Chalky

at the behest of Little Stevie here's a topic for and about promoters and their promotions. Please refrain from the usual have a go at the usual suspects. This is meant to be a serious look at gettinng promoters heads together for the good of the scene. Think it is agreed that it can't carry on the way it is with an ever decreasing number of paying customers and few if any youngsters to take their places. There's too much clashing, too many nights (too many close together), promoters promoting for the sake of running a venue and maybe getting the chance to DJ? So lets get things out in the open, don't be shy have your say, punters too, but like I said keep it sensible

You say there shouldn't be bitch fighting and mud slinging on a public forum and you then go and have a go at an all-nighter in Stoke. I don't see any other all-nighters that night either in the events guide for that night??? Is it because they are not scene regulars and seem fair game? I bet the night is packed whatever happens! Why not have a go at say Shaun Gibbons who after years in the wilderness marches back onto the scene and clashes at least twice this year with a venue you are involved with, no more than an hour away from each other. Or Burnley which stopped for various reasons including lack of support and commitment yet Barrie brings it back, clashes with a long established venue little more than an hour away and so I hear gets 50 punters in, there are probably no other Friday all nighters so why clash? The next one is now scheduled on an already busy Bank Holiday weekend. Common sense would say have it a week earlier or something just to spread things about. There are plenty of other instances I could mention. If it can't be discussed on a forum which is about everything to do with the scene then where should it be discussed? The promoters don't talk to each other, some do, but most don't so it would never get mentioned otherwise. Who are the DJ's clinging to spots, is that their fault, I don't think so, I would look more towards the promoter for allowing it. There is plenty of scope for all-nighters to suit everyone, but what is needed is some common sense and some respect for fellow promoters and the paying public. Maybe promoters should look at going every other month but something needs to be done or the scene will dwindle and wither away long before its time due to the short sightedness of promoters.

not suggesting banning orders or anything like, just a bit of common sense.

Hi Karen, not trying to sway anyone one way or the other or try and say where they should go, its just a matter of promoters putting a venue on for the sake of it in an already over crowded calendar, often the same night and an hour or so away, sometimes less. Maybe if a bit of unity shown and a bit of respect of already established venues then the all-nighter scene could well be a lot healthier and the need to entice some back might not be needed so much. What is the point in splitting an already dwindling crowd? yes it's all subjective and we all have different tastes and requirements but two poorly attended venues not far from each other are not doing the scene any good.

it looked fantastic from some of the play lists I've seen. Anyway Brian Philips will be a better person to answer that question...I'm far too young of course

but there was a soul scene before a Northern Soul scene.

fookin hell it's not whether you would have been here, it is whether there would have been a scene, and there would have been a scene in some form or other regardless whether you had been here or not! Anyway, it's all because of Motown that we are lumbered with you I still think there would have been some sort of Soul scene without Motown. But I guess we will never know how popular it would have been.

nobody is denying that Motown helped the scene along it's merry way, no one is disputing the fact that Motown has had an influence on us all but it would appear you don't understand the question, and you're the one who is a teacher and a graduate. Which was would there have been a scene without Motown?

What's the point trying to entice anyone to go to an all-nighter when you have certain promoters doing their level best to ruin it just so they can run a night. What's the point in having a very comprehensive events calendar and all-nighter planner on here when a few take no notice of what is already happening?

but is that the question of this topic? Anyway Motown wasn't the biggest influence, whether that music was influenced by Motown is a different matter. At the end of the day it was a bit of everything.

no need to apologise and you ain't winding me up. As I said your are making this into two different arguments, what got you into the scene and would there be a scene without Motown. Now irrespective what got me into this scene I still maintain in some form or other there would be a soul music scene without Motown.

Did they all copy Motown, don;'t think so, Stax/Volt and many of the Southern labels had there own sound. You are almost saying there would be no Soul Music if Motown didn't come into being, that is absolute rubbish.

it was probably the northern the older kids were playing at school and the youth club where I grew up. When I left school I borrowed Pete Stones collection, not much Motown in it from what I can remember. besides what you are saying is a totally different argument and we are talking about would there be a scene without Motown, not what got us into the scene.

but this scene is by and large about the stuff that didn't sell, the non commercial stuff and much of Motown was commercial and plenty of it pop. And records were made for the black market and not aimed at the white pop market so therefore it had a limited audience.

many didn't simply copy Motown, many used their own techniques and methods and many did a better job of making black dance music than Motown which was aimed at the masses and not necessarily the black music scene. And after all the Soul scene (before NS was coined) was primarily rare obscure black dance music not mass produced commercial dance music was it not?

Do you consider Dancing in the Street to be Northern Soul? I wouldn't want to hear it at a soul night and certainly not an all-nighter.

wouldn't it be a bit boring listening to the same style all night? and besides it isn't really whwt the topic is about is it? Anyway the Wingate stable of labels maybe? Stax/Volt? Chess? ABC group, RCA, Okeh?

it would be far easier though to do an all-nighter without any Motown, in fact several all-nighters. Much of the Motown label isn't Northern Soul or even Soul, it was aimed solely at the mass white markets, much of the more soulful stuff was left in the can. Black dance music, R&B, group soul, doo wop existed before Motown so it is only natural to say it would have progressed without the influence of Motown as new production techniques and technology progressed. Motown also put many labels out of business or swallowed them up and stifled competition and many of those labels made better music, labels where the musicians were left to really show off their talent. As Steve says look at the Wheel topic somewhere on the site, Brian Philips posted loads of Wheel tunes that are not Motown and from what I've read Motown didn't have the influence in the early days of the scene that it had in later years.

Flynny definately played it, it is listed in his list of Dome spins on his website, Kenny as well. Don't remember Carl spinning this

Pretty sure there is a Disco topic in refosoul and a good discussion from a while back in all about the soul, can someone find them?

he was, most of his posts including this simply stirring the sh*t!!

Can't stand either of them. Said in another topic think Kiki Dee is one of those had to be there records...or a marmite disc, either love it or hate it. Derek Martin did a version too.

mid August apparently.

I dunno, I first heard it via Flynny or Kenny I think.

Just looked at the list of records Dave played at the Dome and yep Joey DeLorenzo is there so it is all his fault I thought he was one of the culprits to play this.