Frankie Crocker

Well said Julian. The youths of Bristol could be dancing to our favourite sounds in 50 years time. Who knows, they might even be buying our original vinyl long after we’ve gone. As supporters of good music, it’s heartening to see a wave of enthusiasm embracing what we’ve been fortunate to enjoy for decades.

I was at the Albert Hall and there were plenty of folk new to Northern, some tourists, loads of comfy-couch soulboys (like myself) and soulgirls plus lots of young and middle aged folk boogieing along to afab set of tunes. The Bristol Soul Club were in evidence wearing t-shirts done for the occasion. Covid is almost forgotten and no excuse to stay at home and miss out on musical treats.

Having read the article by Phoebe Luckhurst, I’m now in a position to comment objectively. The article features in a special Spring Fashion edition so the context suggests this topic is something hip to consider. The article focuses on the Bristol Soul Club events started by Levanna McLean. Events are packed out and everybody is having a good time enjoying the music, dressing up in whatever pleases and dancing any old how. Old School devotees might be perplexed reading about Bristol’s youth reviving a mysterious genre of dance music but the scene there is buzzing and an indication of what can flourish when someone with a bit of get-up-and-go sets things alight. The music played is well received and the tunes spun are as good as many heard around the country. It seems all is well in Bristol and it was heartening to see the youngsters having a fun time dancing rather than queueing for the dentist or throwing statues in the harbour. Re the advert, that was a bonus in this Sunday’s paper. If it sparks a few more comments, I’ll leave it to the Mods split the thread. On a positive note, I think it’s good that places outside London may have the opportunity to experience last year’s Albert Hall concert but the event could be a slimmed down version judging from the venues. Stuart Maconie mentioned the plans just after Christmas and again last week, so it’s good to see the details finally in print. I suspect all the events will be sold out and are confident that those who attend will have an enjoyable evening. Book now to avoid disappointment...

Just a heads up for those heading to the newsagents - there’s a four page article on the Bristol Northern Soul scene in today’s Sunday Times. I’m still reading the article so will reserve comment until later. There’s also an advert for the BBC Radio Northern Soul proms in the regions on page 17 of the Culture Section.

Liking this thread the more I read it. So far, contributors have intimated that Eddie Parker 1st pressings with the large even Archer stamp are rare, scarce, numerous but in collections, widely available back in the day etc etc but clearly there is no consensus. As this record was (another contentious assertion coming up) probably the first Wigan spin to go ballistic with record buyers prompting the various bootleg pressings, it’s probably true to say that the bulk of surviving originals are in the boxes of British collectors and therefore rarely seen for sale. Now back to the Archer plant in October 1968. Jack Ashford wants to press his record and needs promo copies to distribute to Detroit radio stations. This is a costly business and there is no guarantee the record will be spun by DJ’s. Jack opts for a minimum press run, say 200 copies. Perhaps some of the run are given green labels, who knows, but think outside the box. Norman Archer’s business is inundated with orders, after all, it’s Detroit 1968 and the Archer plant is the first and probably the only facility of its kind in the city. For some reason, Archer only do a small run, like many other US plants pressing minor labels. Jack and Lorraine having faith in their great record, decide to press up a larger quantity but choose to use another pressing plant as Archer can not meet their needs. And so the 3w’s variant (as I’m now terming it) is born early in 1969. The Archer October 1968 pressing is the original issue but the early 1969 3w’s pressing or reissue may have been the main bulk pressing hence this discussion.

Known only to a few, probably those heavily involved in selling or dealing. An early thread on Soul-Source raised the question of the authenticity of the 3w variant so it was not really common knowledge 30 years ago.

But you could reason that for a song he co-wrote for the only release on his own label, he would have talked to Lorraine and agreed to press more than Archer did. That could explain why the October 68 record was swiftly followed by an early 69 pressing termed by Lorraine as a ‘reissue’. So, we could be looking at a situation like the Superlatives where the yellow and blue pressings were done at slightly different times in different places. I tried phoning Mike Archer yesterday but got an answerphone message - I’ll try again later.

An interesting point as Martin was amongst the first to hit Detroit. However, would he have checked the run-out details? The Archer and 3w reissues were pressed within a few months so he could have seen quantity of the latter. There’s an Archer discography online - it has the Four Tracks on Mandingo on it but not the EddieParker on Ashford - this helps confirm the record in question is highly elusive. Sure, most first issues are tucked away in collections so rarely crop up for sale, but the lack of data online suggests it is a very scarce record in the even-Archer format.

Thanks for this - it would be good to have more information from Jack. Sure, Popsike is of limited reliability but it does indicate what records have been coming out of the woodwork in the internet auction age. True, sales of Eddie Parker peaked at 70’s venues but many of those would have been bootlegs as they vastly outnumber Archer copies. The reference to Ashford samples was supposition on my part - if Archer could only press a tiny number of white demos for Jack in 1968, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that a few green and white issues were done to ‘pilot’ the new label, a 25 count box of samples perhaps...perhaps Jack can enlighten us?

Not the case. The 1968 Archer demo and issue are the first press. The re-issue of 1969 may be the ‘main’ issue given this is the one imported by Soul Bowl in bulk, and despite being pressed (slightly) after the Archer copies, may indeed be of more significance than previously thought. Yes, there’s much speculation but also a considerable amount is uncertain for example how many records did the Archer plant press and why so few, what prompted Ashford to use another pressing plant for the release and when were the 3m copies actually pressed? Ultimately, I think the 3m issues are worth owning as they were pressed in the USA early in 1969 or possibly even before that QED.

Still giving this record the speculation it deserves, and admittedly theorising fir the most part... Perhaps the Archer pressing plant job in October 1968 merely amounted to the white demo copies plus a few green and white Ashford samples for Jack’s approval and handing out to local connections; John Manship rates the white demos as being very rare, but on Popsike there are several and not many more even-Archer stamped issues. I don’t know where the 3m plant was based in 1969 - I don’t even know its proper name but are just calling it this for the time being. There are a few pressing plant experts out there who hopefully will add to the story. I know I have a few records with 3m’s stamped in the run-out so will eventually get round to working out where they came from. I did read that Archer was the only record pressing plant in Detroit in the 60’s - if that was the case, a lot of records would have been pressed outside the city as a matter of necessity. Given there were only a small number of pressing plants in the USA, manufacturing was widely dispersed and closely linked to the locations of the major record companies such as RCA, ABC, MGM, Coral-Decca, Warner Brothers etc. So, we might be looking at a scenario whereby the bulk of the USA Eddie Parker issues came from a pressing plant that was sub-contracted to handle an order that the Archer plant could not fulfil QED.

Thanks for starting the thread. This record is heading to Crocker Towers to replace the bootleg with an uneven Archer stamp. Sadly, no Archer stamped issue has been available for sale recently so this 3M variant will have to suffice until the1968 pressing pops up. As mentioned above, the true first pressing is pretty scarce and rarely seen for sale. This may be due to the limited output of the Archer pressing plant in Detroit. If Jack Ashford and Lorraine Chandler were only able to press a small quantity of records in October 1968, they might have been disappointed with the situation given their investment in the record. Understandably, they had faith in the record as it was a great sound so naturally they turned to another pressing plant to deliver a larger quantity of records. Lorraine Chandler described the situation as one of pressing a legal reissue. Theorising a little here, this record could have had experienced problems at the Archer plant hence a very rapid re-pressing at another plant. If the October 1968 pressing quantity was inadequate, Jack and Lorraine may have decided to remedy the situation in November 1968, put a fresh order in during December 1968, had the records pressed in January 1969 and taken delivery in February 1969. The 3M pressings were distributed between March and May 1969 judging from the dates on the photos earlier in the thread - 31/3/69 and 7/5/69 using the British system and not the confusing American one. So, maybe Eddie Parker is a bit like the East Coast - West Coast pressing situation where a label would use two plants. Major labels like Decca would sometimes have second, third, fourth and fifth issues as the pressing stampers deteriorated or demand for a sound continued to grow. Perhaps it’s time to regard the Eddie Parker record as something of an anomaly - if it was pressed in early 1969, then it surely is worth having. The promoters behind the 1969 pressing certainly had belief in the record given the X’s on the labels in thick black marker-pen and the wider distribution.

Although it’s a bit of a blur, I was record hunting in Detroit in 1995, 1996 and 1997 making it to Bob’s several times. A few of the more memorable finds were Dana Valery on Columbia red issue, Jack Montgomery on Barracuda, Connie Questel Give Up Girl on Decca issue and Combinations on Solid Rock. The last record was only VG- but Bob said he had a mint copy someplace which he mailed to me. Bob had quantity of green label Mutt records so I took a couple of Majestees and Carol Jones. The trick with Bob was you had to hang around to dig and dig, then after a while, he’d pull something out from under the counter and say ‘here’s something you might be interested in’. Bob’s store was an Aladdin’s Cave of records, had a leaky roof and was clouded by cigarette smoke as he chain smoked. Again, it’s a blur, but visits to Detroit in 2001 and 2002 were not terribly rewarding as some stores had gone and pickings were thin on the ground.

Yes Matt. One time you were there, I was too. You were sampling away and played Alice Clark - Hit Me. I hoped you were going to leave it but it went in your stack to take away. The experience made me put Alice Clark towards the top of the Wants List and it was soon ticked off.

Not too bad for a disco anthem. Bidding sums like this on John’s auction is a serious business.

Weirdly Curtis Lee sold for roughly what Robby Lawson went for - expected the former to go for much less.

Loadsa set sale prices here - some of these records would have made more sold on Soul Source or Facebook. A couple of GOAT prices too, so John should be reasonably pleased.

Great dancers at the right place at the right time. Cool tune anyone know what it is? Shazam no good on this one. Reminds me a bit of Al Green but it’s got to be Carolinas, surely?

Totally agree. Ted Taylor very common - £400 tops these days. Reatha Reece good and rare so expected it to be higher. Carole Waller was on the high side. John does well catering to the buyer who has a select wants-list but can’t be bothered to shop around on other dealers’ websites.

A minor but nevertheless important point is that the group under consideration is the Shametts (one e, not two). As mentioned earlier, the record is very rare and keenly sought by those in the know. Recent copies have sold for four figure sums - there’s one currently on Discogs... The database also provides a cool photo as shown below.

Not in the same league as Zanetti when it comes to monitoring the auction but here are some screen-shots, those finishing after 6.02 being higher than shown.

The Curse Of Strictly....they’ve watched the series so want to practise for the Summer Balls... Watch out for South Korean formation dancing coming to a venue near you. Perhaps the local Ceroc dance class had been cancelled, who knows? OK to dance in pairs on St Valentines eve after a few drinks I suppose, but really someone needs to tell the exhibitionists to head to the disco over the road.

Don’t know about the latest entry but I’m claiming an early one... First visit in March 1974 just blew me away so I went back the following Saturday. Caught the bus from Culcheth to Leigh then another to Wigan. I arrived about 10 or 11 o’clock, so to kill time, I went into the early disco. The Allnighter started at 2.00 am. in those days so I passed the time watching the locals get more and more pissed. Towards the end of the disco, the lads were dropping their trousers and running around on the dance floor. A few of the lads were playing at dead ants. Definitely one of the more memorable visits to The Casino - also glad when the Beachcomber came to my attention so I never had to experience another disco.

Hi Kev. You can’t be serious... Did they play ‘Ain’t No Sole Left In Those Old Shoes’?

Although the 45 was a giveaway in September 1998, I suspect Ady would have been spinning it in 1997 and 1996 etc, probably as a cut taken from a master tape. In any case, the song would have existed in some format prior to 9/98 and the LV pirates could have stumbled across it having been in the industry since the Woppy Doo days. Although the 45 was pressed for the anniversary, perhaps even in August, copies could have easily gone walkabout from the pressing plant months prior to release. My copy of Towanda Barnes came from John Manship and it sounds better than Sam Williams. Maybe the LV pirates booted copies from a first-issue? The comments re Rosen’s emporium are spot on. I visited the store on many trips and had to bite my tongue too often for comfort. I managed to snag a few bargains but generally paid through the nose for bulk of what I left with. It would be good to know the real story behind Frederick Hymes - was this ever issued by a bona fide label to be bought in stores, or a LV tailor-made for the rare soul scene? I first saw it in Rosen’s shop but it looked dodgy - given these guys have access to a pressing plant, they could have easily manufactured it from scratch QED...