Tlscapital

But then if you imply that eithe the "pressing" plate or a 'negative' was made of it it should be "mirrored" too. Readable from right to left... As I said to have it raised like 'carved out' instead of 'carved in' as a copy will make it very complicated or impossible. Then why that ?

Whatever pleases. FWIW I prefer to find out what that press is ; a real deal or just some one-off "carver" of some sort. Eliminating false leads. Here this shows the "alignement" of the 'square' blocs in the rounded run out groove forces some odd uneven 'typo' blocs "re-alignement" to fit them in and between the closing in run-out groove. Making this evidently not a criteria to take into account to make this unlabeled S/S press dodgy. Purely based on such irrelevant fact after all. More so in comparison (mud ?). And in regard of the "optic" fooling of the 'machined printed' being raised instead of indented it's a bit over the top really. As this would imply some crazy work to achieve that IMU...

Exactly. How well aligned or indented or raised out of the surface does this one looks when closed-up then ?

Is this a vinyl or a styrene ? Just to know better. FWIW there are few releases to got both vinyl and styrene pressings. To my eyes this doesn't like your typical cheap bootleg pressing. It has a clean groove and even the matrix looks good. Some Okeh catalog numbers got pressed with both 'hand scratched in' run-out matrix and 'machined stamp' ones. And some were pressed and repressed to supply public demand presenting each faint variations. What could have been the purpose of this unlabeled S/S release ? A Larry Williams "situation" maybe ? As Larry produced the 'A' side 'I'm no stranger' but the flip was not !!! Then what ? Who produced that 'I still love you' ? Could that 'B' side have to go through different choices of songs, takes and mixes on their 'own' funds before release ? Such an odd unlabeled S/S press (the cheapest as possible) for "tool" serving as 'test press' could do just that IMHO.

So here as N° 1. the the Guy H. Stafford spin that he named 'Michigan Move' (logically) and N° 2. the 'Moods( titled by dee-jay ?) is the actually Phrenetics Band wrongfully (intentionally or not) titled on the bootleg as 'Michigan Move'. ConfusionS... But I think I got it now. Thanks. 1. The Michigan Move Mafmon pressing 2. Moods Bell Sound acetate Have their correct titles ever been established? Better still,

Sorry but I'm a bit confused here as the bootleg of the Phrenetics Band titled (wrongly then or what ?) titled 'the Michigan Move' as the B-side of 'pyramid' by the Soul Brothers Inc. plays the mp3 posted twice and at the bottom of the OP. That to me sound like a European (UK) thingy. All misleading to me somehow... Clarification please ? Mind you I'm not in the known as to what those acetate were "titited" by the dee-jays/owners back then. While the first tune (not doubled) mp3 proposed in the OP is proposed here as the 'Michigan Move' (Mafmon Pressing) that indeed sounds Detroit. Reminding me some (in it's drive and Oomph) of the Sidra 'the other side' by the "5 Of a Kind". Or "the Holidays" 'makin' up time' on Golden World too. And here we're getting somewhere. Evidently not 'the Holidays' just like not the garage band the '5 lf a Kind' but evidently some 'Funk Bros.' session used as 'flip fillers'. Hence the D'Orleans Music Publishing credit and the Golden World connection and the acetates batch this one came with. Thanks for sharing that instrumental that is new to me. Really I dig it and get the enthusiasm of the punters and dancers clapping and whistles in that 'Rugby' video. Feeding the background connection here with my bits for 'thank you' here with this little 'tell-tale' connection as the Sidra after Golden World 'sell-out' was fueled by 'heritage'.

Uh can't say any better. That's what the awful boot on Golden Eye credits this... Phonetics / Phrenetics.. You know...

The below one (posted twice the mp3) is the "Michigan Move" by the "Phrenetics Band" I believe right ? That sounds like some European (could very well be British) to me. The top mp3 be it the "Moods" I have no idea what it is at all. It sounds rather loud to invite any vocals on top of it. To me it sounds like some instrumentals meant to be that.

Here Chalky. I aimed to post my follow up on that thread actually but wrongfully ended up on this other one about a rip-off Spanian seller of some sort claiming to sell a copy of the Peaches... But here are your fabulous photos and all.

Resurrection time for me here. With acknowledgement of my initial theory being now factually proved wrong about the Paree being last in line of the Admirations release. Allowing thus to finally set the score and establish a more coherent although not yet definitive discography for the group. Leaving the three different Peaches pressings wonder in chronology of events. But here featured with plausible classifications if ever. Opening up again this quest in hope for corrections, complements, comments and critics in order to confirm, establish or review anything. Hardly ever letting go, some 5 years later, I'm back on the case trying to figure out and establish a date of release crossing all front and side factors in regards of all the elements I can in order to refine the year then the month of those who were not given ones yet. At first to me (until today) the Paree single label general visual appearance and the typos used were reminiscent of later sixties Chicago releases. More so than mid sixties ones. Looking very much like the releases of the Soul Majestic's on Al-Tog to begin with. Or even to their first release on Chicago Blues Bag just like the Legends 45 'got to let you go' on Red Ballon for better known examples. Then there's actually loads of other small acts 1968-9 Chicago pressed singles from that pressing plants using the same typos and fonts. That which I seemingly gave too much importance to back then in trying to establish the year of release for this Paree 45. But now I get to understand that this Chicago plant already used newly acquired label letterings blocs with new fonts and typos by mid 1967. A recent flipping through my records seeing my copy of Bobby McLure's 'chained to your heart' on Checker revealed the same fonts and typos on my Chicago press. The previous number on Checker by Maurice and Mac too ! Both dates from June 1967 ! Thinking rightfully back then that the Paree single used the very same fonts and typos as the Soul Majestic's on Al-Tog and was likely released around the same time I was wrongfully putting it last in line of the Admirations discography against all reliable words. Words that the Paree was first now proved to be right. Taking those two elements into account with the fact that 'heaven in your arm' (no good side IMO) is the one song that reveals indeed a very young amateurish sounding young lead singer making it more so plausible. Also worth mentioning that the Paree record also features the involvement as producers and composers of both then current One-Derful group partners Otis Hayes and Jimmy Jones. Enforcing again the One-Derful group link before or after the Paree release if ever. Giving now the Paree release the possibility in all those regards to at least to predate the One-Derful duo of singles. But more importantly in an attempt to look-out for off-side jobs of Otis Hayes and Jimmy Jones outside the One-Derful group, to no avail, I stumbled upon this... ...THE Mar-V-Lus rare mispress of Alvin Cash & the Registers 'different strokes for diff'rent folks' playing the Admirations 'heaven in your arms' instead. A record due to release in July 1967. And this mispress mix-up at the pressing plant is not your regular template one. The mix-up happened at the laquer stage as the template used to press that Alvin Cash & the Registers 45 features the correct matrix '3235' (not the Paree '117 B' one) for their 'diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks'. A very first batch of pressings in error indicating a close release date. Allowing us to set the Paree in June 1967 or about. All this settles that clearly. Now reading about the local public enthusiasm for the act counting only 4 singles allows me to believe that these were released in a short time window frame. Leaving to figure the Peaches story now. Their One-Derful 4849 'wait till I get to know you' from November 1967 was pressed three times. One using thin and small typos like rough 'Time New Roman' printed like on the Peaches releases. This was the very first One-Derful release using that pressing plant typos and fonts. Their following One-Derful 4851 'all for you' was pressed two times and one time with this same 'Times New Roman' fonts typos. Dating from January 1968. This is the last One-Derful record back then ever to be pressed. After that the One-Deful group shutted-down all operations. The first Admirations on One-Derful is an Eddie Silvers production. Working then for One-Derful & Co. just like on the Peaches release that was co-produced by both Eddie Silvers and Keith Gordon. Predicting then the Admirations oncoming to One-Derful records maybe ? The three pressing variations of their Peaches single were all done at the same pressing plant using the same fonts and typos like used for their releases at One-Derful. Indicating a close by in time kinda link preceding or following the releases of their One-Derful singles somehow. Hence why considering the Eddie Silvers involvement allow me to picture him releasing their Peaches single a first time mid or later 1967 before bringing them to One-Derful. That on top could then tell a story for the three Peaches pressings in label and group naming variations. Most likely the Aspirations 45 on Peaches was not done after their One-Derful journey since the 'cast out' of Eddie Silvers for their second One-Deful HIT release swapping him for Pojo as co-producer could actually tell us another not so happy ending story yet to be revealed. This is re-enforced by the following single in 1968 (?) of Walter (Walter Smith sole ex member of the original Admirations) & the Admirations (not the actual ones) on La-Cindy showing a continuous involvement of the 'Teddy Bear' production like for both their One-derfuls ! If the Peaches (first credited then to the Aspirations) allowed them to sign a contract at One-Derful making their first HIT with their rebranded name the Admirations where Eddie Silvers was not involved anymore with this second One-Derful 45 of theirs it doesn't look good ! Was Eddie Silvers 'cast aside' by the band or the label ? Was the repress of the Peaches single under their corrected name an attempt in revenge trying to cash-back on that ? Late 1967 early 1968 seems like troubled times at One-Deful to tell any better who did what there. Anyway most likely after the folding down of the One-Derful group the Admirations could have felt discouraged some as their height was abruptly put to a halt with the sudden disappearance of such a 'corner stone' in local history. The One-Deful group was no more. The end of time... Only Walter Smith as original member of the Admirations kept on to do "his things" in music. And pretty good to say the least. But that's whole other chapter or even another story further down the line. Beginning also by tying the Walter & the Admirations legacy to him. - JUNE 1967- The Admirations 'my admiration for you' on Paree (Otis Hayes & JimmyJones working too for the One-Derful group) - JULY* (?) 1967 - The Aspirations 'you left me' on Peaches (with the PEACHES logo to the RIGHT first then repress with the logo to the LEFT) (Eddie Silvers working for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the One-Derful presses) - SEPTEMBER* 1967 - The Admirations 'wait till I get to know you' on Onder-Full (Eddie Silvers for One-Derful group + same fonts typos as for the Peaches presses) - JANUARY 1968 - The Admirations 'all for you' on One-Derful (NO MORE EDDIE SILVERS !!! + same fonts typos for the Peaches presses) - FEBRUARY (?) 1968 - The Admirations 'you left me' on Peaches (Eddie Silvers revenge record done alone + re-release under their corrected name of ADMIRATIONS (mismatching typo) to cash on it after being cast aside + similar typos for the credits using different fonts in places than for both the Aspirations releases) ________________________ * CORRECTIONS

Landing on this and reading the opening lines I thought for a second 'finally a background on our 'Chuck' but then coming on about the Warner Brothers singer (that which is not our 'seven days too long' Chuck) it all died flat in an instant. With utterly stupid comments -thought forgotten popular in Soul clubs in the UK a decade later- SAY WHAT ?

Yep right OK. As Jimmy Bailey he did tunes or more parts like of tunes where he starts to sing louder like in 'hush' or 'keep on running' both on Columbia. Or 'hold back the dawn' on Mala as J.R. Bailey where you don't get to hear his silky-er smooth singing 'trade mark' at all times. That smooth silky singing of his that he will keep after his fantastic rendition of 'love wears off' on Calla in 1968. At least I believe that.

A slide from the original topic that might bring some 'fresh air' so these are now welcome on here. And if in this case his singing is indeed credited on the record it shows just how he was constantly involved in different musical projects.

Ok so it's a styrene press. So likely a 'test pressing' dubbed from the original Chess/GRT copy. A job done at Frankford/Wayne for 'Quality Control' and further then passed on to some British folk involved in the scheme...

It looks like a styrene press from here. Can you confirm that or what ? I don't have my pink Red Coach second release anymore to compare. Strange to have what looks like an 'acetate' label on a pre-release styrene press if ever that is that. And FWIW those hand writings look British but not American if you ask me.

Yes but that Jim's Boarder Crossing gear is 1972 and so post dating my quest time frame set between 1966 and 1968 (not to broaden the topic that has become somewhat exhausting for some - or is just me ? 😉 ) and then there's also that oddest Chris York song 'tomorrow comes too soon' issued on a Finish Decca 45 in 1973 where J.R.'s voice can also be distinctively heard even if not 'credited' and the list could go on and on and on maybe...

OK that Californian Rock'n'Roll 'Big' Chuck Wood with two releases on Warner Brothers in 1958 and without the Woodchuckers in 1961 (arranged by H.B. Barnum then). Can't find any other leads of that Big Chuck Wood and the Woodchuckers outside that. Could he be it ? Discogs mish-mash connections are just too fancy free or given away but maybe or maybe not...

Yes seen that picture of Jimmy Ralph Bailey (Troy) on Discogs so yes however added the name J.B. Troy at the bottom It's again a 'photo' (of we know who here) but in conjunction to our "speculative" minds to assume it is him regardless of that photo and name 'montage' if ever...

If you wish to assume that that photo is Chuck sure. But I don't agree that we all have to incline as there's actually no evidence either ways at this point. From a singer who has no background at all... Even if on one end there's this Big T. photo. Which has no traceability beside originating from the Big T. archives - and even if it came from Roulette N.Y. offices they could have play the 'fool play' all the same. On the other hand beside "leads" we have words from hearsay, voice matchability and a constellation of people, time and place that fits the whole idea of it with other such records to set the 'pattern'... To me it's a case of a glass half empty or half full at this stage. The quest was originally on Lee Roye's case but this one is indeed part of the thing and considering the 'pattern' it makes sense to question it. If it was not for the Big T. release (although the record had some success in the USA too) this promotional picture wouldn't be here. And still it came without any background presentation of who is Chuck... If an artist got to get such an enthusiastic public reaction the word of who's he/she would quickly find it's way to the record company representative eager to present the artist forth coming release in full no ? We're not talking a small imported independent release impossible to locate. It's a major's release that found its way on a close to the street London label that could have got all they asked for from Roulette USA... But no apparently. Which is odd somehow I find. Even more so after they even released the second Chuck's 45. Aiming to please a community of soul devotees in hunger to know their artists and were given nothing. But a photo... And if proven wrong that this photo is that guy singing 'seven days too long' even if Chuck Wood is only his "stage" name is I swear that I will only be happy to finally know the truth and bow to that...

That picture is evidently not J.R. Bailey. And the fact that this 'original' photo was used (likely sourced from some Big T. archives) for the book 'The In Crowd' participate into the 'officialisation' once more to that. But you're right they're not one and the same. Here left a young J.R. Bailey while part member of the Cadillacs and the Big T. promo picture Chuck Wood guy on the right if ever. Two those fellas are just no match at all and one only is J.R. ! Steve G. valid point stands even if that photo came from the N.Y. Roulette offices sent to the UK for Big T. promotional use yet it doesn't necessary means IT IS the photo of THE actual singer. Other similar stories from major companies mishaps are about. Kev Robert's tale reporting from another horse's mouth is maybe only second hand word but it does participate into that constellation corroboration of J.R. voice lending conspiracy of ours...

Yeah been on Ken's site before. Didn't know J.R.'s version of 'sweet music, soft lights and you' either. Nice one 😉

Excerpt taken from Blues & Soul from September 1975 with in between brackets my little additions. Could those six acts be them (our six shared Names being J.R., Vernon or even a real Chuck) after his passage as Jimmy Bailey at Columbia and before his J.R. Bailey (re- if ever) incarnation in 1968 at Mala with Rudy Clark (so not in 1965) ? ... All those things, by the way, were cut under my real name, Jimmy Bailey (at Columbia). "Feeling that perhaps maybe he should go under writing and producing (and singing at times maybe ???). J.R. worked on about six acts "and although we placed product with companies, we never really had any hits so we dissolved the whole thing." ...

OK so I've just asked friends 'Soul Shrews' & spouse (him co re-starter of this 'who's who' wonder for Lee Roye on Decca while listening to his LP of Jr. Baley on MAM) to dig into their recently acquired complete Blues & Soul collection (from Amsterdam passed pirate radio dee-jay fame 'Midnight Johnny' RIP) solidified by craft into hard cover classified chronologically by year of issue to dig and look into those for the Jr. Bailey interview if ever... As for 'strange' I would say good 'guess who' shadow job at it really. Intended as a mystery and remaining as one after all this time it is rather well done I'd say. Much better than what history books are too often made off in comparison...

OK that would be interesting to see how they got that picture for the book 'The In Crowd' and if ever they can attest the link to that Chuck Wood on Roulette or not. Can't say I know these guys but will look into it Another classic example is the confusion between Jimmy Soul (not Clark) the North Carolina 'HIT' guy with 'twisting' Matilda' with "our" Detroit Jimm(e)y 'Soul' Clark leading to wrongful images use too often...

Reaching out if ever someone could later even come 'out of the bush' and bring along what could seem to him/her as a rather insignificant or trivial like detail that but that can prove crucial on this end allowing us in the best case to clear-up the picture and significantly establish or re-inforce such or such lead. Establishing how the name Chuck Wood was associated with that full size photo with it's source for that picture later used (head-line cut) on that 'seven days is too long' Big-T advert at one time in the UK now the avatar of the Roulette Chuck Wood on Datcogs is crucial before being critical further down the line. Similarity in voice is only what it is but without better solid proof it's something to take into account in the meantime and by adding these to all other factual leads in order to enforce or deforce such or such a lead until a solid proof is brought along is all we can rely on. Two examples I love of 'brain freeze' fatal moments ;