Tlscapital

Not much I'm afraid. But I'm no British releases collector.... £20 / 40 ?

The stamp matrix is machined so it's indeed a genuine acetate.

Exactly. And so I've already submitted these revisions as disclosed here on this matter for both Edith Brown and Sam & Kitty entries on Discogs to learn this morning that they were accepted both. Spread out the truth ! Good golly I feel like I'm on a Holly mission now ! LOL

Same from books (where this 'legend' took root) or all (mainstream too) media (propaganda in disguise), schools and Universities (tainted and made up history and "human science" theories). But likely with those last at least they are edited from a responsible disclosed source able to answer. On tintenet not always. True.

Exactly. The odd factor of the single sided white promo label (ARP pressing only) also tends to indicates further more that his VIP release was never considered a "proper" commercial contender if ever anyway.

No I didn't drop anything. I was asking. Answers given I take. And so I did. Why would I be disrespectful toward Miss Kitty Groove ? How and where ? And if someone found the contemplation of Miss Kitty Grove to possibly be an exotic dancer as my quest could have suggested to be I'm sorry. Such was not my intend. But I don't disgrace exotic dancers as persons necessary as likes of below moral values none the less or unworthy of respect in that regard only.

Thanks a bunch. I was about to PM you (to ask if it was as I thought Kitty on those pics in the Willie Weems article) while I got stuck struggling with other urgent work bits and so you beat me to it. Wonderful. and those extra picks are just... Fantastic ! And to cut short to the 'legend' of Kitty being another alias to Edith Brown sets the record straight once and for good within the family tree of Jack Daniels on top of it. Smooth.

OK well I didn't know who Kitty was. Now I know. I wondered if and you think that...

Am not linking them from the beginning. Only asking if anyone knows better if she could be or not one and the same 'Kitty' girl ? Ohio and Illinois are neighboring States... The New Pilne Lounge advert featuring the Cleveland, OH Rotations and the 'Exotic Miss Kitty' should date from 1970 or 1971. So some 5 years after the Sam & Kitty 45's. The girl picture here above on the right was 'highlighted' with other pictures of her seemingly in the Willie Weems article. Since they look 'similar' enough I juxtaposed them. Could both these be Katherine 'Miss Kitty Grove' Stewart ? Those pictures together with such 'stage' nick-name tells us that this / these girl (s) were 'center stage' attraction (s). Now I get that this quest seems not only 'out of the blue' but also 'out of nowhere' without other solid back-up infos relating both pictures. But one quest seeks exactly that ; facts. Then if not leads to confirm or infirm the possibilities. Besides the 'unlikely' we didn't get a negative. But on the other hand maybe with this Willie Weems article lead we have our Miss Kitty Grove. The link with the first B / W picture is not that relevant to me. To know that Singing Sam was Leon Dandridge and & Kitty was Katherine Stewart is most satisfying for me at least. Now confirmation on the Kitty hat ?

Either not the same Kitty character or a revelation for a "change" of life from the 'cabaret' to be wed and divorced to the 'church'. This prime article gives us different photos of many not pointing who's who but if ever the similitude is as easy (maybe too easy) as striking somehow. Actually they might not be related at all too. But could it...

I realized that. Will ask the moderator to split it into a new thread.

Double Cookin' and Festival Time I could never keep these close in my mind in both incarnations as they're that distant from my heart. Ever since, but doggone you're right they're sitting right up there in the NS TOP500 wall with the Good, the Bad and the Ugly... selective memory... Jo Armstead titles are merely variations on the same words in title in my book. But let's say O-kay-ish... Doni Burdick and Rose Batiste are different recordings. Although both versions are utterly fantastic. Vocally and instrumentally. Top ! Luther was mentioned above. Top too.

Ronnie & Robyn vocal was initially planned as is. The instrumental came out just after. But am not found of the very 'not so soulful' vocals there. And the instrumental is immense so that gets my vote... The unissued Mayfield 'don't start none' as instrumental is weak-ish in comparison. As it is clearly only a backing track instrumental full of 'nothing happens' holes awaiting the vocals it was cut for. Without the necessary vocals fillings it loses my listener's listening attention and to dance to it is a bore IMO. Although the Mayfield Singer "amateurish" vocal treatment is sadly not up to the task either IMO. Title changes for instrumentals over vocals or vice versa are not that many as far as "northern soul" sounds are concerned I reckon. Beside this 'Sidra's Theme' nothing actually comes to mind on the spot...

If ever someone knows for fact that it is or it is not Kitty of Sam & Kitty or has better constructive doubt and or leads 'because and because'... Appreciated.

Not sure a vocal could easily fit over that full-on frantic instrumental of a tune. Luther Ingram 'if it's all...' is a rare prime example of such a smart successful fit. But for the rest most of the times I find the instrumental versions to work better. The Kaddo Strings over the shabby some Duke Browner 'cringing' singing who struggles to stay fit over the powerful drive of the tune is a good example of a not so good fit IMO. Even if the vocal still has the favor of the dee-jays to this day. FWIW I first had my Atlantic issue of 'frantic escape'. My then 'find memory' sticked to it emotionally but once I got a Pameline issue I heard how the louder and deeper mastering worked there. Instantly I sold my Atlantic copy never to regret.

Shing-A-Ling by The Cooperettes could have been the Irma & the Fascinations 'you need love' cut that was previously unissued until issued by goldmine on a Sevens 45. Innocent bystanders 'frantic escape' ?

I know but Miss Kitty Grove...

Taking to OP to a slide two seconds could that (right photo column, middle section to the left) be Kitty from Sam (Singing) & Kitty (grove) 'I've got something good ' fame ?

Singers "natural" classification in tone between bass, baritone or alto is that. But it does not mean evidently that one such 'classified' singer can't sing otherwise in another tone. Even less in the lower or higher tone around their 'natural' set tone. On that Cheerios 'ding dong honeymoon' example we can clearly hear the limit in every sense of Ralph's singing ability to switch from low bass tones to a higher singing bass tone that seems to be his "natural" tone. I'd say he's more of a high bass singer. So if that example shows what Ralph's singing surely the Rotations 'trying to make you my own' is not Ralph indeed. As the lead here is a natural high toned baritone with tight phrasing showing he's at his natural singing here. And really nothing like Morris for me. Such tight and dry phrasing especially is nothing reminiscent of Morris Chestnut singing. Unless Morris wanted to 'impersonate' another singing "character" and prove like some others did his versatility ability in singing if he could... Yet somehow I doubt that from Morris. The quest for this Rotations lead singer keeps on. Likely putting at rest the Attractions Chestnut Connection with this Rotations Mala single. That I first spontaneously went for. The 'who's who' behind that most improbable double sider of one and a same group remains to be disclosed.

Sorry if ever but I meant 'OUR' ears in the generic sense and not yours and mines in particular or in this instance. But yes, OK.

Ineed. The Mala Rotations by ear for the 'trying to make you my own' side is clearly a L.A. product. It's 'A' side 'misty roses' on the other hand is far too weird to sound like anything so specific. If both sides are related at all even. Could be a 'split' 45 covered with some fantasy credits... Leaving only the composer's and arranger's credits for lead with a Bill Justis production badge. By ear the Law-Ton / De Brossard is altogether unmistakably another group than the Frantic's. And although our ears are not hearing the same things they will be fooling until proven wrong. While at it what's your take on my theory of the Vows 'buttered popcorn' being the Contours ?

1958

Thanks for confirming. So both Ralph and Morris Chestnut had similar tone and voices. Even if Morris was the better singer with more aptitude in amplitude and power I still love 'tell me' on VIP. But who were those Rotations on Mala then if they were one and single group ? Or two ? Those late fifties Inspirations both on Jamie and Apollo ? Linked to which Philly labels releases Inspirations ?

Got it. Thanks. Roburt's 'copy & paste' from John Smith's blog on SS. There the three Attractions Bell singles are quoted ! Ha ! I thought I really had hearing's problem when it's 11 out of 10 when I'm at my best. Only 10 out of 10 when I'm not. That's reassuring. Still that does not resolve the Rotations on Mala mystery. I agree. But mind you that it could very well be an odd ball split 45 too. The real 'A' side ''misty roses' is not only sounding to be from another recording session if from the same group at all... The Chestnut malediction ? The Vows on VIP is clearly a record that Berry Gordy didn't want out but heaven only knows why it did as a single sided promotional copy first with an old previously unissued Contours version of 'buttered popcorn' credited to the Vows. Destined to be a miss. That's my theory at least. Or is it a really good Los Angeles Vows copycat of the Detroit Contours old bag style covering an old worthless tune of the Supremes ? That would prove to be the weirdest move to do to kick it in at Motown by 1965... But if they did the fooling on the other end is most effective I reckon. The commercial Vows VIP release got tucked away with the Vows 'tell me' gem on the flip side and many ARP copies got a 'plug side' star shape stamp on the evidently better 'tell me' side. But still that didn't do the trick as it didn't play the expected Motown sound... Could that Rotations on Mala 45 be some odd ball reels split business too to complete a 45 under a same "banner" with a loose spare unissued recording of the Chestnut connection for flip ? But I get that we just don't know and I maybe only guess too hard. Last minute addition revision ; The credited composer of both this Rotations on Mala 45 Jerry Flanagan often worked with Bobby Sanders from 1967 onward and at one other time at least in 1967 with Miles Grayson on the Four Sights single on Shy Soul 'love is a hurting game - that I can't win'. Jerry Flanagan never worked with Anthony C. Renfro though. The Rotation on Mala 'misty roses' side is odd enough to fit the Bobby Sanders related products if ever but still I'd have believe he would have his credit as he was rather well established by then. But not . So if the 'trying to make you my own' side is a Chestnut Connection recording through Ralph Chestnut then it's without the previous Anthony Renfro involvement for sure and under the arrangements of Miles Grayson this time. The mystery remains...

True for the Sound Masters. That I hear and that's why maybe it always failed to really grab me But apparently both Ralph and Morris Chestnut had very similar singings. So evidently without knowing what Ralph actually sang I'm lost there if ever to tell or know any better. Seem to remember reading Robbk on here (working at Motown gave him access to the studio recording session sheet very likely) comments stating that it was Ralph Chestnut at it and not Morris on lead with the Vows 'tell me' on VIP. Could that be the case and if so a legacy confusion kept on... As for the dating intertwine I hear but nothing clashing between recording session and releases if ever. Now listening again to the Attractions 'why shouldn't man cry' again I hear more similarities with the Rotations 'trying to make you my own' and with it similarities with Morris singing but then not. And so maybe it is actually his cousin Ralph there... Still The Chestnut Connection... Maybe only ? After so many listening sessions of the Attractions Bell sweet sides through the years I still hear Morris all this time after. But maybe it is Ralph all the same. And you mention Morris biography. Where do youI find that ?