ImberBoy

Sad

I do agree that it is a very complex and intricate subject but I do believe that the historians often place things in neat boxes and the less accepted and un sexier things are often left out. I think black America is given far too much of the lion's share of credit for rythmatic dance, I read all about slaves hollering to each other and how this changed into the blues, I hear how church music influenced by slave chants became gospel. The African drum was not the first beat 9well it was if you go back and I mean wayyyyyyyy back) there was another drum that never gets a mention and a drum that was present at the start of the black journey and that was the military drum. The navy used toe tappers and drum based music to encourage the sailors to dance on board ship and many military marches are toe tapping well, who can keep still to the Grenadier? Now I am not reinventing the origins of Motown nor am I claiming that soul started in Yorkshire but the British influence never gets a mention. Ken thanks for sending me that link, fascinating stuff mate a good read. The History Of: Blues Music Like most articles it starts at the convenient establishing music well ready for the onslaught of recording and public outings but we are still left with a gap.

Time?

For Pete............. At what point did a drum and a scrappy tribal beat become an accepted and loved melodic sound, how when and why?

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Yup couldn't agree more

Spot on Ken not many would argue that. I still wonder at the juncture when the music morphed from the clumsy tribal polyrhythm to the sound we know and love now because the sound of Africa aint too much like American black music, the vocalization and the melody seems to have come from somewhere and I can't see/hear it in any European base? The slaves would have heard choir music, don't forget this would have been well before the gospel rhythm and the only other music would have been sea shanties and English folk music that in its self sounds far away from melodic rythmatic pieces? The only other music would have been the classics that would have no doubt been heard. Old African Slave Song I believe would have been sang whilst toiling in the fields and like then as Christianity and the black church formed we would have had a meld of cultures. These may have been replicated in the fields and for the amusement of the slaves, Tin Pan Alley and brass music was a very English thing and the fusion of brass and blues sang out of desperation given to strings of banjos and piano sees jazz and RnB. European influences are possibly more important than given credit for? Mr Gordy and the like take credit for cleaning up a sound and packaging it for whitey but I still can't hear the folk music or sound and taste of the Europe of the slave trade? I'm trawling through period music now on you tube trying to find the connective tissue and the change from a rudimentary drum to a melody, 2010 and still searching for the young soul rebel.

Malc you have passed the first test. lol

""Youth" today don't enjoy the same opportunities we had in terms of new music." Nonsense The "Youth of today" have ALLWAYS been strangled by the labels and the music machine! The very fact that we are on this forum is a testament of breaking away from the commercial and spoon fed and this was the seventies and early eighties. Today the kids are exactly in the SAME position and they need to decide if they want to look for music or just receive music, there is as much quality and diversity for them as there has ever been, no, I'd go further than that and say there is more as they have all of ours to choose from as well but the rub is choice, they must make it!

The sound of black America? The Motown Sound (the Motownesque sound) where did it come from? Well the easy answer is Motown but the influx of black Americans was an economic migration from the Deep South to the big city lured by money from factory work, parallels to the north of England is of note here but for another discussion. The sound of Black America and they sound we all love is attributed to a fusion of slave songs, gospel and a fresh up beat mix founded, arguably, in Detroit. Theres not many who don't know this and very few who would argue it but strip back the sound we love back to the Deep south and back to its accepted origins of black slaves bringing polyrhythm music to the shores of America. Now it is accepted that a fusion of European waltzes and influences from polka, waltzes and other European music melted together to give what we now know and accept as the sound of black America. I think we have a gap and a leap of faith here because the two musical influences are far from an easy mix, if we look at the sound of Africa and the cultural music of indigenous peoples they do sound a far cry from Motown, of course they sound different I hear you gasp, but it is a difference that fall far from most palettes, when was the last time you bought a African Music LP? I believe we have lost an important "missing link" of black American music; the loss in my opinion would have been caused by the lack of technology and the reluctance to write a record of this music. I intend to build a time machine this weekend and go back and bring back what I believe will be some sound recordings that will blow us all away!

Nowt wrong in the "rare soul crowd let their hair down and embrace 'the played to death Wigan classics'." I love Stoke, missed the last 2 due to family and work commitments. Stoke is a time machine for me and a total unique experience that gives me tingles just thinking about it, I love walking in and seeing loads of friends and the part atmosphere is infectious. I don't want to do this every week or month but I am fookin glad it's there so I can enjoy the classics in a brilliant environment. I think the crowd at The IOW is dancing to the beat, they care little for the musical content as long as they can shake a tail feather, nowt wrong with that and some say "It's only a night out" I would like to believe that the Northernsoul scene is a bit different; we are far quicker to get into bed with a track, embrace it, study it and allow it to become part of our DNA. Sounds a little over the top/ I can't see many Hipshakers rushing over to the DJ booth to ID a new track in anticipation of tracking the little fooker down and cherishing it, mothering it and adopting it like a lost child adding it to a record collection? To us (The Northernsoulies), music is far from disposable, we are not snobs but we care about the music, as horrible as it sounds, the scene down south, the European scene and the students and young crowd do not have the same connection to our music as us, some do I grant you but our cultural origins and our investment in time and passion is well different. I think this is why we end up lampooning The Snake

I think there are a few parallels when comparing the two scenes but there are also some major differences. Both scenes enjoy being a "little" offbeat, I suppose they used to be underground but this is arguable now as the majority of people are returning after many years of absence. Returning back to anything brings with it a retrospective, nostalgic look and a real resistance to embrace any changes that have happened in their absence, we see this manifest itself here on Soul Source all the time when people refuse anything new. The soul scene does have its regular allnighter goers and its fair slice of progressive ears ready and eager to listen to unheard of records or even dare I say Modern? This is only a small minority now days as our scene is flooded with most who crave for a Wigan Casino time machine, nowt wrong with that but it does not lend its self to much in the way of new sounds. The scooter scene is more of a party scene where the scooter is pivotal and the music being more of an accompaniment rather than the main dish, there will be the odd unknown Northernsoul record played but this will only be done in the safe assurance that the Northernsoul scene has filtered the tune firs. There is no record broken on the scooter scene first then crossing over to the Northernsoul Scene, you may get the rare dusted off track but nothing originating from the scooterist. Yup the scooter scene has championed some tracks and even played their part in saving or should I say propping up the scene but to suggest that there is ever going to be fresh vibrant sounds coming from scootering is a na¯ve or a bit of a uniformed fib. I have been doing both scenes without a break since 1978., not an expert but I like to think I'm experienced in both scenes even though I ride a gay plastic fantastic most of the time!

This is what we did at the weekend, https://www.tafsc.com/RTTW.htm

Not too sure if there are any differences?

Don't fookin start with all that camembert versus brie shite! I remember the fights that caused at the last Soul Source picnic, we had the Modern fans throwing Soft-ripened and blue-veined Camembert wedges at the sixties crew who retaliated using Edam and Gouda filled volovants , the RnB Catz going mental chicken oriental at the Philadelphia tubs. Let's never go down that milk based food product road again.

Nowt wrong with my shorts Kev!

Mega

A bit of passion and effort?

That's the one!!!!! Been driving my bonkers since 0900hrs !!!!!

Help ID this track from lyrics "Stop Me" Not Northern, sorry, but I can't remember who it's by? It's a seventies sound, could be called "Stop Me"? "Stop me if you've heard it all before girl stop me all you have to do is say it's your life and still unsure girl, just stop me.... They'll be no more to say. ????????? It sound like the Drifters or The Real Thing?????

Bin hearing loads of rumors of a load of stuff from South Wales being dripped in, I don't think this is the end of it?

Good Angel you will be hung for this!

Stickers and Badges are very cheap to have reproduced now days and we often see stall holders at weekenders selling the like. I'd kill for an original Lambrini Badge

I would imagine very rare indeed? Most things like paper that have no value after an event are discarded and not kept as souvenirs due to the fact that there where "better" souvenirs available such as badges? Keep hold of this and I should imagine some one would pay you for it?

SoulBoy I think its time for a cynical categorization of SoulBoy posters? I think it's fair to say that we initially had a flurry of posts from some that had a vested interest in the film? This was then followed by an exited bout of posts from those who where going to be either included or asked for advise? What followed was a painful wait until us lesser mortals had the chance to see the movie and we still have many finding it hard to locate a cinema showing the film so we now do still have two camps, those who have seen the movie and those that have not. Those who have not seen the movie fall into categories of those who don't comment choosing to wait and those who air their concerns. For those that have seen the movie I think we have three camps, those who are blown away and loved the film giving marks out of ten such as high sevens, the score you would normal see for epics such as The Godfather and The Deer Hunter. We then have those who are bitterly disappointed at a wasted opportunity and leave the cinema deflated and a little underwhelmed. The final third are the staunch denialists who I think confuse the topic with the content and mindlessly refuse to see any perceived attack on their youth. If I'm going to be even more cynical I think that the final third fall into two categories, those who where actually there and those who sort of pretend they where there. Six or seven Wigan Casino visits during the long hot summer of your misspent youth would be a very potent image, potent enough for rose colored glasses? The final third would be the real deal, the Wigan Casino regulars who actually shaped the genre along with the DJ's? The problem is that no one wears a badge, well some do but they are most likely as the result of e-bay? Every one is entitled to their opinion and it is only a film, I think it could have been so much more than just a film, it could have been a reference point for futre generations giving a full on look at our culture but sadly it is not. I can see why so many are emotional about this film, and emotional for much different reasons with some very different emotions indeed. I think those who missed out on being involved with this film have had a narrow escape.