A. were sent through to Neil Rushton as part of a bulk shipment back in '76 so god knows what they went for........ Ian D

Yep, used to be a few lists in the 70's as a three quider......but then again there were many like that. I always quite liked this - a nice catchy stomper. Found a few in L.A. but no one did cartwheels about it back then but maybe the time is right these days........ Ian D

It's my guess that they probably got the film that THEY wanted rather than the film that many S.S.'ers would have wanted. I'm not in the business of even wanting to understand what today's audiences require as I'm way past the target age for most films anyway,so it's difficult to comment on whether they got their targetting right or not. However, the stats are out on the first 3 days that the film was shown in the UK via 6 screens and they'll probably be encouraged by the average cinema take in the period which puts it @ No.34 in the UK with an average £1504 take per site which isn't bad considering the meagre takings of lots of other films. Conceivably it could roll out to more cinemas over the next few weeks and build on that. However, the only real publicity I've seen for the damn film has been on here so maybe their PR needs to ramp up a notch LOL.... https://www.ukfilmcouncil.org.uk/article/16977/UK-Box-Office-3---5-September-2010?action=fullscreen Ian D

I've just heard this on a Gospel CD and it struck me as being totally Northern with a great production and a great wailing lead vocal. I was surprised to see it was released as a single on a label called Calvary. Anyone got it or heard it and what's it worth? Ian D

Me too! I was surprised no one mentioned it earlier........ Ian D

Mmm. I dunno. Fontella Bass or Shirley Brown maybe? Ian D

Are you sure Pete? Can't believe they'd have bothered - it wasn't like it was ever a huge record......I've certainly never seen one. Ian D

There's an interesting thread over on the DJ History forum about James Hamilton, perhaps best known for his Dance Music column in Record Mirror magazine in the 70's and 80's. He was a major Soul Music enthusiast right through the 1960's but is better known for his excellent and very accurate reviews of just about every dance music release from circa '75 to '90. However, when he passed away his records got auctioned-off and there was a huge box of U.S. Gospel 45's that no one seemed to want so they were picked up for a song. Nothing ever happened with 'em and several years later an enthusiast enquired about them and picked up the whole lot - untouched since the auction. He's posted a load of scans of the original 45's with James's comments wriiten on the sleeves and, to me, it's like a priceless piece of history. Since there's just been a Gospel thread on S.S. I thought this may be of interest to Soul Source so I've taken the liberty of mentioning it. His descriptions are brilliant - his review of a Rhonda Davis Gospel release is indicative of his ability to spot talent but I'm not a Gospel freak and most of the stuff is too early for me, but I'm sure there'll be a few people that may be interested, so here's the link:- https://www.djhistory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57141 I actually knew James in the 80's but I knew he was seriously collecting throughout the 60's and I'd often quiz him about his influences and he was just a total Soul enthusiast with unbelievable knowledge. Now I've seen these scans of the Gospel 45's with his reviews written on the sleeves it makes me wonder what else he had and who got it! Ian D

Have you heard the Chapter 5 Re-Edit yet? Now that's a f*ckin' tune! Ian D

Unfortunately you're the 'wrong type' of aficionado for this album Pete. Luckily that hasn't harmed it's commercial success. Best of luck with your next Sh*t by the way. Hope everything's hunky dory in that department. Ian D

You should hear the Larry Sanders rework of Jean Carn's "If You Wanna Go Back" too Malc 'cos that's another beauty. The more creative of some of these re-edits really allow the tracks to breath so that's the beauty of 'em IMO. I'm currently trying to sort out a Philly International Re-Edits comp for the 40 anniversary of P.I. next year, so hopefully I'll be able to get the best of the re-edits out there soon fingers crossed...... Ian D