Roburt

No one mentioned the Platters 60's tracks (for Musicor) yet ? I know lots of their 60's LP cuts used pre-recorded Detroit backing tracks but other tracks ("With This Ring", "Washed Ashore", etc. ) are very Motown influenced without being too Motown connected.

The 50's Tony Williams led group were quite influential if only because they enjoyed such massive international hits. Lots of 60's soul singers inspired to sing by listening to Tony Williams leads for the group. He went solo in the late 50's but never made it as a big solo act / recording artist. He stayed with that 50's sound and so his influence soon faded. He was replaced as lead singer by Cleveland's Sonny Turner. Sonny is 'the sound of the group' for me. It was tracks he was lead on that are my faves (the Musicor stuff). But in this era, the group followed trends (making Motown sounding cuts) rather than leading the way (sound wise). Sonny went solo (led his own group) around 1970 and the guys that followed him (on lead) became more & more anonymous. PLUS, the group's manager (Buck Ram) owned the name, so there were soon loads of versions of the Platters playing live gigs across the US / world. Sonny was prosecuted by Buck Ram & so couldn't perform under the Platters name, so he had to use a different name (Sounds Limited) for his group or go out as 'Sonny Turner of the Platters & his group'. It was Sonny (& his guys) that were big on the Beach Scene in the 70's / 80's and who were the big group on the Vegas casino live performance circuit BUT he was never allowed to bill his group as the Platters. Sonny performed all the big Musicor cuts the Platters made @ the live show Lou Ragland & I put on in Vegas in 1998 (Vegas US Soul Trip). In the 60's, the Platters were so busy doing live dates all over the US that many times it was just Sonny who jetted back to New York to cut the group's recordings (the other voices on their records being NY studio based guys). Many of their 'backing tracks' having been pre-cut in Detroit & then the master tapes sent off to NY to be finished (Vocals added). When I saw Sonny perform these songs ("With This Ring", "Washed Ashore", "Devri", etc) he would come on stage (after being introduced as just Sonny Turner & his group) with a big board containing the group's Musicor 45's & LP covers to ensure the audience knew they would be getting a 'Platters show'. Of course his outfit would also perform the group's 50's hits on their shows (they also re-recorded the tracks for Musicor LP's).

"This Old Heart Of Mine" does nothing for you ?!?!? It has to be the atypical 60's Motown dancer and an all-time classic for me.

Loads of Motown tracks issued on 45 in UK, Europe, Sth America, etc that never made it out on 45 in the US. Lots of these were in the 70's when foreign licensees went their own way rather than following the US labels lead as to what would make the best 45 cuts. Seem to recall a big Miracles dance track escaping on 45 in Brazil that was LP only in the US. Also UK / German 45 B sides in the 70's that never made it onto 45 in the US. Away from my collection at present, so can't quote actual examples (song titles) but no doubt if you check 'Obscure -- unusual foreign releases' thread some will be detailed / shown there. Maybe one of the Motown related internet sites has compiled a list of the sort you want.

Yep, I was getting Lola (who I remember from pictures of her & the info that she married one of the Tavares brothers) mixed up with Fluffy. I think you're right that Fluffy must have been Lola's brother even though Fluffy would normally (to me anyway) be a females (or dogs) name. I also know she had at least one 45 out in Italy in 67 (sung in Italian) but don't know if "Coalmine" was included on this release. So are her 1975 RCA cuts (that escaped) any good ?

Just checked & it was Lola (not Fluffy) that married one of the Tavares boys in 1970. Lola was a dancer / singer who played Broadway shows, appeared in 60's films & was featured on the Bill Cosby TV Show (so no doubt she knew Bill very well & maybe even his little old man ?!?). Lola was a star in Vegas for some years but went down with an illness in 1972 (think this stopped her dancing for a while). Fluffy & Lola were from Philly originally. Lola cut for Reprise in the 60's ..... was her early 67 Reprise 45 a Virtue Production ??? ..... ..... & did her Italian language version of "Working in a Coalmine" ever actually escape on 45 in Italy ? If so, is it any good ? ..... By 1975 Cuba Gooding (of Main Ingredient) was recording Lola on some new tunes but I don't know if these ever escaped from the tape vaults.

Wasn't Fluffy (a looker by all accounts & ex-showgirl I believe) married to one of the Tavares brothers in the 70's ? Maybe that was her sister Lola .....

Seems that it was a big play back in the day ........

Back to the group / record in question (Shangi-las -- Give Him a Great Big Kiss) ............ It COULD be considered NORTHERN but not NS (IMHO). Many pop songs played on the scene down the years (most being garbage IMO) but they were played and therefore have to figure in the history of NS. Now, I'll go on Facebook & the like and state that I recall Bill Oddie's NS biggie being played on the scene in the 70's and a whole new heated debate can kick off.

Seems that the Sonny Daye on Ru-Jac (Baltimore) had no connection at all with Eddie Daye (of 4 Bars fame). Full story on the 4 Bars (from an interview Eddie himself gave before his death) is here ....... https://www.uncamarvy.com/4Bars/4bars.html So Eddie & the 4 Bars were the backing singers on the Donbut 45 by Vic Marcell (uncredited on the record label though) .....

I have a full album of photos I took at the Ric Tic Review show staged @ the Ritz in Manc. The album is back in the UK though and is old pre-digital print format (& my scanner gave up the ghost a while ago). Seem to recall Rob Wigley (?) giving me a good shot of Edwin Starr on stage @ Hinckley that he had taken at the show, so he may have other gud uns. I also have 100's of artist photos from every Cleggy Weekender from the 1st thru to 2014 (last year's was the 1st I ever missed). Also photos from uda weekenders and live shows in London (100 Club & other venues). Some photos of soul singers I've met up with in UK & US.

A better version of an ad for the same show @ the Howard .......

At the time the group were 'cold as ice' back in the US, after having been a big live draw 4 to 6 years earlier. So they couldn't get many decent US bookings (you needed a hot new release to get high paying live gigs back across the pond). So they saw their UK visit as a way of regenerating their careers. The TOTP appearance was the biggest gig of their time in the UK and as I understand it they learnt a full stage performance (choreography) but this particular guy couldn't remember the moves and was cocking up their wanted 'smooth professional display'. So he was pulled from the stage when the camera was off the group. I believe they finished their performing days down on the US beach music circuit where their old 60's cuts were always popular. Better days (1964) for the group back in their homeland. Back then they were regular performers at the top chitlin circuit theatres such as the Howard Theatre in DC .......

(Nearly) all you need to know about Debbie is detailed here .................. https://www.selrec.com/debbietaylorstory.htm Her Arista stuff was issued on 7" in South America (Brazil, etc.) and here it was common for 7" records to play @ 33rpm. Coz of this, longer versions (sometimes the full LP version) were included on local 7" releases. I have no idea if any of her Today outings escaped in countries such as Brazil and Argentina but if they did it's highly likely that they will feature longer versions than those that escaped on the US 45. Alternatively, many Sth American 7" releases would feature 4 cuts (i.e same as a UK EP release). Coz of this lots of tracks that were LP only in the US / UK escaped in the likes of Brazil / Argentina on 7". Debbie's Brazil 7" release may well be featured on the old 'obscure - unusual foreign release' thread.

The O'Jays tracks released on the label were cut for Cleveland based Saru Records in the period between the group's time with Neptune and Philly Int Records. Eddie Spencer was based out of Toronto and also fronted pop bands (see attached pic in which Eddie is shown top left) as well as performing / recording as a solo artist ........

Robb, the Baltimore / DC Sonny Daye who cut for Ru-Jac must make it at least 3 different soul Sonny Daye's. There were also singers outside of the US that used the name Sonny Day (but I don't think they cut soul records). I'm old too and often have very forgetful moments (hence my inability to recall Frankie Vance earlier on).

So the DC 4 Bars lead used both the name Sonny Daye and Eddie Daye ? Were either his 'real name' or were they just his stage names ?

So is the Sonny Daye who was the lead singer of the 4 Bars the same guy who cut for Baltimore's Ru-Jac Records (Little Sonny Daye with Shyndel's Band – I'm Through With You / A Woman Like You - 1963) or was there a 4th soul singer who used the stage / recording name of Sonny Daye.

My point still stands as I started my post with the statement ..... not exactly the same names !!

RE: Robb's comment on Mary Wells ...... as were most of her non-Beatles 20th Century Fox songs. Did she cut those Beatles songs for 20th Century coz she had become such close friends with the members of the UK group when she was the main support artist on the Beatles big UK theatre tour back in 1963 ??

Some info here on the 70's Imperials .............. https://www.algomes.com/imperials/haroldbio.html Later on (as stated in the above), Little Anthony decided he wanted to return to performing as lead with the Imperials, so he bought the name back from Bobby Wade. After that Bobby named his group the Emperors as they had a long term engagement @ the Emperor Lounge @ Caesar's Palace in Vegas. See attached pics of 1976 version of the Imperials PLUS of Bobby Wade's Emperors .......

Not taken @ Hinckley but members of the Ric Tic Review photographed backstage @ the Ritz (Lou Ragland & J J Barnes in the piccie) .....

This Imperials were Little Anthony's old group after he went into acting & started a solo singing career. The lead singer was ex-Way Out guy Bobby Wade. They didn't have any US hits but made a good living for many years playing the Vegas casino lounges. When I took a whole bunch of UK soulies on the Vegas Soul Trip in 1998, the group were playing a local casino lounge room. I contacted Bobby & told him we were coming to the show. He 'played up' to our crowd, talking about his UK popularity & the Imperial's UK hit on Power Exchange. He then pitched our crowd against the Americans in the audience on soul knowledge / crowd reaction to his questions / the group's show. A very enjoyable night all around (have photos of the show somewhere at home in the UK). However I have this photo on my US based computer from the same trip ...... a few of us Brits in Freddie Empire's Vegas recording studio (Freddie sat front right in the pic) ....

Not exactly the same names ........... BUT ....... There was 60's Baltimore based outfit The Shalimars & the 70's hit makers (for SOLAR) Shalimar .....

RE: my own post ..... There's the Cleveland group Sly, Slick & Wicked PLUS the LA outfit of the same name fronted by Sonny Daye .............. Both group's taking their name from the Lost Generation's hit 45 track !!