Hope this isnt too stupid a question but here goes...Is it ALWAYS possible to spot a bootleg?,is there ALWAYS a clue however tiny?

Hope this isnt too stupid a question but here goes...Is it ALWAYS possible to spot a bootleg?,is there ALWAYS a clue however tiny?

Best thing to do if you not sure of what your buying is to get a copy of John Manships guide to bootlegs.

Hope this isnt too stupid a question but here goes...Is it ALWAYS possible to spot a bootleg?,is there ALWAYS a clue however tiny?

Kelvin

I think you will be unindated with posts on this thread

I dont buy these days

But back in the old days, boots were a nightmare, R they Rnt they scenario

Didnt have the information thats around today, as Bearsy said Mr Ms boot guide if your not sure

Have to honest when i was a yooot, I didnt now what styrene was, never sure if it was a good idea to ask the more established sellers, usualy got a sarcastic laugh and look as if to say, fook me do know what your talking about :angry: , and i have no doubt folks are still coming across records they are unsure about to this day

couple that spring to mind for me were

Tomangoes I Realy Love You on the yellow washpan

Gloria Jones Tainted Love on the Black champion

Frankford stamps and matrix numbers information wasnt there at the time, well not to me anyway

Trouble is you don't take your boot guide out (well i don't).. so when you go through a box at a do and theres something in ther that your after and its £20/£30 cheaper you think your getting a bargin live and learn... or maybe i'm the only idiot on here...

Trouble is you don't take your boot guide out (well i don't).. so when you go through a box at a do and theres something in ther that your after and its £20/£30 cheaper you think your getting a bargin live and learn... or maybe i'm the only idiot on here...

If soul source was a village

very true though so just try to do your homework before you go out searching and i suppose your limiting your chances of getting it wrong,

Hope this isnt too stupid a question but here goes...Is it ALWAYS possible to spot a bootleg?,is there ALWAYS a clue however tiny?

If you know your stuff it is usually easy to spot bootlegs, especially with the help of guides, but ALWAYS? The answer must be no. There are boots of records that are not generally known and that are very close to the originals. What about the supposed little known good looking boot of James Fountain on Peachtree for instance? Andy Rix wrote a lot about it on some forum, a number of years ago, argh..., time really flies and I'm getting old... . It is also theoretically possible to produce good authentic looking counterfeits, even today. Another good reason to stay clear of the same old same old. Stay safe and stick to lesser known records that have not ( as far as we know...) been booted, he, he...

P.S. Don't get me wrong, many of the best records EVER are well known established northern soul oldies, often old Wigan, Torch, etc. spins. Just so that you all know how I feel.

P.S. 2... I'm drunk, and so on..., and my head is spinning at around 79 miles per hour, always a good time to visist and write at forums.

Edited May 23, 200718 yr by Guest

Hope this isnt too stupid a question but here goes...Is it ALWAYS possible to spot a bootleg?,is there ALWAYS a clue however tiny?

Here is a reverse twist on bootlegs ......

Back in the early 1990s, I went to a collectors fair at Rotherham library .....

There was nothing record wise there , except for one chap with a pile of 45s ( about 40 or so ) , which were not in a box .....

I flicked ( steady ..... ) through them as you do , and as I was only looking at / finding pop records , very nearly put them down ......

The next record was a copy of Bobby Taylor " Oh I've Been Blessed " on VIP ; followed by Keanya Collins " Love Bandit " on Soul Galore , Tobi Legend " Time Will Pass You By " on Eric , Johnny Jay " You Get Your Kicks " on Josie , and Candi Staton " Now You've Got The Upper Hand " on Unity .....

I paid the guy £ 5.00 for the discs , who , as it was getting late , tried to get me to take all the discs for a tenner , but I stated I was only interested in the ones that I had bought ....

When I got home , I was about to put the discs into one of my boxes , when I took another look at the Candi Staton .....

When I first looked at the disc at the fair , I did not take much notice of it ( only taking it out of the sleeve to check the state of the vinyl ) , I just assumed it to be a double sided bootleg ....

The labels were light beige in colour , and both had an hairline S shaped cut from the outer to the inner edge , to which I assumed was a very bad job when they were printed ......

Then I checked the deadwax of the disc - it had matrix stamps , the whole works : this is not a bootleg I thought .....

For the rest of the evening , I kept looking at the disc , much to the amusement of my wife ....

The next day , I rang John M to see if he could shed some light on the disc , and after stating what the disc looked like , matrix stamps etc. and despite being puzzled as to why the labels were beige and not white , he confirmed that it was a pukka demo ; I asked him to put it on his list , in order to see if there would be anyone interested in buying the disc : The disc was on his list for 6 weeks without any interest ......

I later sold it to Tony Carter from Goldthorpe for £ 95.00 .....

Moral of this tale : when contemplating buying a bootleg 45 - check it thoroughly : it might not be the bootleg that you think it is ....

Malc Burton

Edited May 23, 200718 yr by Malc Burton

I remember some time ago there was a thread on here regarding Janie Grant - My Heart Your Heart demos, with pics, can anyone direct me to it as not sure if mine is original or lookalike boot.

Thanks

Grant

Then I checked the deadwax of the disc - it had matrix stamps , the whole works : this is not a bootleg I thought .....

Are matrix stamps usually a good indication of an original or do some boots have matrix stamps as well? I know they usually just scratch the number in but do any bootleggers go to the trouble of stamping them as well? Is a scratched in number always the sign of a boot?

Are matrix stamps usually a good indication of an original or do some boots have matrix stamps as well? I know they usually just scratch the number in but do any bootleggers go to the trouble of stamping them as well? Is a scratched in number always the sign of a boot?

Definitely not - Tamiko Jones on Golden World for instance, never bootlegged but has scratched in number

Are matrix stamps usually a good indication of an original or do some boots have matrix stamps as well? I know they usually just scratch the number in but do any bootleggers go to the trouble of stamping them as well? Is a scratched in number always the sign of a boot?

Matt

quite a few original records with scratched deadwax matix etc

probably cheaper to scratch on any relevent numbers to master plates against having clear concise numbering, just in case you were wondering who or how they got there.

There are no "fixed" rules to spotting bootlegs. The best route in know the ORIGINAl first, then you'll have a much better chance spotting the counterfeit.

No, unfortunately matrix stamps have been faked since well before Northern Soul bootlegs, with rare doo-wop, rockabilly etc..ie the Voices Of East Harlem - cashing in with the "Bell Sound" stamp is not an original! You have just gotta learn your stuff.. and don't be afraid to ask if in doubt.

I was in the fortunate position to grow up in a period when most of the counterfeits were made that gives you a head start. As I've said before I have all the info and scans in place, all I need now is the time..but I will be starting on a new and far superior guide with scans & all the matrix info after the summer.

I desperately need a course in ABODE, if anyone wants to teach me. (i'm not joking)

john

There are no "fixed" rules to spotting bootlegs. The best route in know the ORIGINAl first, then you'll have a much better chance spotting the counterfeit.

No, unfortunately matrix stamps have been faked since well before Northern Soul bootlegs, with rare doo-wop, rockabilly etc..ie the Voices Of East Harlem - cashing in with the "Bell Sound" stamp is not an original! You have just gotta learn your stuff.. and don't be afraid to ask if in doubt.

I was in the fortunate position to grow up in a period when most of the counterfeits were made that gives you a head start. As I've said before I have all the info and scans in place, all I need now is the time..but I will be starting on a new and far superior guide with scans & all the matrix info after the summer.

I desperately need a course in ABODE, if anyone wants to teach me. (i'm not joking)

john

JM

How on earth did you manage to concertrate, with all those cannon balls whisling past you

As I've said before I have all the info and scans in place, all I need now is the time..but I will be starting on a new and far superior guide with scans & all the matrix info after the summer.

I desperately need a course in ABODE, if anyone wants to teach me. (i'm not joking)

I'm guessing you mean Adobe? (The course should be easier to find now )

m

how do you know if youve a boot or styrene etc etc

ask Dave n Bri Pinches to sort it.. works for me, the most knowledgable guys i know or have come across in 30years not just on soul but 78's to modern releases of all genres...bloody anoraks

geeooooordie

i know it doesnt add much light but..hey the information is out there but an earlier post is right, many a dealer and collector can still be fooled by a good counterfeit 4 vandels etc etc

Trouble is you don't take your boot guide out (well i don't).. so when you go through a box at a do and theres something in ther that your after and its £20/£30 cheaper you think your getting a bargin live and learn... or maybe i'm the only idiot on here...

No you`re not..I am.

But it`s true what you`re saying. If the price seems too good to be true, it is. But you do get the odd bargain. Especially from the (temporarily strapped for cash) soulies who tend to come in with their fifty boxes. They need a quick sale.

There are no "fixed" rules to spotting bootlegs. The best route in know the ORIGINAl first, then you'll have a much better chance spotting the counterfeit.

No, unfortunately matrix stamps have been faked since well before Northern Soul bootlegs, with rare doo-wop, rockabilly etc..ie the Voices Of East Harlem - cashing in with the "Bell Sound" stamp is not an original! You have just gotta learn your stuff.. and don't be afraid to ask if in doubt.

I was in the fortunate position to grow up in a period when most of the counterfeits were made that gives you a head start. As I've said before I have all the info and scans in place, all I need now is the time..but I will be starting on a new and far superior guide with scans & all the matrix info after the summer.

I desperately need a course in ABODE, if anyone wants to teach me. (i'm not joking)

john

I fully agree, John. If you had the original and the counterfeit side by side (even to an untrained eye) the difference is obvious. But not so obvious if you`ve never seen an original.

Keep up the good work with the guides. Fascinating stuff.

well i wouldn't know so much but i guess can use guides if needed and ask here. I also don't mind if i am getting promo or demos of songs i like but i not so much into re-issues or as you call them bootleggs