Seeing as we no longer have a recession as Christmas draws ever closer let’s imagine some bearded boffins invent some sort of time machine just like in the movies where you can go back through the years to what ever time frame you want.

Stand on the terraces and watch the 1966 World Cup Final - nah.

Wander the streets of Victorian London and point the finger at Jack The Ripper — nah.

Follow Jimmy Savile about in the sixties and say eh stop that right now — too right.

However I suspect many on this forum would simply wish to find themselves in Studio A listening and watching The Temptations in their prime.

Or walk a few miles across the city to see The Magnetics do a one take session on “Lady In Green”.

Hands up who would scour all those ghetto record stores in the late sixties and plunder all the unwanted unsold stock gathering dust in the backrooms....

But just like we can’t forget about the recession we can’t go backwards. However....

Google map USA opens as many doors as you want and makes travelling thousands of miles dead easy without getting up off the sofa.

Then re-read Robert Pruter’s magnificent Chicago Soul book again.

And if you’re a little bit inquisitive let your mind go wild.

Jacklyn Records operated out of a record shop at 2200 East Seventy-fifth Street...tap that address into Google Map USA and this is what you’ll see

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&pq=2200+east+75th+street&cp=29&gs_id=2e&xhr=t&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1280&bih=820&wrapid=tljp1333483790531214&q=2200+east+75th+street+Chicago&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x880e285c918d938d:0xeac3a42a875e5f78,2200+E+75th+St,+Chicago,+IL+60649,+USA&gl=uk&ei=H1l7T5ecDMb80QXvu7ilCQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCAQ8gEwAA

It’s the closest thing we’ll ever get to going back in time.

Penny Records was part of the Met Music Record Shop operation located at 328 East Fifty-eighth Street under the elevated stop on the South Side. A few years later a young Richard Pegue started work behind the counter at the Met.

Google Map USA shows the sun shining but there’s not much left of the old neighbourhood.

But be careful the hours go by very quickly whilst wandering up and down the streets of the windy city. Or indeed anywhere in America.

derek

it's much less exciting being at those places in real life than looking at pictures and imagining...

it's much less exciting being at those places in real life than looking at pictures and imagining...

A lot of oppression and poverty that the music was born out of,a lot of hard times for folk trying just to make it as so many of the lyrics say as well as those that speak of love that overcomes whether man for woman,man or woman for the people.A lot of very exciting times as well no doubt interspesed with the everyday experiences of back then.I suppose thoughb it can seem less exciting being in those places now,the structre and archtechure of towns and cities change making some places barely recognisable but photos and books capture the thing in time forever as it was unchanging so the imagination does get the chance to weave magic in the mind looking and reading but changed as it maybe over time a place itself when visited can inspire imagination as well,, a here is where it happened feeling!

Edited October 15, 201212 yr by manusf3a

A lot of oppression and poverty that the music was born out of,a lot of hard times for folk trying just to make it as so many of the lyrics say as well as those that speak of love that overcomes whether man for woman,man or woman for the people.A lot of very exciting times as well no doubt interspesed with the everyday experiences of back then.I suppose thoughb it can seem less exciting being in those places now,the structre and archtechure of towns and cities change making some places barely recognisable but photos and books capture the thing in time forever as it was unchanging so the imagination does get the chance to weave magic in the mind looking and reading but changed as it maybe over time a place itself when visited can inspire imagination as well,, a here is where it happened feeling!

a) the google street images Derek is talking about from now, not old photos and books.

b) a lot has changed in the last 5 years but before then a large part of the south side still looked the same (except burned out and blighted from being empty / unused). Even now the area pictured is not "barely recognizable" and looks about the same

c) the jacklyn address is in south shore, a pretty nice neighborhood.

You're romanticising something that you don't know about and the stuff about "hard times" inspiring the music, like you're getting into the heads of the people who made it and imagining what must be happening at those places is problematic. Most places on the south side (excluding the new renovations in bronzeville) used to be much nicer places than they are now. Just now many areas are becoming much worse with record murders in Chicago this summer. Basically they tore down all the projects (which were horrible places to live), everyone got relocated via section 8 housing and other means, and people who were separated or at least settled are now mixed together and fighting for gang / drug territory. Tons of stray bullets hit innocent people. The most recently reported murder (actually I think there has been one since) happened 7 blocks from that photo:

https://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=8845964

Moreover, you're romanticising poverty, which is inherently problematic. I don't think people who live in poverty appreciate it. Especially the heavily segregated poverty that exists in Chicago (and other places like DC), where people kill their neighbors with guns and crack rather than seeing a way out.

also, that said, I don't think there's anything wrong with looking up the addresses where record labels were and seeing what they look like now in google streets. If you want to imagine fine. But do it with a grain of salt and understand that in reality you don't know the context.

also, that said, I don't think there's anything wrong with looking up the addresses where record labels were and seeing what they look like now in google streets. If you want to imagine fine. But do it with a grain of salt and understand that in reality you don't know the context.

For a start I wasnt on about going by google I was talking about going to places in generel,I was also talking about looking at old books and photos not the google images .Romantacising poverty, well I am guilty of romantacising what happens between a man and woman regardless of anything absolutely.guilty of"getting into peoples heads",as you put it ,completely,its called being empathic not "sympathy",which is completely different but empathy,trying to understand.I am most guilty when "trying to get into the heads",of the likes of Curtis Mayfield,Gil Scott heron and those of a like political stance,the oppression the political evil,poverty, as they speak of it through their songs ,I try as best I can can to imagine its effect on them and their thinking.

Are you from America because I am not but I am aware of all you say about Chicago and the demolition and rehousing and the good and the bad that came from it ,also that there were areas of good housing lived in by working back families back then ,just as in most places.I have plenty of relatives living in Philidelphia and have been a few times so though no way an expert do know a bit about american cities then or now.I certainly dont view peoples lives having being lived in some wonderful broadway production about "poor folks in the city",and how happy they be!whatever rose coloured lenses I once had in that direction were stood on and crushed a long time ago and good riddance.I am very aware of the last year in chicago and the killings along with the intervention of farrakhans nation of islam people patroling the streets to show the police are powerless to stop the killings.(I am no way farakhans fan but if the killings at least slow right down then good.)

Oh how I sit here romatacising poverty from my first floor council flat,I dont think,it may not be the Usa big city but here in little old Peterborough Uk we can still show some empathy for the folks caught up in gang wars,crack and heroin addiction and what it brings to the person and those around them.A couple of years ago I stopped going to drug death funerals ,by that I mean overdose,hep c liver disease,dvt through injecting in the groin,there was just to many (well for me) every month at least one some months more,put this with folk from my home town of Corby( not as many but still to many) and its still going on.These days its family funerels only for my attendance unless the person was very, very close to me .I am sure the begger addicts round town who sleep in sheds,lean tos garages would share many experiences with folk in the states except for the shootings but whos to say that wont become the norm in the future.Im actually a fan of Peterborough theres lots of good folk and theres a lot going for the place but it also has its problems but I am not romatacising the poverty!any more than I would of any other place or era.but through some terrible things people do come through.

Edited October 15, 201212 yr by manusf3a

Google (& Bing) maps are great for seeing how things looked a few months back but they constantly update their info & so you never get things in a 'historical context'.

What someone needs to do now is go back to the 60's / 70's maps / aerial photos and start loading those up online.

So much of the neighborhoods that we are interested in have been decimated over the last 30 years.

Pull up modern day maps of the 'soul' areas of Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Miami, etc and what you see bears no relation at all to what was there in the 'glory years' (60's / 70's).

Just about all the top chiltlin circuit venues are long gone. The studios, record shops, bars , small local clubs have all been bulldozed. To get a feel for what an area was like, we need aerial or street shots that are over 30 years old.

.... AND ... its not just the street scenes that we have lost. It amazes me how few photos there are of soul artists performing in top US & UK theatres / clubs. Every week across the USA (back in the 60's) there would be upwards of 100 artists performing in chitlin circuit venues but how many were photographed & which of the few shots that were taken still exist. About the only place I can think of where photos are available is the Apollo in Harlem.

Top acts (usually 5/6) played venues such as Carr's Beach from the 40's thru to the 70's .... but try to find photos of them & only about a dozen can be found on the net -- and many of those concentrate on the MC (DJ) with just the act in the background.

I was at the Wheel (for the last time) yesturday and for 4/5 years they had top acts on live at every Saturday allniter, but how many photos of those acts exist today and it is very few. I find this strange as many of the acts were 'charting' at the time (late 60's) and it was their only show in the Manchester area on each tour. You would have thought the local newspaper's entertainment's reporter would have gone along to interview / photograph the likes of Ike & Tina, Edwin Starr, Ben E King, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Ruffin, Jnr Walker, Johnny Johnson & Bandwagon, Drifters, etc; but they don't seem to have made the effort.

Edited October 15, 201212 yr by Roburt

I live in Chicago. This is your quote:

A lot of oppression and poverty that the music was born out of,a lot of hard times for folk trying just to make it as so many of the lyrics say as well as those that speak of love that overcomes whether man for woman,man or woman for the people.A lot of very exciting times as well no doubt interspesed with the everyday experiences of back then

You were responding to a post in a thread entirely about looking up places with google maps. Apparently you were talking about old photographs. You talked about the changing city without understanding how the city changed. The south side (with some exceptions like the Bronzeville neighborhood) has become more blighted when it was vibrant before, and many places look the same just run down -- you were saying that it looks totally different.

Has the increased poverty inspired more music that you would enjoy? Do your current conditions inspire great music?

Also, I did not see Nation of Islam members patrolling the streets (even though I do regularly see them on the corner selling the "final call" which is their newspaper). I'm not sure what you're referring to. The record murder rate is something that is happening this year though, not last year, and nobody is patrolling the streets to stop it.

Anyways, I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out that imagining what it must have been like and imagining that poverty inspired music (which were your words and which sounds like romanticizing to me), really is out of touch. I have no idea what the conditions are like where you live, nor do I pretend to.

I live in Chicago. This is your quote:

You were responding to a post in a thread entirely about looking up places with google maps. Apparently you were talking about old photographs. You talked about the changing city without understanding how the city changed. The south side (with some exceptions like the Bronzeville neighborhood) has become more blighted when it was vibrant before, and many places look the same just run down -- you were saying that it looks totally different.

Has the increased poverty inspired more music that you would enjoy? Do your current conditions inspire great music?

Also, I did not see Nation of Islam members patrolling the streets (even though I do regularly see them on the corner selling the "final call" which is their newspaper). I'm not sure what you're referring to. The record murder rate is something that is happening this year though, not last year, and nobody is patrolling the streets to stop it.

Anyways, I'm not trying to be a jerk, just pointing out that imagining what it must have been like and imagining that poverty inspired music (which were your words and which sounds like romanticizing to me), really is out of touch. I have no idea what the conditions are like where you live, nor do I pretend to.

Already said it its not just chicago but all cities and towns Im talking about. the nation of islam thing ,well as far as I have read ,didnt farrakhan say he was going to have nation of islam people on the streets to do something about the crime and killings that are going on in the black community,well if he didnt then fair enough.Fair enough to that I wasnt exactly reponding to the images starting the thread,,seen plenty of that havent you!.Oh as you are unsure"this last year,meaning what has gone so far this year,is different from last year,meaning the previous year and its the murder rate up to now I mean,no doubt the same one you meanFair enough there are no doubt plenty of places that though run down still look the same in chicago as in other cities but thers plenty of cities and towns that have changed dramatically i over years.What inspires great music,plenty of things but mostly those that happen at the far ends of the scale of highs and lows for emotions and experience,What do you think inspires great music.

Edited October 15, 201212 yr by manusf3a

I'm not trying to start something personal with you. Especially as a moderator I should have stayed out of it, this quote "A lot of oppression and poverty that the music was born out of" just struck a nerve. I don't think there's a dialog going on at this point, I'm sorry if my post came across as attacking you and I'm sure you're a nice person. Sorry again.

Google maps street view is a tremendous feat however it's worth noting the search facility isn't 100% accurate. If you enter an address you don't necessarily find yourself at the correct door number, so can often be looking at the wrong building. If a record label has an address printed on very often I'll have a look at google maps, but plenty of times I've had to go up and down streets in street view zooming in on anything that looks remotely like a number on a building in an effort to find the right one.

I'm not trying to start something personal with you. Especially as a moderator I should have stayed out of it, this quote "A lot of oppression and poverty that the music was born out of" just struck a nerve. I don't think there's a dialog going on at this point, I'm sorry if my post came across as attacking you and I'm sure you're a nice person. Sorry again.

;Thank you for your thoughts ,I did go away from the thread a lot by not concentrating on the images and I do appreciate that I struck a nerve I read things that do the same to me sometimes,I did know a bit about the rehousing that went on in chicago but ovviously not as much as your self living there , same with the murder rate ths year again though not as much as yourself as I like to read up a lot on things that are happeni9ng in America,news ,politics etc( but as we know media arent always the most truthful) and get regular e mails from relatives, I am sure you are a nice person also thanks for your words atb manus.

Edited October 16, 201212 yr by manusf3a