Tlscapital

Cheesy delicious !

Two in One ; the Rotations 'trying to make you my own' rather singular singing stil resonates in my head as to what other tune it reminds me off... To link it to a specific singer if ever... Suddenly Charles Lamont and the Extremes 'I Got to Keep Movin'' on Challenge came up as contender worth checking... If ever it could be a comparative contender. And well... Digging further into it on another 'recent' theory raised on 45cat.com about Charles Lamont being in the most dis-believable way IMHO one and the same as Johnny Olenn & the Extremes on Dee Gee and Entree.. it begged for further exploration. Especially as Johnny Olenn is a well known Rock'n'Roll figure, His version of 'keep on movin'' is nothing like the Charles Lamont one although the same song but most of all the singing is not at all the same and Johnny Olenn's singing never a match. Plus he is not black nor impressing to sing like one ! So I questioned the OP theory directly on 45cat.com proposing that them both Johnny and Charles were one and the same singer. Even if both Johnny and Charles singles were backed by the Extremes which was an old formation of Charles Ingersoll and Bobby sanders from their school days. FWIW the Johnny Olenn's cut was registered under the 'Symbol' Buck ram copyright company in November 1964 but without real trace of release or radio 'air play' charts to attest of it's date of release while the Charles Lamont is 4 Star Sales Co. & Lenoir one by March 1965 has it's Monarch matrix Δ 56753 ! Charles Ingersoll the composer (being the link) in my guess could be Charles Lamont (alias) real name. So Charles Ingersoll could have proposed this composition of his first to Buck Ram proprietor of Dee Gee and Entree records who then got Johnny Olenn & the Expressions to sing it and released first if ever. Thereafter Charles Ingersoll could have cut another deal with old friend Bobby Sanders to sing and release it on Challenge backed with another of his composition 'Doin Mickey's jerk'. Introducing Charles Ingersoll to Bobby Sanders future projects on his Soultown stable and the later Canterbury & Minit ventures. There and then Charles Ingersoll would soon become a one time member of the Younghearts and so also maybe of the L.A. Tempos for example. And if that is him (maybe only once again) he could then be the one singing on their side 'Sad Sad Memories' released on Soultown or Canterbury... thoughts anyone ?

I'm no specialist of UK gear but I noticed that too. But what an odd thing to stuck on an EMI acetate label on a single sided vinyl test press then ? Or was that a common UK EMI practice ? Some of the French pre-releases 45's made from UK EMI & Co. 45's were occasionally solid center single sided too FWIW... What is the machined Matrix of the TMG ? To compare could maybe tell us something. Then I was also surprised by the glue smudge over the 'crinkled' outer label ring that could indicate some DIY amateur job... But that would prove to be a lot of fuss for a rather common record. But like sewing patches and all required a lot of time from those who did have more time for their passion than they had money. I know I did. Although I never 'dressed' my records. Too much respect for that.

Not much I'm afraid. But I'm no British releases collector.... £20 / 40 ?

The stamp matrix is machined so it's indeed a genuine acetate.

Exactly. And so I've already submitted these revisions as disclosed here on this matter for both Edith Brown and Sam & Kitty entries on Discogs to learn this morning that they were accepted both. Spread out the truth ! Good golly I feel like I'm on a Holly mission now ! LOL

Same from books (where this 'legend' took root) or all (mainstream too) media (propaganda in disguise), schools and Universities (tainted and made up history and "human science" theories). But likely with those last at least they are edited from a responsible disclosed source able to answer. On tintenet not always. True.

Exactly. The odd factor of the single sided white promo label (ARP pressing only) also tends to indicates further more that his VIP release was never considered a "proper" commercial contender if ever anyway.

No I didn't drop anything. I was asking. Answers given I take. And so I did. Why would I be disrespectful toward Miss Kitty Groove ? How and where ? And if someone found the contemplation of Miss Kitty Grove to possibly be an exotic dancer as my quest could have suggested to be I'm sorry. Such was not my intend. But I don't disgrace exotic dancers as persons necessary as likes of below moral values none the less or unworthy of respect in that regard only.

Thanks a bunch. I was about to PM you (to ask if it was as I thought Kitty on those pics in the Willie Weems article) while I got stuck struggling with other urgent work bits and so you beat me to it. Wonderful. and those extra picks are just... Fantastic ! And to cut short to the 'legend' of Kitty being another alias to Edith Brown sets the record straight once and for good within the family tree of Jack Daniels on top of it. Smooth.

OK well I didn't know who Kitty was. Now I know. I wondered if and you think that...

Am not linking them from the beginning. Only asking if anyone knows better if she could be or not one and the same 'Kitty' girl ? Ohio and Illinois are neighboring States... The New Pilne Lounge advert featuring the Cleveland, OH Rotations and the 'Exotic Miss Kitty' should date from 1970 or 1971. So some 5 years after the Sam & Kitty 45's. The girl picture here above on the right was 'highlighted' with other pictures of her seemingly in the Willie Weems article. Since they look 'similar' enough I juxtaposed them. Could both these be Katherine 'Miss Kitty Grove' Stewart ? Those pictures together with such 'stage' nick-name tells us that this / these girl (s) were 'center stage' attraction (s). Now I get that this quest seems not only 'out of the blue' but also 'out of nowhere' without other solid back-up infos relating both pictures. But one quest seeks exactly that ; facts. Then if not leads to confirm or infirm the possibilities. Besides the 'unlikely' we didn't get a negative. But on the other hand maybe with this Willie Weems article lead we have our Miss Kitty Grove. The link with the first B / W picture is not that relevant to me. To know that Singing Sam was Leon Dandridge and & Kitty was Katherine Stewart is most satisfying for me at least. Now confirmation on the Kitty hat ?

Either not the same Kitty character or a revelation for a "change" of life from the 'cabaret' to be wed and divorced to the 'church'. This prime article gives us different photos of many not pointing who's who but if ever the similitude is as easy (maybe too easy) as striking somehow. Actually they might not be related at all too. But could it...

I realized that. Will ask the moderator to split it into a new thread.

Double Cookin' and Festival Time I could never keep these close in my mind in both incarnations as they're that distant from my heart. Ever since, but doggone you're right they're sitting right up there in the NS TOP500 wall with the Good, the Bad and the Ugly... selective memory... Jo Armstead titles are merely variations on the same words in title in my book. But let's say O-kay-ish... Doni Burdick and Rose Batiste are different recordings. Although both versions are utterly fantastic. Vocally and instrumentally. Top ! Luther was mentioned above. Top too.

Ronnie & Robyn vocal was initially planned as is. The instrumental came out just after. But am not found of the very 'not so soulful' vocals there. And the instrumental is immense so that gets my vote... The unissued Mayfield 'don't start none' as instrumental is weak-ish in comparison. As it is clearly only a backing track instrumental full of 'nothing happens' holes awaiting the vocals it was cut for. Without the necessary vocals fillings it loses my listener's listening attention and to dance to it is a bore IMO. Although the Mayfield Singer "amateurish" vocal treatment is sadly not up to the task either IMO. Title changes for instrumentals over vocals or vice versa are not that many as far as "northern soul" sounds are concerned I reckon. Beside this 'Sidra's Theme' nothing actually comes to mind on the spot...

If ever someone knows for fact that it is or it is not Kitty of Sam & Kitty or has better constructive doubt and or leads 'because and because'... Appreciated.

Not sure a vocal could easily fit over that full-on frantic instrumental of a tune. Luther Ingram 'if it's all...' is a rare prime example of such a smart successful fit. But for the rest most of the times I find the instrumental versions to work better. The Kaddo Strings over the shabby some Duke Browner 'cringing' singing who struggles to stay fit over the powerful drive of the tune is a good example of a not so good fit IMO. Even if the vocal still has the favor of the dee-jays to this day. FWIW I first had my Atlantic issue of 'frantic escape'. My then 'find memory' sticked to it emotionally but once I got a Pameline issue I heard how the louder and deeper mastering worked there. Instantly I sold my Atlantic copy never to regret.

Shing-A-Ling by The Cooperettes could have been the Irma & the Fascinations 'you need love' cut that was previously unissued until issued by goldmine on a Sevens 45. Innocent bystanders 'frantic escape' ?

I know but Miss Kitty Grove...

Taking to OP to a slide two seconds could that (right photo column, middle section to the left) be Kitty from Sam (Singing) & Kitty (grove) 'I've got something good ' fame ?

Singers "natural" classification in tone between bass, baritone or alto is that. But it does not mean evidently that one such 'classified' singer can't sing otherwise in another tone. Even less in the lower or higher tone around their 'natural' set tone. On that Cheerios 'ding dong honeymoon' example we can clearly hear the limit in every sense of Ralph's singing ability to switch from low bass tones to a higher singing bass tone that seems to be his "natural" tone. I'd say he's more of a high bass singer. So if that example shows what Ralph's singing surely the Rotations 'trying to make you my own' is not Ralph indeed. As the lead here is a natural high toned baritone with tight phrasing showing he's at his natural singing here. And really nothing like Morris for me. Such tight and dry phrasing especially is nothing reminiscent of Morris Chestnut singing. Unless Morris wanted to 'impersonate' another singing "character" and prove like some others did his versatility ability in singing if he could... Yet somehow I doubt that from Morris. The quest for this Rotations lead singer keeps on. Likely putting at rest the Attractions Chestnut Connection with this Rotations Mala single. That I first spontaneously went for. The 'who's who' behind that most improbable double sider of one and a same group remains to be disclosed.

Sorry if ever but I meant 'OUR' ears in the generic sense and not yours and mines in particular or in this instance. But yes, OK.

Ineed. The Mala Rotations by ear for the 'trying to make you my own' side is clearly a L.A. product. It's 'A' side 'misty roses' on the other hand is far too weird to sound like anything so specific. If both sides are related at all even. Could be a 'split' 45 covered with some fantasy credits... Leaving only the composer's and arranger's credits for lead with a Bill Justis production badge. By ear the Law-Ton / De Brossard is altogether unmistakably another group than the Frantic's. And although our ears are not hearing the same things they will be fooling until proven wrong. While at it what's your take on my theory of the Vows 'buttered popcorn' being the Contours ?

1958