Ian Dewhirst

Blimey. Can't believe this has suddenly gone rare. It used to be quite common back in't day. I'm pretty sure my mate's got a 12" knocking around....... Ian D

Now that is horrifying! I'd be interested to know what the insurance people say. Were they insured as rarities? And was it a basement? Ian D

Yep, never clean records when you're hyped-up for a set. I've been known to rip door handles off in my excitement to get to a gig and caused many a minor accident to myself when over-enthused. The could have been my old copy Steve.......another one bites the dust....... Ian D

First white promo I've ever seen! Shame about the crack LOL. Yep. That's right up there with the worst of 'em. My condolences Mark. Ian D

Totally spoils it for me too. I seem to spend a lot of my time now queuing to go out into some ridiculously impractical area simply to have a cigarette. It's absolutely killing most of the (former) places I used to go. Given the choice between freezing my balls off outside and feeling like a social pariah, I'd rather be round at either my gaff or someone elses where the rules are a bit more relaxed and we can do what we want in a relaxed fashion. So, house parties are the way forward. Or promoters could think more along the lines of hiring a private space where these rules don't apply. Mind you, I've met a whole heap of other pariahs since this thing started! I'm not generalising but in many cases club goers tend to be the fun, slightly neurotic, buzzy types like me who are born clubbers and often the life and soul of a place, so it's a shame that we're now being disciminated against. Can't tell you the amount of places I've been just lately where the action has been in the smoking area LOL. I met so many good people in the outside smoking area @ the Forum the other week it was almost like a private party...... Ian D

LOL!

Well said! My sentiments exactly. THIS is precisely what I was getting at when the thread started. As I said before there's not an inexhaustable supply of these records hence the astronomical cost of many of them. In a few years time people will be lamenting the fact that there are no decent copies around of the rarest of the rare! I'll give you a good example. In the late 60's and early 70's there was a scene in Belgium which favoured lots of early almost bluesy instrumentals - they went for things like "East Side" - the B side of "Elijah Rocking With Soul" - Hank Jacobs and "Gonzo" - James Booker etc, etc. For a few years the biggest and rarest record on that scene was called "Heartless Lover" by the Dick Baker Combo on Kool Kat (from L.A. not the same label as Joe Mathews). They had one cracked, beat up copy which played terribly but it had still become the most expensive and desired record on that scene. The result was that the Belgium collectors were willing to pay £2000 in 1976 for a copy - the equivalent of £15K at todays prices. I found a copy in a box of records at a hardware market in East L.A. (along with 2 Terrible Tom's, I Johnny Caswell and 50 Eloise Laws). The guy from Belgium flew over to L.A., handed the dosh over and put the record in a metal 7" record case. I asked him what he was going to do with it and he said he was going to make a few dubs (or carvers) of it and then preserve it because they'll probably never find another copy and they'd lived with an almost unplayable beaten up copy until that point. Smart move IMHO. These records are RARE! They should be cherished as such. Ian D

Valid nonetheless! My gut feeling is that is that things will have to evolve and there'll probably be an uneasy period in a few years time where it'll be a combination of vinyl and CD. There'll probably be a younger generation who are not as enamoured with the original vinyl as we are. It makes sense - I was never a big fan of 78's - they were yesterday's news for me and I'm sure a fresh generation coming onto the scene may not be so enamoured with 45's. For the most part they wouldn't be able to afford them anyway LOL..... I remember going to the Rocket in Holloway a few years back which, in my opinion, had all the ingredients to be one of the best Northern venues ever. The first night was ram-packed with around 1500 people in I believe. The place was full of a combination of die-hard Northern fans, Mods and London fashionista youth all set for a great time. The buzz was incredible. But then DJ politics got in the way and instead of a brilliant buzzing night it turned into a damp squib which didn't cater to the audience because some of the DJ's were on an ego trip and the night ended up falling flat. The venue closed to Northern shortly thereafter and an opportunity to re-invigorate the scene was lost. Bye bye a brilliant All-Nighter venue and 1500 punters who were looking for a great time. I get the point entirely about love of vinyl - I've got 20K of the buggers here, but to me, it's always been about taste and I don't think that can be replicated so easily. I honestly think it's all about the music - so much the better if it's on a rare 45 but really I just want great music whatever the format. Ian D

Blimey. I hope not. But there is a massive amount of change going on in the wider Music Biz at the moment which is devastating traditional practises and revolutionising things very fast - for better or worse. Worse in my opinion - I'm worried. I think the worse thing that could happen, is if the Northern scene became too insular and eventually reduced down to a collector's-only type scene who met once a month in the back room of a pub and admired each other's records. I think that would be the kiss of death.... You never know. The wider availability of Northern stuff and easier accessibility of it may spread it faster to a new generation of enthusiasts. A couple more Lambrini, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Boots type ads may even be doing it already. One of the best gigs I've been to in the last couple of years was a Gaz's Rockin' Blues gig which was packed full of youngsters who, shock horror, actually dressed-up, danced all night and looked extremely lively and enthusiastic with Gaz's mixture of R'n'B, Soul and Northern-ish stuff for the most part. Again, it was the inspired choice of music which made the atmosphere. I doubt whether any of them actually gave a shit what format the tunes were being played on! Ian D

Both. Norman plays quite an eclectic selection so he'll be well-armed on both formats. Ian D

Well, it is isn't it. Always been cool for me and always will. But again, it's probably the half-dozen or so kids that hang around the decks being interested that are propogating that view - the future vinyl obsessives if you like. The other 98% of people in the rest of the club won't be looking at what format the deejays playing I wouldn't have thought - they'll be dancing, getting off their heads or getting pissed I expect LOL.... Ian D

I think it's probably more of an image thing with certain scenes - especially the more serious ones. I think we're not far off the time when gigs or DJ's on some gigs (especially Northern) will be advertised as 'Vinyl Only'. But I feel that it's a little like putting a finger in a dyke, if you 'scuse the expression LOL... The last time I went to Ibiza for instance I didn't see ANYONE playing vinyl and I went to pretty much all of the clubs - it was all CD and Laptop. The switch to digital on mainsteam club stuff is almost complete with most DJ's downloading the various tracks and mixes they want. Even club promotion these days now seems to be getting towards all digital - vinyl's become too expensive to press for a dwindling market.... Additionally the world's biggest vinyl distributor, Amato collapsed last week which was another nail in the coffin.... It just makes me wonder what'll happen in, say, 10 or 15 years time though. Original Northern copies will be stratospherically expensive, there won't be any such thing as a mint copy and many of the ones in circulation will be almost worn out and irreplaceable, so what then? It's not like there's an inexhaustable supply of 'em...... Ian D

Haha LOL. Me too Blake. By the way, I don't suppose you could sort me out a good MP3 of Marva Hicks could ya? And maybe send it via YouSendIt. The last one wasn't that great and for some reason I could never get it into my Media Player. Bloody computers....never trust 'em.....not like good old vinyl LOL.... Cheers. Ian D

That sounds suspiciously like a Dave Thorley excuse LOL! (see above in thread) I always made sure, first and foremost, that my records - the tools of my trade at the time, were ALWAYS stowed away but there again I'm holier than thou LOL..... Ian D

Good examples Barry. 99% of kids today are really not bothered about physical formats - one of the key reasons for the massive decline in CD & vinyl sales. We're heading into a digital future whether we like it or not I'm afraid...... Ian D

Human error rears it's ugly head again! How could you leave 2 x 12"x12" 100 count boxes in a car park, I ask myself? Were you as careless with your first love LOL...... Ian D

Agreed. The digitisation process definitely compresses the sound in many cases but I don't think the majority of audiences would even notice, believe me. Once again, this reinforces my theory about Northern Soul being the last bastion of the vinyl obsessive. It's slightly comparable to that whole Betamax/VHS debate from the 80's on visual media. The Betamax format killed VHS stone dead (as did Laserdisc) but no one was interested bar the real obsessives. Same thing when I was running Simply Vinyl. The enthusiasts were very vocal in their almost religious fanaticism about the vinyl format. But the market was tiny and eventually petered out altogether. The youngsters weren't bothered either - the average age of the Simply Vinyl customer was 45! Sad but true. Ian D

Well since it is in fact the Greatest Record Of All Time I can imagine that they would have to meet the demand. But the promos beat 'em by a good couple of years at least in that case. There was only one known copy for a good 9 months to a year after Levine found it - I know 'cos I had the 2nd one......... Was it you that put one in a toaster on another thread? Or was that modernsoulsucks LOL.... Ian D

Phew. Thank the Lord for that! Well done that man 'modernsoulsucks' and good luck with the hearing aid. Anyway, Stuart, I owe you a drink for that plus Steve Rumney sends his dearest regards and wouldn't mind meeting up for a drink as well. So since it's the season of goodwill to all men and forgiveness for any perceived Othello Robinson injustice can I suggest you PM me and maybe we can rope in the two Steves and meet up for a dwinky? Ian D

No hisses, pops, blips, jumps or crackle either! Ian D

The original point was why risk, say, a styrene press of a £5K super-rarity which will get chopped up after being played numerous times on different decks. This has just been nicely discussed in another thread about terrible accidents with rare records with instances of rarities being destroyed by dodgy decks. Although the thread has twisted and mutated into a healthy discourse as to the relative merits of different formats, as all good threads should, the basic thrust was would Northern Soul audiences accept alternative formats to vinyl and I think the overwhelming response has been NO. Northern Soul is quite reasonably addicted to vinyl. Which is fair enough. I'm as guilty as the rest of us in that respect. But I'm also aware that the world is changing, sometimes faster than many of us would like. Also the majority of Northern Soul has already been digitised for CD releases, so I think there's a certain amount of snobbery involved in owning the originals. I think I've said earlier that the act of owning original vinyl is like 'a badge of honour' for many - almost like it confirms the passion of the owner. But these days it also involves having a lot of disposable income doesn't it? Also I note with interest that one of the world's top collectors (if not THE top one) has recently digitised his own collection and sold off most of his originals. Is he any less of a soul fan because of it? And, yes, Bearsy it's nuts to do a carver of a perfectly good CD or digital copy unless you just want to fit it into a 7" record box. It'll cost you £20 just to make it look like a 7" with a lesser sound quality! So maybe it's peer pressure? Would anyone dare turn up at a gig with a laptop? I dunno but we're living in interesting times LOL....... Ian D

I can't remember that! Are you sure Stuart? If I did it was a one-off 'cos I've never chipped any of my own records LOL... Please accept my humble apologies (but NOT at today's prices)! And that's what I love about digital files - no hisses, pops, farts, cracks or clicks and.....oh shit....my motherboard's crashed......... Ian

I don't think they are. Only the promos were around for the first few years - not a pink one in sight. If they were as old as the promos, then where were they all that time? Ian D

The decks at Samanthas in Sheffield were notorious for destroying styrene presses! If I were seriously collecting today's ultra-rarities I honestly don't think I'd risk playing 'em unless the equipment was up to scratch. Mind you - you can't always tell..... I wish you'd put this in the other thread about playing rare records out 'cos this is EXACTLY what I was getting at. It's nice playing these goodies out but you have to live with the hiss forevermore......... Ian D

At least it's only a re-press! Ian D