Agentsmith

for the record, i personally thought ginger's book was hilarious because when you meet him in the flesh he really is a bundle of laughs and some of the stories he has related, had us rolling in the aisles....evrytime i read "the skipton massacre" i am literally in tears of laughter because i can actually picture that happening...its like morcambe & wise, tommy cooper and norman wisdom all rolled into one!! in essence, its about the man and his life involved in the scene, whereas neil's book is ABOUT the scene as he has grown up with it, very stylish, glossy great images, testimonials, recollections from an array of contributors and one tome that keeps me looking in admiration...of course i did get the chance to add some input myself so it has even more resonance for me. i also think tim's book is excellent and about as close as you are going to come to perfection when trying to tell the story of wigan casino and as has been said here before, i dont believe anyone will be able to replicate such a book as a lot of years and research went into it. the wilson & mackenzie offerings on motown and its stars, respectively, are great fact finders as well when you want to know about the music that originally influenced us. i feel, that the book everyone would love to have and read has yet to appear and that will be from the pen of mr. searling....AM I NOT RIGHT?

is it the same backing track/identicle?

mike, only just read this...thats really odd and intriguing at the same time.....so was nothing done about finding out who purchased it? and where in this country, if here at all, it has disappeared to?

again agree mike, the crowd were NOT standing on the stage, as with all totp progs, the audience were BELOW the raised stage and they were LOOKING UP watching the dancers with drop jaws.....LIKE WOW!, WHAT PLANET HAVE I BEEN ON FOR THE LAST MILLION YEARS? AS I HAVE SAID....THIS IS NOT THE "SHOW FOOTAGE" just out of interest, will somebody PLEASE post up the full line-up on that night?,...i can vouch for jethro and steve powell, being the midland contingent from the catacombs, cant remember if jacko did it as well but there should be 7/8 dancers

yes, im aware of that......mike's train of thought is alike to mine mate, whilst it may be the totp studio....THIS IS NOT THE RECORDING, NOT THE ONE THAT WENT OUT ON THAT PARTICULAR THUSDAY NIGHT AND REPEATED ON AT LEAST 2/3 OTHER OCCASIONS.....THIS HAS TO BE A REHEARSAL....THE GENUINE "SHOW FOOTAGE" DOSNT EXIST ANYMORE. if you recall, last year i questioned the possibility that totp was taken by other european tv companies......AND MY THEORY IS THAT THERE'S A CHANCE IT MAY STILL EXIST IN ARCHIVES ABROAD...its a longshot....we may never know. the 8mm film has to viewed in the same context, pity some bright spark didnt smuggle one into totp on that occasion!

I CONCUR PETE, simon just so happened to be in the right place at the right time....regardless of wether they knew that and wether what he was doing was right!! you know we all realise that bootlegging is resonsible for robbing people of a legitimate dollar, even after they're long gone, but if for one moment you think out of the box........those boots amounted to far more in number than the artists original release which, in most cases was cut in little tin can studios with next to zero distribution....yet if 1000 boots were bought by 1000 appreciative soulies, at least that artist gained some recognition be it not monetary which they wouldnt have got otherwise....DONT GET ME WRONG a bit of the lucre would never go amiss, but they gave their heart and soul to these recordings and im sure at the end of the day, the fact that a 1000 people really got off on their song, that would mean the world to them. NOTICE i havent even mentioned the villain of the peice.....OR WAS SIMON REALLY??....whatever his ill-gotten gains, it remains a fact that he was largely responsible for bringing thousands of tunes to our attention that probably would have been discovered sooner or later, but he was there FIRST,....he just took the next step to make a larger audience aware. THINK ON THIS THOUGH.....in 74, there was the oil crisis......which resulted in vinyl being scrapped, recalled and melted down to keep the commercial music industry ticking over in the face of a severe shortage....WHAT IF ALL THOSE TUNES WE TAKE FOR GRANTED, HAD DISAPPEARED ON THE BACK BURNER?. we have a lot to be grateful for with regards simon and his ilk.

look pete, i know i said i love you man, as a good buddy and top record dealer but i want to put fat in the fire here, because im sure the toss has been argued over wether THAT TOTP footage IS.....THE ACTUAL RECORDING or......A DRESS REHEARSAL IN THE STUDIO'S because as far as i can remember the camera's were never pulled in that close, the lighting was not that bright and the camera angle whilst slightly above head height, was not at an oblique......I SAY FROM WHAT I CAN REMEMBER. more to the point, who originally posted this footage on soulsource, where did they source it from?. i have had this related to me on a number of occasions by tim brown that whilst researching for his book, he referred to bbc archives and questioned prominent people within the organization as to the original program whereabouts and availability, the response to which was, that it like a good many thousand other titles had been wiped from the tapes and thats not just totp but ALL types of programs......NO WONDER THE 70'S ARE THE FORGOTTEN DECADE....THE BBC MUST HAVE FELT EXACTLY THE SAME.......NOTHING WORTH KEEPING!!....IS THAT NOT AN IRONY?

yes i know its a boot chalkx, but the instrumental was NEVER legitimately released, so technically it ISNT a boot despite it being on the b-side of a boot....in all walks of life there are technicalities that challenge the blindingly obvious....im suggesting hypothetically, that infact the instrumental is THE VERY FIRST RELEASE of a recording that existed only on a studio tape. I DO take lps with me...BUT i would prefer, as i am sure we all would in certain cases, that particular tracks WERE on 7", thus, necessitating NOT taking lps with me!....i put the jerry butler version of "right track" onto a carver on account of the fact IT DOSNT EXIST on vinyl....it appeared once on a double cd compilation " the mercury years", u.s. release only, circa 1990 now long since deleted and very sought after. its a completely different take on his brother, billy's version.

guess this footage will never materialize dispite the fact, and i have no cause to disbelieve him, that dave kilworth says it does exist and the guy still has it.....perhaps even if he has been contacted, he feels it is the least of his priorities. i will always consider it a shame that we have lost the totp footage forever,a travesty of justice that the beeb had such a lack of foresight and thats regardless of what the actual record means to the scene...it was a time capsule that bought some legendary dancers to the attention of, not just the bewildered public at large, but to all followers of this religion who, in their time, were inspired to do just the same...the outcome now being a greater exposee of that era but in the hands of 100's of young kids who likewise, are seeking something more aspirational than the everyday mundane ....the worm has turned....what goes around, comes around, only difference is its 40 years on and we live in a hi-tec age...to these young generations what was considered some inane novelty to the press in their parents time, is actually cool, is music that dosnt have to have graphically aggressive lyrics and is so much easier to dance to and, contrary to popular belief, you DONT need drugs to get off on it. as regards the footage here, its included in "way of the crowd", the dvd is titled "soul junction" and, unbelieveably is now 7 years old!. footnote: featured in the closing sequence is chris ( trickster )...what an irony...havent seen this guy in the flesh since trips to the 100 club, early millenium...well blow me down if this guy isnt standing in front of me at the kings hall, stoke last week...he said he hadnt been to stoke for 12 years!

ive already mentioned on here about the soultown boot of the sweets - satify me baby, which includes the totally unissued instrumental backing track on the b-side. whilst it would be nice to have a genuine with the official b-side - something about my baby, for say,£900 i think there's no problem with playing the instrumental of the a-side because its actually UNISSUED, and to this day still is. and there's nothing wrong with vinyl carvers so long as we are talking about completely unissued tracks ( on vinyl that is )....what about cutting tracks from lps because you dont want to cart lps about when you are djing?, especially if those tracks never made it to a single but were considered good enough to be played on the scene?

it'll be the first time somali pirates ask for a record collection instead of money then?

i love you man,.....you're so reserved

GREAT CLIP!...it certainly wets the appetite, going to be a bit of a wait before we get the finished article but it has to be a 1000 times better than the previous lacklustre offering...the headbutt is a distinct nudge towards commercial establishment interference, and, is even moreso correct right now.....GET THE KNIVES OUT NOW AND STAB THOSE BARSTEWARDS BEFORE THEY DO IT TO US! ...so to speak. i think we're all getting excited at the prospect of for once seeing our "landscape" painted in a true perspective....it has to be about why the scene is here, why it survives and why in those tortueous early days it had to deal with its own growing pains, amidst the media furore and band wagon jumping. set against a 70's backdrop that, almost in its entireity, is a forgettable decade , northern soul has been escapism from run-of-the-mill, mundane life...thats what it was for us of a certain agegroup who had to endure it. so if the film, as we've seen in this trailer is setting out to make the media look as banal as they always have been, then so much the better and....if it brings an accepability of this genuine original music to a wider audience in a way that is both serious, funny and thought provoking, then we will all have reached our goal....a film that does what it says on the tin.

absolutely right on the playlists, plenty going up all the time on this sight....you simply have to TRUST the dj's....on soulsource alone, there's a complete a-z of people who can make your night go with a bang...guarenteed...these people KNOW how to work A DANCE FLOOR.....you dont need to be asking for a cv ( or should i say cd ). anybody who is willing to put their neck & cash on the line to launch a new soul night, also has to be willing to get the people in who will make it work...is it any wonder you're making people uneasy/curios/nervous?....you need to take a leaf out of john & jules book at stoke, just ask people if they want/are free to do it...and if you REALLY want to make it vibrant/refreshing/interesting, keep the turnover of dj's UNLIMITED, as every dj has his/her ideas of a playlist and you'll never have a dull & boreing night...e.g. LEA MANOR - PRESTWICH ( these are just my recollections of diversity ) everybody else on here worth their salt will tout other venues that use the same principle.....DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR....FORGET THE CD

sad as it is, this scenario is becoming all too frequent, marv's profound contribution to the success of motown is well documented. i am sure that all concerned with the company will be deeply affected by his passing and we as lovers of the music he was part of, can only offer up our deepest sympathies to his immediate family...he will be remembered

imho, great double A sider. remember mick derry playing it at birmingham locarno all-dayers " how can i ever find a way", but never heard the b-side til about 10 years ago....same as a good many of you i suppose....but if you have to put it into perspective the speed conscious northern soulie of the 70's/early 80's never even gave the b-side of a record a second glance, especially if they happened to be a dj as well and cued one up accidentally, subsequently clearing the floor!.i guess stafford would have been the instigator of "flipping" as well as "slowing things down" and all of a sudden, tunes such as "heartaches" gained creedence ( although its not particularly medium paced ). anyway,in this instance the bootleg didnt so much as make a ripple in the originals true value so, what you see it go for now is par for the course,based on the fact that whilst some consider it to be common, ITS NOT THAT COMMON!

nope, for instance, there are 40 gigs on nationwide this saturday and i'd say thats about average on any given saturday......i cant imagine for one minute that the SAME 500 records are being played across the uk, all at the same time. a dj set averages 20 records and most gigs average 5 hours ( discounting all-nighters ) so, realistically 5 gigs could play all 500, but even then, every gig could play a 100 different ones......so, you're still getting variety! in the meantime 35 other gigs could be playing 3500 different oldies...so the SAME, technically speaking dosnt exist? and another thing...should we keep referring to records as oldies simply because they were played way back when....the fact is, they were already old when we heard/danced to/bought them, by at least 6-8 years. to the younger generations getting into them, its all NEW MUSIC,....ITS JUST 36-38 YEARS OLD NOW!!

I THINK YOUR QUESTION HAS BEEN WELL AND TRUELY UN- ANSWERED!! IN A SENTENCE: WE LOVE ALL OF EM'

currently have the earl gaines hbr lp with the definitive version, played at the casino by john vincent...also had the deluxe 7" a few years back which was a slower version

live performances have always contributed to artists standings on the northern scene, particularly in the early years with regular visits by major lance, the exciters etc...it was a big thing to see these heroe's then, but i think i tend to agree with the previous comment as the large proportion of us, as we have got older have concentrated on the catalogues associated with, not just these artists but many others and as a result, we all have our favourites. my examples would be: jack montgomery, darrell banks, garland green, deon jackson, roy hamilton & on the female side linda jones, tobi lark/legend maxine brown....its possible to go on forever because as the decades have passed, we've discovered many more unsung greats...its such a pity that the scene has taken such a long time to evolve, where we've reached the point that those who are still alive, can be brought to the stage & spotlight by people such as kev and ady, but they're in their twilight years....we've had to take time to develope a deep appreciation of them before we realise exactly what we've been missing....just goes to show that the northern soul scene is a continual learning curve in every aspect

i can assure you, when i first heard it some 10 years ago at notre dame, i was completely gobsmacked!....you should ask nick brown about it, he did the original...i simply went into a recording studio with it fresh in mind, told the tec how the two tunes should be spliced and he mixed it down. it rounds up to something like 5 minutes...i had 3 copies cut, gave one to kenny onions and one to neil....cant for the life of me remember what happened to the other....believe me, it sounds BRILLIANT and it certainly WONT drive you off the dancefloor, even at 5 mins long....so perhaps neil might consider doing a limited run of it just to prove a point.

what?.....only ONE tune john?....you're having a giraffe lad, you've got THOUSANDS more like this hidden under your bed

ive read all the quotes on this continuing saga and decided to chime in on this one in particular, but just in brief. just like our formost iconic dj's, the scene does not revive, it simply reinvents to suit the next generation. our scene and our music is durability accentuated. one thing it could never be tagged with is an andy warhol " fifteen minutes of fame" rebuke. a "wearing our hearts on our sleeves" celluloid celebratory acknowledgment of our all-consuming love for northern soul, surely is worth the effort, especially in the hands of a true soulie who wants to tell the story without so much as a stereotypical commercial distraction....the trap that has been fallen into before. this has to be a statement, akin to a stone carved monument,...a defining moment that from a visionary's point of view, we have never come close to fulfilling without unwelcome intervention from an unknowledgeable media and its other subsidiaries. im probably like a good many others who do not know elaine personally, but reading the dialogue here, has alone, convinced me of her positivity. i remember, like a good many of you out there, the hype and furore that encompassed the release of the award winning documentary about the funk brothers and the triumphalism of finally achieving the recognition they deserved as much as the indebtedness, owed to them by their begrudging employer's motown....without them, there would have been no story and remember,....the foundation stones of our scene were built on the sounds coming out of detroit....the initial backbone of what morphed into northern soul. that documentary is like an eleventh commandment, set in stone, where the roots of our musical heritage came from..... so now is the time for a twelfth and, be it not a documentary, its by the people, for the people, the most important belief anyone should possess in telling our story the right way. i truely believe we can have before us a film we will watch and relate to, over and over for the rest of our natural lives.

hi neil, just a thought, but didn't you consider putting that remix i gave you, onto vinyl. nick brown was responsible for that, a good ten years ago. remember i did you a cd?

im pretty sure when we were at mick h's birthday bash, kitch told me richard played eddie daniels at the casino so,...it wouldnt be a surprise if he did have the hopkins brothers at that moment in time, would it?...i think we are all aware of a sea change beginning in richard's taste of music around 76, although these tunes ( or tune ) probably didnt feature til around 78, so i am lead to believe.