Just finished reading a book called the Soul Stylists. Its a bright & breezy read, mainly a collection of anecdotes covering the history of mods.

Modernism started in the jazz clubs in Soho in the 50s and is still going today, apparently.

The book has a chapter on Northern Soul - and gives the impression that the mods of the 60s evolved into the northern soulies of the 70s - and that evolved into the casuals of the 80s.

I'm not too sure about that. Have always thought of the northern scene as a standalone scene not a progression of another scene.

Whilst I appreciate that its not really a debate worth losing any sleep over - I was wondering what other people might think?

Without the Mod Scene there would never have been a Northern Soul scene I'm sure about that.

Although I'm sure the Mod Scene would take issue on having influence on the Northern Scene's dress sense :-)

totally agree with Reg...the Soul Stylist is a fantastic book...very informative...Delxxx...

Without the Mod Scene there would never have been a Northern Soul scene I'm sure about that.

Although I'm sure the Mod Scene would take issue on having influence on the Northern Scene's dress sense :-)

I don't know about that - the early 70s Suede look sported at the latter end of the Wheel and onto the Torch was a direct influence.

If your talking about people getting stuck in a 'fashion' rut, and trying to relive their youth through wearing what they did in their teens as their approaching their 40s/50s/60s then, yep again, the Mod scene has a direct influnce....

Without the Mod Scene there would never have been a Northern Soul scene I'm sure about that.

Although I'm sure the Mod Scene would take issue on having influence on the Northern Scene's dress sense :-)

Here is a quote from Ian Dewhirst in the book......"There were 7 lads there with custom blazers, all with Torch logos on them"

Seem to remember were pretty fussy about our clothes......

totally agree with Reg...the Soul Stylist is a fantastic book...very informative...Delxxx...

I agree too, this is one of the best books I have read that analyses and traces the threads of British youth culture. I also particularly like Weller's introduction where he thanks the 'the black race for inspiring it all' nice touch that, although I have not seen the book for a couple of years and it maybe possible that I am imagining that! Can you or anybody confirm that aspect?

Just finished reading a book called the Soul Stylists. Its a bright & breezy read, mainly a collection of anecdotes covering the history of mods.

Modernism started in the jazz clubs in Soho in the 50s and is still going today, apparently.

The book has a chapter on Northern Soul - and gives the impression that the mods of the 60s evolved into the northern soulies of the 70s - and that evolved into the casuals of the 80s.

I'm not too sure about that. Have always thought of the northern scene as a standalone scene not a progression of another scene.

Whilst I appreciate that its not really a debate worth losing any sleep over - I was wondering what other people might think?

I think there is some connection between the original mod scene and the development of northern. However, the casual scene definately didn't evolve out of northern. It doesn't/didn't have a particular musical style associated with it. Indeed, most "casuals" I've known weren't even into soul (although a few were). I thought that chapter on "causals" in the book was crap by the way. Millwall dressed in panama hats and spats

I agree too, this is one of the best books I have read that analyses and traces the threads of British youth culture. I also particularly like Weller's introduction where he thanks the 'the black race for inspiring it all' nice touch that, although I have not seen the book for a couple of years and it maybe possible that I am imagining that! Can you or anybody confirm that aspect?

I will have to dig my copy out...to have a look..but what is interesting about the whole concept..was how the Modernist scene appeared as early as the late 40s ..the attitude....fashion ...music ...folk looking for something different and away from the norm...and as a movement it grew very silently..a sort of quiet rebbellion within society....Delxxx

A must- have book for all those who really want to comprehend what being part of an underground 60's cult movement was all about.Coincidentily i 've just lent my copy to a young female workmate who i notice is becoming mod in her fashion/hairstyle.Looking forward to hearing what she thinks of it from a youngsters point of view.

I think there is some connection between the original mod scene and the development of northern. However, the casual scene definately didn't evolve out of northern. It doesn't/didn't have a particular musical style associated with it. Indeed, most "casuals" I've known weren't even into soul (although a few were). I thought that chapter on "causals" in the book was crap by the way. Millwall dressed in panama hats and spats

Absolutely spot on. Always thought Pablos musing on Casuals were way off the mark. The idea that Casuals came from Mod doesnt hold much water, especially if you take the Northern view (Scallies, Perries etc). . On the music link I can remember around 85 when some indie band tried to become attached to casuals with them all FilA Bjd up this blatant marketing Just didn't cut it.

Although used to see lots of dressers at Leicester Oddfellows and Clifton Hall and a fair few of the Forest / Derby mob were into Northern. But more because they were into the music rather than any connection between the two 'yoof' cults.

I think there is some connection between the original mod scene and the development of northern. However, the casual scene definately didn't evolve out of northern. It doesn't/didn't have a particular musical style associated with it. Indeed, most "casuals" I've known weren't even into soul (although a few were). I thought that chapter on "causals" in the book was crap by the way. Millwall dressed in panama hats and spats

I'll let you know if that is true - they are playing Staines in the cup next week.

They have already upset the residents on the local newspaper chat forum - they have threatened to come down & pee on the petunias

They have already upset the residents

I'm sure Staines will have a few boys out

some indie band tried to become attached to casuals with them all FilA Bjd up

Flowered up?

Flowered up?

No not Flowered Up of weekender fame. A few years before them. Proper marketed themselves as a casual band but can't for the life of me remember the name.

Big H, if you're reading this can you remember who that numpty band was?

No not Flowered Up of weekender fame. A few years before them. Proper marketed themselves as a casual band but can't for the life of me remember the name.

Big H, if you're reading this can you remember who that numpty band was?

Arite Byrney they were called Accent, totally cashed in on the whole casual look, filas, cerrutti, pringle etc, but they were a couple of years off the mark, by then those in the know had moved away from sportswear

Arite Byrney they were called Accent, totally cashed in on the whole casual look, filas, cerrutti, pringle etc, but they were a couple of years off the mark, by then those in the know had moved away from sportswear

Cheers H... Accent , Saw Pepsi and Ali at Chez's 50th. You were missed mate pm-in you now

Absolutely spot on. Always thought Pablos musing on Casuals were way off the mark. The idea that Casuals came from Mod doesnt hold much water, especially if you take the Northern view (Scallies, Perries etc). . On the music link I can remember around 85 when some indie band tried to become attached to casuals with them all FilA Bjd up this blatant marketing Just didn't cut it.

Although used to see lots of dressers at Leicester Oddfellows and Clifton Hall and a fair few of the Forest / Derby mob were into Northern. But more because they were into the music rather than any connection between the two 'yoof' cults.

i was into the music then into the casual football scene , loads of us started to go to wharehouse parties and clubs like quadrent park , shellys , the hacienda , so if you want you

could say the scene progrest on to the acid house and rave scene ,,,

if you think about it the casuals were very similar to the mods in the way they dressed , the latest clothes the latest footware the latest hair style

mod is meant to mean modern isnt it ,, how modern do they feel nowadays eh

Edited November 24, 200915 yr by loma 1

Here is a quote from Ian Dewhirst in the book......"There were 7 lads there with custom blazers, all with Torch logos on them"

Seem to remember were pretty fussy about our clothes......

Certainly were! That was circa '71 in a pub in Cleckheaton or thereabouts at a Motown Night. The sartorial elegance of the Torch regulars stood out like a beacon of shining light on a pissing down Wednesday night in Cleckheaton. Soulboys were pretty dapper back then.......

Ian D

i was into the music then into the casual football scene , loads of us started to go to wharehouse parties and clubs like quadrent park , shellys , the hacienda , so if you want you

could say the scene progrest on to the acid house and rave scene ,,,

if you think about it the casuals were very similar to the mods in the way they dressed , the latest clothes the latest footware the latest hair style

mod is meant to mean modern isnt it ,, how modern do they feel nowadays eh

Went to both Shelly's and Hac myself (Shelly's was a messy place ) , drove over to Quad park once but we all thought it seemed to be a bit clueless and we ended instead at a party in L8.

The latest fashion, haircut etc followed a similar ideal as Mods (perhaps Teds before them?) but that's as far as the link goes. PH tries to draw a lineage between Mod and Casual which isn't there IMO.

I do think there's much more evidence for Casual leading onto Acid House. Most of the lads I know ended up on the house scene in some way or another, me included.

Your final comment reminds me of an article in Chris Fletchers Mag late 70s / early 80s by Soul Sam on Mods. As I remember he raised the question that Mod revivalists can't really be Mods as they were looking backwards rather than forward ... or something like that

i was into the music then into the casual football scene , loads of us started to go to wharehouse parties and clubs like quadrent park , shellys , the hacienda , so if you want you

could say the scene progrest on to the acid house and rave scene ,,,

if you think about it the casuals were very similar to the mods in the way they dressed , the latest clothes the latest footware the latest hair style

mod is meant to mean modern isnt it ,, how modern do they feel nowadays eh

I'd agree that the casual scene had echoes of cutting edge smartness and style that were present in earlier working class fashions, including mods. Unfortunately, these were not black echoes. The original post highlighted the possibility that casuals evolved from northern soul, which clearly was not the case (although Ian Hough in Perry Boys seems to think it was in Manchester). The only possible connection I can see with soul is the flicker haircut, which was also a favourite on the southern soul scene in the late 70s. That said, it was also a favourite in Her Majesty's Borstals