Spurred on by what I thought was a rather unnecessary and maybe even ill-considered jibe by my good pal Mr. Lalor elsewhere on the site, I thought I'd throw this open to the board...

Why do some of us tend to give short shrift to several major soul acts of the 70s , just because they had the audacity to have a few UK Top 20 hits?

Chris had a little dig at the Stylistics - to my mind one of the greatest sweet soul groups of all time, thanks to the many sublime records they made with Thom Bell (and I'm not including 'Rockin' Roll Baby' among them) between 1972 and 1974. Their first record "You're A Big Girl Now" would belong in the Group Soul Hall Of Fame, if such a thing existed. As representatives of 'Golden Era' Philly Soul, the're as important as the O'Jays, Harold Melvin and the Blue Notes and any other act that you can think of. Sure they made their fair share of cack in the mid 70s after they stopped working with Thom and started working with Hugo & Luigi, but their first two albums and the songs they contain are beyond reproach.

The Chi-Lites tend to be ignored by many for the same reason, but group soul records don't get any better (or sadder) than "Have You Seen Her", "A Letter To Myself" and, especially, "I Never Had It So Good (And Felt So Bad)".

So why do many who should know better - both on here and elsewhere - dismiss the likes of the Stylistics and the Chi-Lites out of hand? ("Because they're Sh*t" is not the right answer, BTW...)

And which other artists can you think of in the same 'category', who shouldn't be?

Maybe many were under rated cos "we" didn't feel it was "cool" to be associated with any soul that hit the charts. Eg recently Duffy

I'm with scunnyjack on many of his trax listed above.

Maturity is a wonderful thing, just like Main Ingrediant's album Euphrates River.

Wife still loves "So Very Hard To Go" by ToP and although I thought at the time

she was commercial/lightweight in her choices, well she's stood the test of time!

The Dramatics were the same group, and I had bought Whatcha See Is Whatcha Get and In The Rain before ever hearing Inky Winky Wang Dang Do.

I, like a number of the older people on here would be subscribing to Blues & Soul by 1970, and as well watching the rare soul scene develop, was also buying new releases having read reviews in the magazine.

As well as the Dramatics, others that spring to mind in the early 70's that I bought include:

Luther Ingram-If Loving You Is Wrong

Chi-Lites- Give More Power To The People

Millie Jackson - Ask Me What You Want

Stylistics- Stop,Look & Listen

Al Wilson- Show & Tell

Skylark-Wildflower

Main Ingredient - Everybody Play's The Fool

Bloodstone - Natural High

Bobby Womack- Harry Hippie

Tower Of Power- So Very Hard To Go

Harold Melvin - I Miss You

Invictus and Hot Wax releases- Honey Cone,Chairmen,8th Day and Freda Payne etc.

With the exception of Skylark, who I cannot remember anything about, I have continued collecting other material by these artists plus many other 70's ones before, during and after the Blackpool, Wigan and Cleethorpe's Northern days, so rather than be dismissive, or overlook some of these artists who went on to major chart success, I consider myself lucky to be able to listen to such a fantastic array of music talent, and also be part of the Northern/Modern scene ( Although less frequent than the 70's).

Steve

Skylark were a mixed-race, self contained band from Canada, Steve. Their lead singer was Donny Gerard, later of "He's Always Somewhere Around" minor fame...

Maybe many were under rated cos "we" didn't feel it was "cool" to be associated with any soul that hit the charts.

...er, yes, that was the whole point of the thread in the first place, before people started going off at a tangent about singers and groups that they love who never got even a sniff of a UK hit, never mind a string of them!

Soul fans generally do NOT underrate groups like the Soul Children, the Main Ingredient, Tower Of Power etc. This was meant to be a bit of shout out for those regular visitors to the UK Top 40 whose work does get overlooked and scorned by far too many of us (you!)

If you want to come on here and say how much you hate the Stylistics or whoever, do it on your own thread please. Me, I come to praise Russell Thompkins Jr, not to bury him!!!!!!

Please try to stay on point, chaps...

I'll throw my hat into the ring with - The Real Thing.

Probably because not only did they have the audacity to get a few hits under their belt. But they are British too! AND they were on the Britain's Got Talent of its day Opportunity knocks. Outrageous....or not

While I will concede there are a couple of the really slow tracks that dont cut the mustard. Their up tempo dance stuff is right up there for me.

.

Edit.

I just remembered I heard Lou Rawls - You'll Never Find on the radio last night. I can remember this being played at NS nights. I was beside myself with joy, as I'd not heard it in a couple of decades probably. No idea what his other stuff is like, because he had this hit, so as Tony's OP says, I kind took him for granted and largely ignored his stuff.

.

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One not for this thread, but a track I always associate with the early 80s is Inner Circle - Everything is great. I once saw a DJ with that in his box. Asked if he was going to play it and he said he wouldnt because late night radio had picked it up. I think I heard it first on Luxemburg.

Edited February 11, 201015 yr by in town Mikey

I'm not into the sweet side myself but as for the group theme how about the soul children. All top class stuff and overlooked a wee bit.

Very overlooked in my opinion the 'Friction' lp is one of the most complete soul lps. I love the way the group exchange lead vocals on different tracks, a true masterpiece.

Lee Garrett!

Had a Top 20 hit in '76 with the wonderful "You're My Everything". The "Heats For The Feet" album is great plus the original version of "Heart Be Still". Great songwriter but I love his voice as well.....

Ian D

Jimmy James & The Vagabonds definitely fall into that category....most people think of "Now Is The Time" or "I'll Go Where The Music Takes Me" both pretty dire I admit...but his version of "Aint No Big Thing" is sublime and IMO the best version.

...and The Drifters

Jimmy James & The Vagabonds definitely fall into that category....most people think of "Now Is The Time" or "I'll Go Where The Music Takes Me" both pretty dire I admit...but his version of "Aint No Big Thing" is sublime and IMO the best version.

In the 60's I thought he was so far in the shadow of Geno Washington that I just wasn't bothered.

Around about 1970 happened to see him live. Half way through wandered off to do something else.

Later 1970's fairly bland chart hits (IMHO).

Circa 2005 for some reason I bought the CD Vagabond King: The Sixties Sides.

At long last I GOT Jimmy James. Great SOULFUL VOICE. LOVE HIM!!

MB

Edited February 11, 201015 yr by MBarrett

Lee Garrett!

Had a Top 20 hit in '76 with the wonderful "You're My Everything". The "Heats For The Feet" album is great plus the original version of "Heart Be Still". Great songwriter but I love his voice as well.....

Ian D

Lee Garrett's "So Far Away" on World Artists is a magnificent ender, which seems to be unknown to many. I'm not sure if this is the same singer as the guy who had UK hits in the 70s.

Lee Garrett's "So Far Away" on World Artists is a magnificent ender, which seems to be unknown to many. I'm not sure if this is the same singer as the guy who had UK hits in the 70s.

WAS IT THE SAME LEE GARRETT THAT WAS PART OF A SONG WRITING TEAM AT MOTOWNCIRCA 1970....I.EWITH STEVIE WONDER ON "ITS A SHAME"

WAS IT THE SAME LEE GARRETT THAT WAS PART OF A SONG WRITING TEAM AT MOTOWNCIRCA 1970....I.EWITH STEVIE WONDER ON "ITS A SHAME"

The guy who co-wrote "It's A Shame" and so-on with Stevie Wonder and Rita Wright is the same guy who had UK hits in the 70s on Chrysalis. Like Stevie Wonder he was also a blind artist. I'm unsure as to whether he's the same guy on World Artists, which is apparently from 1965, but it's possible. On the WA 45 Garrett tries to sound a lot like Sam Cooke and does it very well. Does anyone know for sure?

Lee Garrett!

Had a Top 20 hit in '76 with the wonderful "You're My Everything". The "Heats For The Feet" album is great plus the original version of "Heart Be Still". Great songwriter but I love his voice as well.....

Ian D

This is such a WEIRD COINCIDENCE.

I was just reading YESTERDAY EVENING part of a biography of Stevie Wonder.

It seems Lee Garrett first met SW when he went backstage at one of his concerts in Philadelphia. As a young, black, blind singer he kept getting mistaken for SW albeit he was 7 years older.

The book says he introduced himself by saying "Hi, I'm Lee, the other blind boy". Stevie thought that was hilariously funny and started making jokes about it at once.

At one point SW pushed him on stage and said "This is Stevie Wonder", and then ran off into the wings to come back a few seconds later and say "Oh, sorry, I'm Stevie Wonder."

They were friends and co-writers over many years.

MB

WAS IT THE SAME LEE GARRETT THAT WAS PART OF A SONG WRITING TEAM AT MOTOWNCIRCA 1970....I.EWITH STEVIE WONDER ON "ITS A SHAME"

Yep. One and the same!

Ian D