Paul-s

Yes. Any song or anything, with 'Once upon a time' is how this joke runs i think...😉

Totally bizarre and extremely tenuous comment, lacking any real comic integrity and seemingly quite puerile and petulant. The Beeb actually did attract a mass audience by calling this facade 'Northern Soul', that was enough to get masses of people, many of whom wear their soul on a tee-shirt to attend and pretend. One just has to listen to the clip i posted to hear how farcical this 'Emperors New Clothes event was'. I'm not sure what your 'Once Upon a Time' refers to? Is it the classic Sergio Leone Western where this phrase originated in relation to modern media, or the timeless phrase we begin stories with? I think as Kenny Gamble sang...."The Jokes on You'.....

Yes, you have got it totally right. I have been able to judge many things from a distance, including music at the back of a hall, for my entire life. Ironically, you are judging my ability to judge. No amount of TV editing can make this sound or look good. Even your terminology 'the Beeb' makes me want to laugh. The Beeb, the Archers, Strictly Come Northern Soul Dancing, Northern Stroll music, all neatly packaged and sanitised to within an inch of its soul. It's all very cosy and lovely, and of course we can trust the good old 'Beeb' to become the caretakers/curators of Northern Soul.... My footage.....ha! Lifted off instagram from some poor soul who attended ....

I'm sorry, i just cant take this as"Northern Soul. But if this rocks peoples boat and they feel it deeply, well, they are free to do so. The Proms, like every other BBC event are aimed at a perceived customer base and it seems to have pleased the base they had imagined. To me, this sounds and looks embarrassingly cringey and dire...but thats just me..Everything i ran away from and escaped from via the Northern Soul scene. temp_10000000_646495744103466_191759475774737063_n.MP4

I think 'soulful music' is not limited to 'Northern Soul' and my musical taste is very diverse. But, the discussion is about a Proms event claiming to be 'Northern Soul', and many of us just didn't find the BBC representation of 'Northern Soul' either soulful or tasteful. Or, in fact, anything to do with Northern Soul (except in the song titles and advertising slogans). It's just a difference of opinion: but it is in a very particular context.

Because it was set in Wigan.

I totally agree. I was/am on the scene, including Wigan, which was formed of many great venues. Unfortunately, whenever documentaries, Proms, etc about NS are wheeled out, the makers take the same lazy route (via Wigan) in order to summarise an entire (complex scene). This is due to some people who have dined out (like Geldof on Live-aid) on the Wigan product(ion) since it closed and continue to push it as the be all and end all of the scene: even though these people never attended other venues or collected tunes beyond the Casino years. The makers of these events always head to this person(s) thinking they are the scene and its true historians: when nothing could be further from the truth. Sadly, this Proms set list illustrates that, as does the discussion of it as a great occasion for Northern Soul fans. It's lazy, shoddy and aimed at 'cashing In' on a new demographic of those who never went or have returned after long absences (where they missed out on decades of incredible music: the scene didn't stop or wait for them). So, to make them feel at home (in a historical sense), anthems rule and, like the National Anthem, this Historico-pastiche scene has 'Do I Love You' wheeled out on every possible "state' occasion, often weekly at some venues or several times a night. People sing along and act out yesteryear, but it lost its soulful context decades ago and comes across as an empty re-imagining, often by people who are imagining that they were there when they weren't. It's a perfect example of 'simulacra' (likeness, semblance, a representation or imitation of a person or thing). Anyway, these discussion are, or were, a huge part of the scene. I personally miss those souls who have left us and who had strong opinions, they made the scene and their energy is missed. It was strong opinions that allowed us to create this scene, and i get bored of people saying, "don't be negative" or "for once Paul. let it be". There is a huge difference between 'critique' and 'criticism'. All opinions expressed are entirely my own and I do not represent the '(e)state of Northern Soul' .😉

Heres the set list from the Proms. To me its the usual, homogenised, parody of Northern Soul set list (it goes along with Baggy trousers, circle skirts and vests in terms of hackneyed motifs) that lazy producers or DJ's wheel out when they haven't got a clue or any real knowledge or experience of the scene or artists who have made it. A set list that, for me, lacks nuance, depth, understanding or any real care about music. A google set list......"Alexa what is Northern soul" type thing: though i imagine that might be better than this somehow.

Totally agree, I was at Junior Walker at St Ives and saw Edwin many times. I would add Eddie Holman and Popcorn Wylie at Stafford to that.....and speeding off my nuts of course...😂

Perhaps, but not all....depends which line of NS you're into I guess. Also, there is a huge plethora (especially in the totally hammered Top 500), of what I can only refer to as 'Happy Clappy' NS (we can call it super 4/4 beat I guess). That stuff that people mime to week in and week out, pulling hands to hearts and raising arms to the sky: the now empty gestures of yesteryear. There are some great examples of this on Insta where some of the 'Insta(nt) Souls' dance to the 'Happy Clappy' tunes of the Top 500 in their kitchen or on a promenade, in a garden etc (usually facing camera), and fill the couple of super 4/4 minutes with these Northern Soul dance motifs that denote their 'super 4/4 Northern soulfulness'. They are, as you say, most definitely 4/4...but for for what purpose I have no idea: forgive my stammer...

The Times.....who cares what they say? Are they also curating the scene now?

Thanks for the advice...much appreciated. Entertaining for who....... I have the space and integrity to say, it is nothing to do with any Northern Soul scene i have ever been a part of. It was, for me, as Chalky said, everything i ran away from via the Northern Soul Scene. In fact my parents used to watch it! And i didn't, and dont, want to be my parents. Homogenised, sanitised, covers of NS vinyl is not my bag, thats all. And i will say that without advice from anyone. The mainstream NS scene is exactly that, mainstream, where any coverage of NS is considered good coverage by the disciples of the Top 500: be it by BBC middle class producers giving it the old 4/4, happy clappy beat, or Strictly Come prancing events or The Flying Pickets doing a musical play, or mundane, smiley self-obsessed dancers coming at me on instagram. It's as if people (many who were never really on the scene post Wigan, or at all it seems) are seeking validation via external arbitrators. Many cannot even just dance and 'get into it' without documenting themselves dancing or skipping or hopping around, posting how soulful they are online. It is, i have written before, 'historico-pastiche', a re-imagined past of Northern Soul based on spurious bits and bobs, assembled, curated perhaps, into a commercial package that is highly profitable, tame and devoid of any socio-political integrity. For me, it is everything I got into NS to escape from. Perhaps we can call this latest manifestation the 'Northern Stroll Scene'. "Just for once Paul, let it go" What a bland and flaccid statement. (just my opinion of course).

The Skys the limit I guess.......Could even extend it to Winter Holiday packages "Ski-ing In the Snow' Northern Soul weekender etc..

Yes. A good point! The people I went to nighters to escape from.......spot on I think.

https://www.warnerleisurehotels.co.uk/live-shows/nh/0/1/41/1176?gclsrc=ds&gclsrc=ds "It doesn’t matter where in the UK you hail from. If you remember hand-clapping in unison, spins, splits and backdrops, dressing in brogues, baggy trousers, vests and Fred Perry’s, wide skirts and flat shoes? If you love the dance beats and soulful sounds of hits such as ""Where Did Our Love Go”,” There’s A Ghost In My House, or ""Landslide"" then come and join us ""Out On The Floor"" on one of these lively and late festival break" Perhaps its just me, but I keep hearing 'Cashing In' ? The Proms , the homogenous representations of the scene, the idea that all coverage is good etc etc. Has the scene sold out and become a parody of its former self? Is there just an ageing populus who were never really 'on the scene'...they just went to Wigan, stopped, had kids and came back decades later and now clap at all coverage as good coverage? Are there multiple scenes that are homogenised by lazy BBC producers looking for an easy target market? Baggy trouser syndrome? Is there a Ghost in this house? Is it a commodification driven Landslide? Is the present scene everything it once railed against in order to become? I'm Interested in other perspectives.......

We must be on different scenes......im totally bemused.

The clue is in the name Frank 'Pop'... A 4/4 beat does not make it Northern Soul (these bands rarely go MoDo on you)...for me the genre expresses greater complexity and nuance than these outfits that present a facade, via a clumsy beat and glossy smiles. To me, the lack of depth is glaringly audible and obvious, its a visceral felling: or lack of... (only my very humble opinion of course).

Parody, tragedy, tribute, circus, pop, a bit of a laugh, Butlins at the weekend, Blues Brothers type thing.. But, nothing to do with Northern Soul except that the songs they cover have the same titles as some actual 'Northern Soul' songs. (Just my humble opinion, based on what i hear)

dearie me....

Tumble weed emoji should be placed here. 😂

To my humble ears ...they all sound soul-less and nothing to do with the scene or soul I connect(ed) with. Like Italia Conte trained musical theatre school stuff...... If they truly admired the music they cover, they wouldn't try covering it in the first place: realising that they fall very short of the original. I think it takes a lot of ego to attempt it. But, each to their own. Its just a different scene i think. I kind of soul in the sun, retired, Lost Summer Love, Interplay, historico-pastiche type thing. Just dont confuse it with Northern Soul.

amongst other things

Storming LP only track An old play (A Greg Belson play too).

One of my old plays.