Owd Codger

no problem. I'm no expert on Recording Contracts, but I'm fairly certain that for a Record Company to issue a recording, they must have contracts in place. This is the reason given to Motown Collectors as to why sometimes " in demand" items are not issued. I think the majority of Golden World artists were not " signed" by Motown....They had a surplus of artists so why take artists with no name value on board? Edwin ..yes...several hits...a good investment. San Remo....the Detroit Symphony Orchestra playets....who were already recording at Motown JJ Barnes.....the legend of Motown or Marvin Gaye needing to supress him?? Fantastic Four....popular group in Detroit with some chart clout. But Motown, whilst probably acquiring the Ric Tic/ G W catalogue, saw no commercial gain in the remainder of the artists or tracks. If Motown had shown an interest in releasing old GW tracks, I would have thought Compilations of The Relections hits would have been favourite. The fact that UK Tamla Motown did release tracks by The Reflections, Laura Lee, Al Kent, Mark 111 trio ( Wingate 45) suggests that they did have the masters. As Robb says, unreleased stuff ( Don Davis) was probably not wanted by Motown...if indeed they knew of their existence. It always struck me that the Ric Tic relics LP was a mishmash. EMI probably didn't know what they were sitting on, cashing in but a bit of a poor attempt...who advise them regarding GW/ Ric Tic catalogue.?

Please forgive my memory if I have this wrong. Just checked Soulful kinda music site. Flaming Ember last record on Ric Tic 68 Straight to Hot Wax 69 No Motown recordings

I don't recall Flaming Ember on Rare Earth but I could be wrong. A few Edwin Starr tracks were on Soul Master LP. After that..100% Motown. San Remo had Ric Tic tracks issued on LP. Fantastic Four LP was 100% Ric Tic stuff. Nothing issued at all on JJ Barnes

After the 66 buy out, I think that it was only the Fantastic Four. Flaming Ember never joined Motown. Staffers Richard Morris, Al Kent did join Motown. Of course Al Kent had 45s on Blue "new" Ric Tic ( post 66 buyout). Freddie Gorman returned to Motown and joined The Originald. J.J. Barnes was taken on in the 66 buy out but Motown never issued anything he recorded for them.

According to SDF ( Golden World Story) Motown acquired Myto

Lots of papers/memorabilia were indeed left behind in the Woodward Donovan building when Motown left. Many stories of crates of stuff just thrown away. Some people picked up things that lucky Motown collectors eventually got their hands on

Hello Robb Would that suggest that Motown only wanted tracks associated to Artists whose contracts they acquired, and they were not interested in any previously unissued tracks?

I guess that 's why forums were invented

Hi Rick, It could be that Motown only have the masters of the Artists who contracts were acquired . Whilst it would be nice to get them, it will probably not happen. You'd have thought that Ace/Kent, or similar, would have jumped on this.

Actually, the opposite is true. Golden World studio became increasingly important to Motown as Studio B. This studio was used for vocals, both lead and backing vocals, sweetening such as Strings and horns, overdubs. etc. With increased recording technology, it meant that producers could improve their productions. Golden World's Detroit studio was only in operation for about 18 months before Motown acquired it. Conversion from 3 track to 8 track was required. So, many well loved "Detroit" Golden World classics were actually recorded in New York. The producers, many being of a superstitious nature, continued to record rhythm tracks at Studio A ( Hitsville) were many hits were cut.

I think it was Love , which turned into hate..... Can I say we all owe Mr Godin a tremendous thanks for his role in the Motown story here in the UK (Affected my life from 1967). No Godin, No Tamla Motown....no NS scene as we know it. My theory ( based on a piece I read in one of the many Motown books) was that Godin was blamed for the failure , both commercially and financially , of the 1965 tour . I've read that Godin received the Hairdryer treatment from Barney Ales...his crime, over enthusiasm and over projecting Motown's UK standing in 1964-65. The 65 tour was a disaster in terms of the lack of audiences in theatres up and down Britain. II think it is a reasonable assumption that Ales/ Motown basically fired Godin, and told him his role in the UK operation was no longer required. After all Dave Godin had done for Motown, it would not be surprising if he felt somewhat miffed. Significantly, the Tamla Motown Appreciation Society magazine abruptly disappeared almost immediately after the Tour in 1965. He ran a general soul magazine ...lasted about 3 copies. I believe Mr Godin's view was that , after promoting and launching Motown, the new TM label now meant that his role was now complete and it was his role to support other artists away from Motown Very Possible, but his regular digs at Motown in B&S always smacked of bitterness to me. I particularly liked the Petula Clark complaint.

Perhaps my Dave Godin story is relevant here. When the Ric Tic popularity was at it's peak in the UK ( Circa 1972 ?), Mr Godin wrote a very critical piece in B&S , stating that is was disgusting that Motown was sitting on Ric Tic masters and behaving like a broody hen, whose Chick were never going to hatch ( or something along those lines). i.e. They should be releasing these tracks for UK collectors. When , eventually, UK Tamla Motown did catch up and release J.J. Barnes, San Remo , Laura Lee on TMGs, Godin then complained , again through his column, that it was disgusting that Tamla Motown were issuing these Ric Tic tracks ....and fraudulently passing them off as there own. I wrote a letter to B&S pointing out Godin's hypocracy on this subject, but they didn't respond or print my letter. Mr Godin was critical of Motown on many occasions in his columns. I have a view on that, but not sure it can be substantiated .

As I understand it, Motown acquired the Golden World studios in late 1966. Whilst the myth about competition exists, I suspect that the extra studio facilities that , by 1966, Motown needed, was the primary reason for the buy out......moonlighting musicians perhaps an annoying thing that Gordy wanted ending also contributed. They took the studio on Davison, and the Artists, but took an option on selected Artists...i.e Edwin Starr, J.J. Barnes, , San Remo... but didn't take others. Motown had the masters of Ric Tic/Golden World, but I think only Edwin Starr and San Remo tracks were then released by Motown. So, the reason that no OFFICIAL CD exists of Ric Tic is that Motown has never seen fit to do it. ( the worship of Ric Tic would not have applied to USA collectors in 1966.) Of course EMI UK Tamla Motown issued Ric Tic relics vinyl LP in the early 70s, to cash in on the popularity referred to above. Interestingly, Motown never took ownership of the titles to Golden World/Ric Tic. Apparently Gordy had an non-competition agreement with Ed Wingate meaning that Ed would not open a label registered/ operating in Detroit. As a result, ED, or Joan Bratton registered Ric Tic in an adjoining state, to get around this agreement. These releases are on the Blue Ric Tic. Presumably, the ending of this BLUE label led to Motown having an option, as Fantastic Four , Al Kent etc joined Motown. That's as I understand it....quite happy for any correction.

I was once shopping in a discount store/Garden centre type place. Over the speakers, an old recording of Mr. Searling's CFOS show was playing. I was shocked to hear Richard giving out details of a Soul night that I was running in a local pub, name checking me....this event was about 6 months old. I just hope nobody, upon hearing this recording, turned up expecting a Soul night.

My opinion, which counts for little, is that Mr Godin was bitter with Motown following his 'removal/ quitting , depending on whose view you read, as UK Tamla Representative ( a another topic probably), . He was quite critical of Motown on several issues after previously being their flag bearer, so it doesn't surprise me that he would find fault on this issue.

Yes I guess that it is. But of course if Gordy or Gaye had painted it, the critiscism would have been more valid. I seriously doubt if Gordy had any input regarding this cover.

Thanks for digging this out. Not a lot of detail fromMr Godin, but , as I remembered, he didn't like it, on sensability grounds.

You could be right, although I think it was along the lines of the picture demeaning Black People. Maybe someone has the old B&S.

I regret that I can't recall the exact the details. I must have read it in Blues & Soul circa 1976.

The opening of a New York office may have more of a back story than simply that of Gordy deciding to open one up. Gordy, after divorcing his first wife ( Thelma) just before Motown was really established, established a relationship with Raynoma. Initially this was a working relationship, but it seems that romance intervened. (Especially on her part). She was extremely useful to Gordy , as she was very talented in the field of writing music, arranging , charts etc, vocal coaching etc....useful to Gordy as his new operation was expanding. However, it seems that Raynoma forced Gordy into a marriage that he clearly didn't want, coming off his previous divorce. To the extent that she virtually forced Gordy into a Shotgun Wedding, which saw Gordy running out on her minutes from the Marriage service. Days later he relented, and he agreed to the Marriage. Gordy was at this time heavily involved with a girl called Margaret Norton. He seems to have agreed to marrying Raynoma to keep the Motown operation running smoothly. It seemed a Marriage of convenience. Gordy spent his wedding night with Norton. Gordy continued his affair with Norton. In retaliation, Raynoma had an affair with Sonny Saunders ( Satintones)...maybe others. This situation caused great difficulties around Hitsville. Probably the final straw was when Raynoma followed Gordy and Norton to a bowling alley, producing a revolver from her handbag.. Apparently Smokey intervened and prevented a major incident. Raynoma was shipped out to New York...to all extent, banished from Motown's Detroit offices. The set up of a New York office was Gordy's way of offloading this potentially dangerous situation getting out of hand. The Bootlegging of My Guy of course made Raynoma position untenable . She has been unfairly overlooked in Motown's early history, her musical abilities helpig Motown to progress musically and operationally. However, it seems her plan to turn Gordy ( a serial womaniser) into a 9 to 5 faithful, loyal husband was her undoing.

Seem to recall Dave Godin being unhappy with the use of this picture for the LP. He found something objectionable about the painting.