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Guest Brian Fradgley

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Guest Brian Fradgley

I've been very fortunate with the year of my birth to actually live through probably the greatest era of soul music in its widest context, and more importantly, to have been actively involved with it.

One thing still puzzles me however about the line between "modern soul" and "northern oldies"

As we are now one and a half decades into the 21st century, why are "modern" soul sounds predominantly now over 45 years old, whilst "northern oldies" are predominantly only ten years older?

The dictionary definition of "modern" is "of the present or recent times".

Should modern now be relegated to "oldies" and northern oldies to "senile" ?

Does it matter?

And why do some DJ'S seem reluctant to feature both, together with 90's "juvenile" soul and 21st century "newies"?

Yours on the verge of senility..... and very much with tongue in cheek

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Guest Matt Male

Because oldies doesn't mean old it means played out a lot and newies doesn't mean new or modern, it means just heard out or recently discovered. So you can have a 60's newie and an modern oldie from the 90's.

 

Some people use the term 'modern' all the way back to the 70s, but as someone who doesn't get out on the modern scene I don't really know what 'modern' is or where the line is drawn, to me it's 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s... northern soul oldies and newies.

Edited by Matt Male
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Modern is old but it's modern compared to the older oldies. But newies are also oldies as they were new 30 years ago. But an oldie could become a newie if nobody's heard it as an oldie. Oh dear, it's much better not to think too much about this and just have a nice cool drink and a sit down.

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Brian Fradgley, on 16 May 2014 - 4:45 PM, said:

I've been very fortunate with the year of my birth to actually live through probably the greatest era of soul music in its widest context, and more importantly, to have been actively involved with it.

One thing still puzzles me however about the line between "modern soul" and "northern oldies"

As we are now one and a half decades into the 21st century, why are "modern" soul sounds predominantly now over 45 years old, whilst "northern oldies" are predominantly only ten years older?

The dictionary definition of "modern" is "of the present or recent times".

Should modern now be relegated to "oldies" and northern oldies to "senile" ?

Does it matter?

And why do some DJ'S seem reluctant to feature both, together with 90's "juvenile" soul and 21st century "newies"?

Yours on the verge of senility..... and very much with tongue in cheek

Quite a few threads on SS about this Brian.

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Guest manusf3a

Modern is old but it's modern compared to the older oldies. But newies are also oldies as they were new 30 years ago. But an oldie could become a newie if nobody's heard it as an oldie. Oh dear, it's much better not to think too much about this and just have a nice cool drink and a sit down.

Thats right a modern thats become an oldie that was a newie when I was off the scene and now on being back a while when I hear it its  now a newie  to me isnt it?Cool drink does sound better,or does it?

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Brian, you just open up a can of worms trying to define Soul music. Pre 1970 is, on the whole, a pretty basic sound, after that the styles, production and arrangements went through a gradual change. The sixties was an era gone but not forgotten, the black artists of today would much prefer the more modern approach. Having said that, some songs recorded over the last ten years can have that old style feel to them. We should all feel fortunate to have so many styles of choice!

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Guest manusf3a

I get baffled as to what's what when it comes to putting soul music in categories. Oldies,newies,crossover,modern,r&b,popcorn,funk,funk edge northern. I don't care what pigeon hole it's in good music is good music.

Agree

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Thats right a modern thats become an oldie that was a newie when I was off the scene and now on being back a while when I hear it its  now a newie  to me isnt it?Cool drink does sound better,or does it?

 

As long as there are a few teenagers out there who (re)discover this wonderful music for themselves then it's all new to them, which is always a nice thing to see.

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Guest manusf3a

As long as there are a few teenagers out there who (re)discover this wonderful music for themselves then it's all new to them, which is always a nice thing to see.

To right it is,as many as possible,on the other end of the age spectrum I know a lad of   of sixty years young  and his missus,for many years into  rock and roll only a few years back getting into the music,now theyre out and about all over the place travelling  every week to nighters and soul nights,dancing loads and into soul with a real passion,,thats the real power of the sounds and the scene"age and passion ,no limits",for all involved.

Edited by manusf3a
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to even simplify further...if the term 'northern soul' was the first term used to give our scene a name,then the easiest thing to call any of the music played within the scene,whether it be modern,r&b,funk..etc...is 'northern soul'

 

dont get me wrong,when i think of northern soul,i hear the salvadors...tomangoes..eddie parker,and anything different from that i just call it what other people call it,but the top and bottom of it is,if its played on the northern soul scene...then im afraid its just northern soul

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Please, nobody mention crossover... :huh:

The crossover concept is key to what we're talking about. Prior to 1969, the records were mainly artists singing to amplified instrumental backing, sometimes with a full orchestra. Post 1969, electronic trickery started to play a greater role with synthesisers etc taking a lead at the expense of proper instruments. In the 1970's, newies were 1970's tracks with a high soul quotient but leaning more to the electronic end of the spectrum as the decade advanced. The vintage years of 'oldies' production, 1966-1969, crossed over into the embryo years of 'newies' sounds, hence the divide that emerged at Blackpool Mecca and subsequently Wigan, Cleethorpes etc. Fortunately, both periods either side of 1969 spawned enough decent music to hook us all, and lucky again, some of it is still emerging for the first time in 2014.

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The crossover concept is key to what we're talking about. Prior to 1969, the records were mainly artists singing to amplified instrumental backing, sometimes with a full orchestra. Post 1969, electronic trickery started to play a greater role with synthesisers etc taking a lead at the expense of proper instruments. In the 1970's, newies were 1970's tracks with a high soul quotient but leaning more to the electronic end of the spectrum as the decade advanced. The vintage years of 'oldies' production, 1966-1969, crossed over into the embryo years of 'newies' sounds, hence the divide that emerged at Blackpool Mecca and subsequently Wigan, Cleethorpes etc. Fortunately, both periods either side of 1969 spawned enough decent music to hook us all, and lucky again, some of it is still emerging for the first time in 2014.

 

Frankie, thats what i tried to say in post 9 but you've given it a better technical explanation :)

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