Robbk

The Jo Armstead/Mike Terry productions on Giant, Tetragrammaton, Phillips, Blue Rock, and a few other labels are tough to know exactly how production was divided between Chicago and Detroit. We DO know that some of the singers were Detroit based, and some were Chicago based, and some recorded vocals in both cities for different records, and Mike Terry came to Chicago to record her Chicago artists, and some tracks, sometimes. The same was true of Mike Hanks working with Chicago's Bob Catron, and Ric Williams working with Mike Terry and Bridges, Knight & Eaton in Detroit. Okeh Records' Chicago office sent Chicago's Little Foxes to Detroit's Mike Terry to record their Okeh record. But, It was New York's Okeh office, who had Mike Terry and Bridges, Knight and Eaton record the backing tracks to the Sandra Phillips Okeh release in Detroit. But, I don't know if they also sent Sandra Phillips to Detroit to record the vocals. Those may have been recorded in New York. The same lack of definitive information is true for Okeh's Johnny Robinson cuts. I think the background tracks were likely to have been cut in Detroit, but Robinson's vocals may have been cut in CBS' studio in Chicago, or New York. They liked to use their own studios. If they just wanted to get "The Detroit Sound" into the record, they were a lot more likely to send a big star on an airplane trip to another city to record the vocals, than they were to send an unknown, like Robinson. Furthermore 7307 was released quite a bit after Carl Davis left Columbia/Okeh, and the Chicago office became a backwater, with New York taking over most of the Soul Music production left. So, Mike Terry may have only done the backgrounds recording in Detroit, and Robinson's vocals were made in New York. I wish I knew if Robinson was based in Chicago, Detroit, or The East Coast. The Chicago-Detroit commute was easy by car, so there was a lot of commuting. Andre Williams, Jimmy Holland (Four Hollidays/Holidays), Bridges, Knight, Eeaton, Ollie McLaughlin, and many others, used to bounce back and forth regularly (even The Funk Brothers did for awhile).

Why is Big Wheel listed here? As far as I always thought (knew?) Big Wheel was a Detroit-based label. As for Don Davis bringing Stax/Volt artists to Detroit to record them, just like Joe Hunter got a production agreement with Don Robey's Houston labels, Don Davis, still operating out of Detroit, got a similar working agreement with Memphis' Stax/Volt. Some Stax/Volt Memphis-based singers, like Carla Thomas, Johnny Taylor, and William Bell got to sing over tracks recorded by Davis in Detroit, and Detroit artists formerly signed to Davis' Groovesville Records, or Solid Hitbound Productions, like J.J. Barnes, Darrell Banks, Roz Ryan, and The Dramatics were signed to Volt Records, and their mostly Detroit recorded (but sometimes partly Memphis-recorded) cuts were released on Volt Records. As I stated above, Billy Hambric was a New York-based singer, Detroit's Don Juan Mancha produced for Drum Records in New York, while he was working with Johnny Terry to try to get financing for recording projects and trying to get record pressing/distribution deals for recordings he'd already produced in Detroit. In addition to getting the deal for his Jack Montgomery(Marvin Jones) record with Flo Greenberg's Scepter/Wand Records, he also got his record by the Honeybees leased to Scepter, and they placed it on their new subsidiary, Garrison Records.

As far as I know, Bobby Williams recorded for Robert West in Detroit (LuPine Records 1962) before recording for Don Robey's labels. And, I'm sure at least several, if not all of his recordings for Sure Shot were recorded by Joe Hunter in Detroit.

This was totally a Detroit-based project, with The owner of Detroit's Travler Lodge/Motels, named Montgomery (I think his first name was Jack-but not positive) financing Don Juan Mancha's and some other Detroit productions, and leasing them to Flo Greenberg's Scepter/Wand/Garrison Records, through connection/agent, New York-based -Johnny Terry (then a member of The Drifters). Terry was the conduit for several Detroit producers to get their record projects' recordings leased to New York labels. The singer, with the stage name, "Jack Montgomery", was really a Detroit artist named Marvin Jones. So, this was NOT a case of a big out-of-town record company sending their own signed East Coast-based artist to Detroit. It was a Detroit producer trying to get his project funded by someone who could distribute the resultant record nationally.

Yes, somehow I did. Sorry. I meant to quote from Wilxy's original post on this thread, where he mentioned that some Detroit recordings ended up on American Arts. And I was pointing out that the Detroit productions that ended up on American Arts were Harry Balk's Detroit-based artists, recorded by Balk in Detroit, with recordings leased to American Arts, because the owner of that label was financing Balk's productions, and it wasn't the situation of interest that Wilxy had described of non-Michigan record companies sending their signed artists to Detroit to take advantage of the accomplished Detroit sound engineers, producers, arrangers and musicians.

Harry Balk was friendly with the owner of Pittsburgh's American Arts Records, so he made a production deal to lease his Detroit productions on his Detroit artists to that label. It's not like out-of-towners came to Detroit to use their facilities and musicians. Balk and Mikhanic would have used those same facilities and arrangers, and musicians, and Detroit singers, whether or not they had a financier from Detroit or Pittsburgh. It was similar when he leased his Detroit productions on The Volumes to New York's Old Town, or leased those on The Parakeets to Jubilee, or when Fred Brown leased his Detroit productions on Ortheia Barnes to New York's Coral Records, etc. ,etc. I could list hundreds of such cases. There were many, many fewer cases of out-of-town record companies sending non-Detroit artists to Detroit to use Detroit's sound facilities and/or arrangers and songwriters, and producers, such as Imperial sending The O'Jays, Wand sending Chuck Jackson, Platters' Musicor background tracks recorded in Detroit studios; 20th Century Fox sending Mary Wells to Detroit (rather letting her record in her own city of residence), for her old ex-Motown colleagues (Robert Bateman and Andre Williams); Chicago's Ric Williams of Zodiac/Aquarius/Boo sending Ruby Andrews(Stackhouse) and The Brothers of Soul/Creations and Candace Love to The Brothers of Soul's home town(Detroit) to record; Chicago's Bob Catron of Cortland/Witch/Ermine Records sending Geraldine Hunt to Mike Hanks in Detroit to record; and Chicago's Joshie Armstead sending several of her Chicago artists to Detroit to be recorded by Detroit's Mike Terry at United Sound Studio and, maybe another studio or 2.

Whoever said that has NO ears (or is deaf). Jimmy Soul Clark has an extremely unique voice and tone, and is very easy to recognise. Jimmy Mack's voice sounds VERY, VERY, VERY different from Clark's. Clark has a very nasal delivery that makes his voice sound thicker and fuller than Mack. I still would bet the Palmer guy is Chicago's arranger/musician/few times singer, James Mack, until there is proof it's someone else. Listen to all Jimmy Clark's recordings. He has a much higher register than Jimmy Mack (whose voice is thinner, but deeper). No way they are the same man. Whoever thought of that did so only because both are named Jimmy, and Soulhawk was distributed by Palmer.

A White Rock-A-Billy guy from Detroit's Hillbilly Ghetto!!! No wonder I didn't recognise this record! 🤪

Detroit's Jimmy Mack "D" looks to have been named "Jimmy (Mack) Dunkley", as J. Dunley is the songwriter, and Dunkley is the publisher. Maybe his real name was James MacDunkley or McDunkley? Which would make him a different person from all the other Jimmy Macks, except, possibly the Palmer artist, because they would be the only 2 recording for labels based in Detroit. Just a thought.

Yes, I believe The Group's manager mentioned in an interview, that he took his Toledo, Ohio group to Detroit, to record. Of course, we know that Ernest Burt's Magic City Studio was formerly Wilbur Golden's Correc-Tone Studio, at 8912 Grand River Ave.

Those vocals by Luther were recorded in New York. I'm pretty sure the music tracks to The Hurdy Gurdy were recorded in New York. I'm not sure about the Smash Record. If I remember correctly, I've seen it written by usually reliable sources that the music tracks were both recorded in New York, but also that they were recorded in Detroit. So, I guess it is safe to assume that Luther recorded the vocals for the Smash cuts in New York, and the instrumentals were either cut totally in New York, or split between New York and Detroit between different tracks in one place or the other, or started in one city, and finished (Including mixing) in the other.

Yes. That's right. They were fairly early in Correc-Tone's operations, when they already ran into cash flow problems. It was an earlier trip to New York for Bateman. I got it mixed up with Bateman's second trip, when he leased The Pyramids to VJ, and several recordings to Double-L, and got the distribution deal with Atlantic.

Laura Johnson was Correc-Tone Records' office secretary, and contracted singing artist. So was Marva Josie (although she resided in Toronto at that time. The Donays were also a Detroit group, and resided in Detroit. The reason they ended up on Bob Shad's Brent and Time New York-based labels was because Robert Bateman (Correc-Tone's A&R man and Chief producer (They also had Popcorn Wylie, and Don Juan Mancha) took a trip to New York in early 1963, to get national pressing and distribution deals with larger record companies there. They had been produced in Detroit, but Correc-Tone and its owner, Wilbur golden, had cash flow problems at that time, and they didn't have the money to press up those three records, and market them, even regionally. So Golden hoped to use the cash infusion from the lease proceeds to fund production of other recording projects he and Bateman had planned. As it turned out, several of them were leased out, as well, including The Pyramids second record, a Buddy lamp, and Herman Griffin record, as well as Marva Josie's follow up.

I think that Bateman and Wylie recorded the tracks in Detroit, but I doubt that Roddy Joy also came to Detroit to record the vocal. But, I guess it is possible, because I've been told that they did bring Luther Ingram to Detroit to record his HIB cut.

In late 1964, or the beginning of 1965, Detroit's Joe Hunter made a deal with Don Robey, to produce recordings on several of Robey's Houston-based artists, with Duke, Peacock, BackBeat and Sure-Shot Record labels. Some of them were totally, or partially recorded in Houston, at Robey's usual facilities, and others in Detroit, recorded at United Sound. Although not positive about which were recorded where (other than a handful in Detroit, I'd guess that about two thirds (or, at least 60%) of them were recorded in Detroit. But, we know that he also recorded a fair amount in Houston, because he mentioned that he liked the relaxed atmosphere in the Houston facilities as compared to Motown. The artists included Bobby Bland, Buddy Lamp, Bobby Williams, and several others. Some of Robey's artists resided in Detroit, and didn't record for Robey's labels before his deal with Hunter, so I believe their signing to Robey's labels came as a result of their production deal.

Most (almost all) of the nationally distributed labels headquartered outside Detroit, who released records by Detroit artists, did so by leasing Detroit productions recorded in Detroit by Detroit producers. So, several of the responses to the OP don't really meet the spirit of his original request. He stated: "As a "Born Again Detroit" collector (specifically) for the last 20 years anyway, and having read some superb articles by some very well versed Soul Source contributors in relation to the Motor City over the years, I have been intrigued by the information gleaned regarding to "out of town artist(e)s utilising the superb recording facilities in Detroit!" He did NOT ask for Detroit producers' Detroit productions and recordings of Detroit artists, leasing those recordings to out-of-state record companies. there are too many of the latter to list here, and not interesting, as they were all done for the same reason, to get their songs heard by the national audience, rather than the tiny local, or small regional audiences. He wanted to find out which out-of-state record companies brought their artists to Detroit to record, and take advantage of Detroit's stable of excellent musicians, arrangers, recording engineers, recording studios, and sometimes, rent the use their producers, as well.

There are. Robert Bateman and Andre Williams recorded Mary Wells in Detroit for 20th Century Fox Bateman and Wylie recorded New York's Luther Ingram in Detroit for their HIB Records Wand recorded New York's some of Chuck Jackson last Wand recordings (1965-66?) in Detroit Don Davis (in very late 1961) recorded Ohio's O'Jays in Detroit and leased their cuts to New York's Apollo Records Years later (1965-66), Imperial had The Ojays record in Detroit produced by Don Davis' Solid Hitbound Productions

That is correct! Hambric was a New York singer who had recorded for Bobby and Danny Robinsons' labels. His Drum record, produced and written by Detroiter, Don Juan Mancha, was produced while Don was on a long visit to New York to meet his old Motown colleague, Robert Bateman, and to work with his deal finding middleman agent, The Drifters' Johnny Terry, to try to procure financing for Detroit productions he'd already recorded in Detroit, and to garner future production and distribution deals from record companies with national distribution. I've read an interview with Mancha in which he told the story of how he and Terry got the Trav-Ler Production deal with Scepter Wand, and how the Billy Hambric project happened. He wrote the songs for Hambric while in New York, but they couldn't get a deal for recording with a big, national label, so had to settle for getting a small-time financier for a one-off, small locally distributed New York label. I think they recorded it at Bell Sound. I don't think they got New York's best recording Soul band led by Richard "T", and with Pretty Purdie on drums, and many of New York's best Soul/R&B/Jazz musicians. So, the songwriting sounds somewhat like a Mancha Detroit song, but the instrumental doesn't sound all that much like it was recorded in a Detroit studio, played by Detroit musicians. Lots of Robert Bateman's New York productions, with instrumentals played by Richard T's band, sound like Motown (they were Jobete NY's in-house band), or they sound like Golden World/Ric-Tic, or they sound like Don Davis' Thelma or Groovesville, or like his Solid Hitbound recordings. They were "The Funk Brothers", or "Wrecking Crew" of New York, and The East Coast, and Carl Davis' band in Chicago.

That's the address of where his house was when I visited him from 1969-78 or so.

Reed was a major songwriter and sometimes arranger for Carl Davis, especially for The Artistics, Chi-Lites, Billy Butler, and Barbara Acklin at Brunswick, and Davis' Dakar an Bashie labels. I think he may have sung on several Artistic cuts, too. He was also in the Pieces of Peace group.

Exactly! Renee was Leo Austell's label, and Lamaja was his publishing company. Louis Satterfield was Chicago's best bassist during the 1960s. He was The James Jamerson of Chicago. From the sharing of the two publishing rights, I gather that Marc was a joint-venture label between the two, OR, Austell was strapped for money, but wanted to re-release Eddie Sullivan's record, so he leased it to Satterfield. I think the Marc pressing was one or 2 years later than the Renee issue, because I only saw it a couple years later. Austell was involved in many labels where he was part of a partnership.

I'd bet that Renee was first. During my 20 years of record scrounging after its release, I have seen many more of the Renee issue. So, I suspect that the Marc version is rarer. And, remember that I was based out of Chicago when it was released, and saw many more at that time. In fact, I had NEVER seen the Marc issue, until years later, when another collector found one. So, I have reason to believe the Renee version was released first.

ALL the promos of this issue that I've ever seen were styrene. Their print was ALL black, as opposed to both black and red on store stock issues.

I'm sure I have at least one or two John Bennings secular releases on Savoy, as well as on Savoy Gospel series. I have one from 1958, on the maroon 1500 series, titled "Who Cares". I think it is Savoy 1542. I also seem to remember having a couple in the blue-coloured Savoy Gospel Series.

I'd guess they are no relation, as Hillyard is a fairly common name in Canada, as it is in Britain. But I wouldn't rule it out, altogether, as a lot of much stranger coincidences have happened.