Chalky

Dean Anderson is joined on The Sound Of Soul ™ by one of the legends of the scene Ginger Taylor. There isn't much he hasn't done on this scene and there aren't many places he hasn't Dj'ed. As always Ginger is great fun with two hours of some great stories and super soul music.

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Have a patch from the Whitchurch anniversary, not the best embroidery 🤣

25 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

That's because it belongs to Ian Clark ... one could therefore assume this 'acetate' originated from somewhere in the Guildford area .. as opposed to L.A.

Andy

 

I did think its origins lay nearer to home.  

3 hours ago, Amsterdam Russ said:

The one Manship had is a Monarch test press cut on behalf of RCA. Video here...

 

My question still remains though, would RCA have used Monarch considering their mastering and production facilities?  

14 hours ago, Benji said:

From what I remember RCA acetates all had RCA Reference Recording label on them, i.e. cut in-house and not at the pressing plant.

Or is the one pictured in the Manship vid a test press and not an acetate?

If it was a test press that would indicate a monarch west coast press which is a puzzle when RCA had a massive plant in Hollywood.  As you also suggest the lack of any RCA details on the label is also unusual. 

1 hour ago, Wheelsville1 said:

Whilst reading the description of Donna King on j. Manships site,he credits the lyrics to  Roger Washington.Is it more likely to be Raymond Washington(aka guitar ray)as he had several releases of his own on Hot Line. Chris. 

discogs has it down as Raymond Washington if you follow the links

Would RCA use Monarch?  After all they were one of the biggest mastering and manufacturing companies around.

29 minutes ago, Mark Soul said:

anybody got 5 robert thomas salvation for 20 quid each pm me ha ha cheers mark

Well Taffy had 7 or 800 a few years ago at about £8 a piece.  £20 is all it should be. 

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

True but there's no entry before MJ 16 and past MJ 19, the matter is of another concern I thought.

Discogs goes up to 23 in design we are talking about, its missing 17 which is above and 21.   There are many more differing catalogue number system

13 hours ago, Shufflin said:

could the orange one be considered a promo (business details on the label) and the yellow one the commercial release? just speculating

2 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

All indicate same pressing plant. Only label variations.

I doubt Joey would go to the expense of promos or two different labels for any particular release.  Probably a case of getting records in the stores as and when the group were getting some action.  One release failed, the next hit so got the previous one out there again etc. Just speculation mind but it was about making money at every and any opportunity. 

The discs were done at Alco btw

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

True but there's no entry before MJ 16 and past MJ 19, the matter is of another concern I thought.

I can’t remember but will dig them out at weekend.  List all with the added info we have.

So Mutt-Jeff 18 (orange with horizontal bars) and Mutt & Jeff 18 (Yellow) have the same delta numbers.  

60731 & 60731 x

37 minutes ago, Mal C said:

Noticed that Dave Rimmer has more titles for this label but some of his years don’t match what we have above, there is no delta matrix info on his entries... 

Think there is more titles in R&B indies and on discogs than above

1 hour ago, Shufflin said:

my Mutt&Jeff yellow label (the one with a star either side of mutt&jeff) has

You'll never make the grade - delta 67 31, mj-009

this love of ours delta 67 31 -x, mj-10

Is that 67031? 

3 hours ago, Tlscapital said:

Knowing for fact, OK; no ! Not yet at least. But  in regard of the evolution of the labels, logos and info on the labels would/should put your orange Mutt-Jeff one first. The Delta matrix should provide some helpful informations if one could gather and place them for each sides on each releases.

Mutt-Jeff 16 - Charles Perry - 'move on love' (005) b/w 'how can I' (006)

Mutt-Jeff 17 - Sun Lover's - 'my poor heart' (007) b/w 'I'll tell the world' (008)

Mutt-Jeff 18 - Sunlover's - 'you'll never make the grade' (009) delta # 67031 MJ 009 (June/July 1967)

                                        b/w 'this love of ours' (010) delta # 67031-x. MJ-010 (June/July 1967)

These 3 above share the same flat design with horizontal lines.

Mutt & Jeff 18 - Sunlover's - 'you'll never make the grade' (009) b/w 'this love of ours' (010)

Mutt & Jeff 18 - Sunlover's - 'my poor heart' (016) b/w 'this love of ours' (010)

Mutt & Jeff 19 - Johnny Hendley - 'my baby came out if nowhere' (011) b/w ''I'll tell the world' (0??)

The yellow Mutt & Jeff with the "Disney" logo came after...

The Breakthrough before, in between and/or after if ever... 

 

Sunlovers - Breakthrough 1002 "My Poor Heart" - delta # 62161  MJ-016 (June/July 1966)

                                               b/w "This Love of Ours" - delta # 67031-x. MJ-010 (June/July 1967)

Has to be a 1967 release due to the flip

can anyone else contribute scans and or matrix run out details?

49 minutes ago, The Tempest said:

Withdrawn over a licensing issue after a couple of weeks 

You sure?  It's on discogs at just over 20 quid.

If its valuable one on my shelf 😉 

There is a release, Mutt & Jeff 17 listed in R&B Indies which isn't in the pictures.

Sunlovers - My Poor Heart  MJ-106

                     I'll Tell The World

This might explain why a recording with an earlier delta appears on the later release?

On 06/09/2019 at 13:48, Tlscapital said:

True Anorak real question for me as well. While I'm still wondering or waiting for credible factual argument on the matter, I have come to dig down the label variations to do some assumption deductions that can prove false if ever...

What is interesting though is that the Charles Perry 'how can I' b/w 'move on love' is often claim to be released first on Magnum then on MGM (promos only !!!) before being finally re-issued on Mutt & Jeff.

As this happens sometimes after an "independent" lease deal with a wider distribution company or even a major record company (both in this case) that didn't achieve the expected success hoped for due to lack of promotion or such misfortune...

Hence that Charles Perry had a promo release on Mutt-Jeff (NOT Mutt '&' Jeff !!!) that bares the same design as your Sunlover's. Could it be that this Charles Perry Mutt-Jeff promo release pre-dated the lease to the Magnum issue ?

If so this could explain why the people claim to first see the Magnum copies in the record stores back then and the Mutt & Jeff later... re-released out of disappointment after the short Magnum small success break-out and the Major MGM lease big let-down.

If this would be the case, this could indicate that this Sunlover's Mutt-Jeff orange label variation of yours could actually pre-date the switch to the new then yellow label design of Mutt & Jeff re-release.

Worth noting that the Charles Perry Mutt-Jeff promo has a P.O Box address on the label, the Sunlover's orange Mutt-Jeff has a P.O. Box and a phone number and the Charles Perry on yellow Mutt & Jeff has only a phone number.

As far as I am aware and according to data elsewhere Charles Perry on Mutt-Jeff is 1965, MGM 1966.  The inspirations was cut in 1966.  

The Sunlovers "My Poor Heart" has a delta number dating it mid 1966.  The flip "This Love Of Ours" has a delta number dating it mid 1967.

This week on The Sound Of Soul ™ Dean Anderson is joined by two of Scotland's finest, Colin Law and John Buckley.  Two hours of great soul music and chat.

9 hours ago, ashersammy said:

Mate, I'm from Derbyshire, Ashover to start then dumped in Matlock Bath. I had a blue n silver issue then a pink Big Top, am sure. But am equally as sure that I had Happy Velvet Hammer on a same sort Suomi blue label with, again, silvered detail which I got from Soul Bowl, but which no one else seems to know about???? Is my recollect going W e s t.... 

Hope you are well Sammy, long time no see.

two cracking releases at a great price too, what's not to like.

Its a keeper for those who have it that's why it is rarely for sale.  There are copies out there though.

This is what I put together with Sidney at the time 

Shee Records

563 E. Tremont Avenue, Bronx, New York,

Founded by Larry Roberts with some other partners.  Sidney Barnes was asked to help set up the label, coming up with the name and the logo.

 
Sid was a Motown Staff writer at the time and Lucille White took a song to Motown with the hope of getting it recorded, it was rejected.  However Sid liked the song and thought it would be ideal for Little Nicky Soul at the newly created Shee records.

Little Nicky, real name Nichalous Faircorth was from Newark, New Jersey and was a very good friend of Sidney Barnes.  Sidney collaborated with Lucille, helping rewrite the lyricsand produced the recording of the song for Little Nicky.  He is credited on the label as M. Alexander as he couldn’t use his real name because he was solely contracted to Motown.  Richard Tee, the arranger and conductor was a piano player at Jobete, he later went on to work as musical arranger for Paul Simon and Aretha Franklin.

Despite rumours Little Nicky didn’t record any other tracks with Shee according to Sidney.

One other release on the label was by the Four Arts. The group was Lee Gilliard, Cleve Gilliard, Dave Richards and Ike Richards.  Sidney doesn’t remember anything about them.  The 45 was written and produced by Larry Roberts.

SR-100 Four Arts

Just One Night (ZTSP 94861)

Who Do You Think You Are (ZTSP 94862)

SR-101 Little Nicky Soul

I Wanted To Tell You (ZTSP 94863)

You Said (ZTSP 94864)