pow wow mik

i'd think about it, what's it go for?

anyone got a sound file of Ray Medina? heard it several times over the years but never with the possibility of buying it cheers

you're not legally or morally obligated to. A record, even if made as a demo or acetate, is a product that once released onto a market is under the ownership of the buyer. Only reproduction for profit or public use of the music on it is illegal. These sellers are infringing copyright and making a profit from smething that they do not own.

I've bid on stuff early before to try and stop people contacting the seller and convincing them no one wants it and their 'offer' is a great opportunity for the seller. But only then really.

Johnny Mccall - you cant get away (satelite) Sammy ambrose - welcome to dreamsville (musicor) around book price paid cash immiediately cheers recordmik@btinternet.com

I appreciate that, cheers. And yes, you wouldn't use '16 tons' as a prime example of the music played in the r&b room, just as, say, you wouldn't use Eddie Bishop's 'call me' as a prime example of music played in a Northern room, but no one is doing. But to argue that it is massively removed from rhythm & blues music is to show some ignorance of American music in that period. Sure, it's pretty far removed from Ellipsis, which is why there's a separate room for r&B, but then so is Charles Sheffield, which, quite bizarrely does get played in the same room as Ellipsis - the 'northern room'. Explain that one to me. And you dont get people who like R&B complaining that the pop that often is catagorised as 'soul' is so far removed from the blues influence that it, in fact, doesn't really have much 'soul' at all. Which would be as abstract an argument as the one that '16 tons' has no place in an R&B room. And regarding the novelty aspect, I do see your point, but if i may say so - as a soul night regular but not a pure 'northern soul' fan, I think one thing I notice about soul nights is how po-faced they often are. Sure, soul is serious music and good music but is there no room for a bit of fun, a bit of humour? Is that incompatible with quality music or great dance music? I myself DJ on the mod scene. And while i'm very happy playing very serious, very authentic soul and R&B, I could not imagine a night without a bit of novelty, something that brings a smile to peoples faces. It doesn't polute the musical palate or dumb the night down, it is just FUN. On NYE I was playing a quite meloncholy R&B song by Melvin Davis called 'Wedding Bells' which people loved. In the same set I also played Jackie Wilson's versin of 'Joshua fought the battle of Jericho' (!), Billy Hamlin's somewhat daft 'If you aint got no bread...' and a ridiculous instrumental by the 4 Instants called 'boggatini' which you'd have to hear to believe! All of which went down brilliant and a great time was had. My point is not that you should care what I play at mod clubs, or that I have got anything 'right'. Simply that, 'fun' tracks can still be good and playing the odd track that is 'fun' but still good, even if it is a pop hit, or a country artist, does not and should not stop one loving and seriously appreciating proper deep and good quality r&b and soul music, but can create a good atmosphere at a night. How 'serious' should we be? Is it not enough that Andy always attends Middleton and events all over the country and loves great soul and r&b music? You also demand that he sticks to some abstract musical rules when DJing too? It is just fun. And some people do still go out to have fun, not for an earnest stroll around the 'authentic soul' museum.

what, you complaining you dont hear enough 'genuine 70s soul'?! I think there's a lot of places to hear genuine 70s soul. Funnily enough, at the same night at Middleton - i sat for quite a while listening to a lot of great and unusual 'genuine 70s soul' up in the 'Carl Willingham' room from Sam and Mick H, so for 'genuine 70s soul' lovers, i think more than enough was on offer, although strangely there didn't seem to that much demand for it. And funnily enough, all this great 'genuine soul' was in a room named after Mr Willingham, who I dont know personally but have heard play a few times and am guessing is someone known for his love and dedication to 'genuine soul' yet also someone was also open minded and adventurous enough in his tastes to play, on occasion, B K Anderson's 'Minimum Wage' which is pretty much a slight variation on '16 tons'. So was the music not 'safe' in his hands? cos it seemed to be. shit! maybe he is sophisticated enough to appreciate 'genuine 70s soul' AND 50s pop/folk/blues and can be trusted in his knowledge and love of music to know what is appropriate to play where. I mean, i dont know him but i'm speculating here. Can I also make the point that this was one track in a about 10 hours of music and was not even played in a Northern Soul club but in an r&b room. R&B fans, probably more familiar with musical culture of the 50s, are aware that there's a lot of blurred boundries between the many styles influenced by the American folk blues tradition in that era and can therefore judge what music they want to listen to for themselves, just as 'modern' soul fans are completely free to include a track consisting of programmed drum beat and a sampled vocal in their playlists, and 'northern soul' fans are completely free to include tracks of pure pop song structure in theirs. The great thing about music is that it either works or it doesn't. Only my opinion, but I think it's more important to keep that in mind than worry about catagories and genre. especially catagories and genres that no one is forcing YOU to listen to.

didn't want to get involved in this but have got to take you up something there: 'whatever the dancefloor may think' Middleton is a dedicated soul & r&b night. everyone there I assume you would trust to be a fan of music, particularly soul & r&b music sure, but more importantly music in general. I think considering that, 'whatever a dancefloor may think' is a major consideration when deciding a tune's merits. When deciding whether a tune is 'right' to play. Dancefloors for decades have decided that plenty of tracks that may not fit into someone's abstract definition of what is soul or r&b have been worthy of listening to and dancing to. and thank god, because a true music lover will know that 'soul' is surely more than a black person singing. And thank god too, that artists who are unarguably blessed with a lot of soul have not been as narrow minded in their musical imagination as some of those who have been lucky enough to inherit their work. Artists like oscar brown Jr for example, who saw no problem with the track '16 tons' when he recorded his great version of it. Which, incidentaly, sounds pretty much like rhythm & blues to me. The difference between 16 tons and 'hole in the ground' is that '16 tons' has a strong contemporary dance tempo rhythm, similar to the rhythms popular on r&b records of the time. The accompaniment on '16 tons' is not massively different to that of many 'authentic' rhythm & blues records, like, say 'try love' by Cookie Jackson. So if someone is trying to argue that the vocals and subject matter of '16 tons' put it in a completely different musical realm to the Cookie jackson then i'm sorry but the argument doesn't hold up. Probably a better example would be Frank Minion's 'how much land', which shares a similar sentiment to '16 tons'. Frank Minion was, i believe, black, and his record was not a hit so does that make it a certified r&b record and a million miles away from the T E Ford? Of course not. Musical genres in that exciting time were not as clear cut as people seem to want them to be. There is no neat start or end to soul or rhythm & blues and, whether you like this particular track or not, I dont think anyone is more qualified to decide what is 'right' than a dancefloor full of people. and even they are not qualified to make any judgement except whether they like it or not. I'm pretty open minded yet accept hearing lots of tracks I dont like when i'm out. But if i was to make my opinions so vocal, I'd maybe ask not whether something is the correct genre to play but whether something is good enough to play. Because i hear a lot of 100% pure 'soul' music when i'm out and about that is complete shit. '16 tons' at least, is not.

double bugger, anyone else got one?

Lee Brackett - save a foolish man / ruby (Excello) instant payment for this at around book price thanks recordmik@btinternet.com

sure this came out on a Prestige 45

If it's 'take care of business' that you're after, i have it on a nice French late 60s Nina simone compilation on Philips. lovely laminated gatefold sleeve just bits of wear, vinyl's mint. It is a 'best of' but from then and a quality LP. Tenner if anyone needs a copy.

hi mate, you have it so good in europe! Seen people run terrified from dancefloors to this! It's no Frank wilson that's for sure. The song is an old american standard with some nice but far different soul versions. Ted Taylor's slow version is lovely

my definition of a soul snob would be someone who thinks they are an authority on what is 'soul' and what isn't. Like they have the exact parameters worked out by some scientific process. Often known to say things like 'that's not soul, that's disco, that's not soul that's r&b, that's not soul that's pop' etc. The kind of people who would dislike a record for being by a white singer while happily listening to 'official 100% black artist' tunes all night, despite many of them having no discernable tune The oldies crowd i would say are the opposite, they'd climb over a pile of great soulful records because they dont sound like Norhern to get to a copy of some nasty 70s instrumental by Biddu or someone

a huge amount of these turned up about 5 years ago, mostly went to funk collectors i think but were doing the rounds at £20. Try asking on the funk board if you still stuck. great version by the way, but i always found it a little intense for the dancefloor

ox

almost like buying a Lenny Johnson record blind just because someone asked for it on here! Which you did by the way.

boll

certainly sounds like them, or some Don Drummond / Roland Alphonso variation! dont know name of the track though. I'll have one more go

i give up, it goes 'doo doo doo, da da da da, dur duuuurr'. anyone know it?

can't seem to upload it on refosoul, what am i doing wrong? sorry bout his

turds

for fucks sake