Phild

I feel left out I've not had any. Phil

Mark, If these emails are abusive or nasty then that kind of behaviour simply cannot be condoned. I think whoever has sent these emails should be named and their content exposed. If they habve used SS PM facilities then possibly banned from the site for abuse. Mods ? This is supposed to be a forum for discussion and debate isn't it? Northern Soul is and always has been a very broad church, and as such will lead to conflict of opinion from time to time, but when it disintegrates to abusive or nasty personal messages and emails then that's taking things waaayyy too far. That's how I feel anyway. Phil

I suppose because I said I liked his stuff and said it had a right to be called Northern Soul, you maybe label me as a Levine disciple? Well I'm not. And I certainly don't agree with the way IL launched into folks the way he did on the radio show. But then again I believe in turning the other cheek. But that's because I'm actually a disciple of a different jewish bloke - one who was crucified 2000 years ago and whose entry into m y life changed everything for me. However, that said, I can understand the frustration that makes him react the way he does. He creates something that he, and indeed many others, feel is valid work. Gives artists who would otherwise never be heard a chance to perform again (just like he did with Motorcity). And all he gets is slagged off for it. The Flirtations, Jimmy James etc etc. Who else would give them the opportunity to have their voices heard again? Like I say I understand the frustration - he's an emotional bloke, but personally don't agree with how he handles it. Phil

Well, plenty changed tack from the influx of the Mod revival that I mentioned earlier. Their tastes couls have been seen as set. But on the contrary many went from listening to the tailor-made 60's soundalike records of the current Mod groups to wanting to hear more of the original music that inspired their heroes. Then from there many of them went into Northern soul If this true of that scene then why not of the Northern scene now? And as for your little jibe about my not being able to comment on the Mod revival. I can't from the inside, and indeed didn't try to. But I can comment as to what I saw as regards the Mod influx to the Northern scene in the 79/80 era. Also I have over the years spoken to several mods and ex-mods. In fact some my best friends are people who have spoken to mods too

Thanks to you and all who have PM'ed me. Looking forward to a good weekend whatever. Phil

I can't really comment on the Mod revival, never having been a part of it. But there was an influx of people dressed in 60's stuff on the northern scene around 79/80 I seem to remember. But a Northern Soul revival? Great idea!

That's exactly what I was trying to say Steve. On first exposure the scene (whether it be Rare Soul scene, Northen Soul scene or whatever you want) doesn't appeal at all to the vast majority of younger people. A project like Northernsoul 2007 could well be responsible for introducing new blood to the scene. The Mod revival in the early 80's brought plenty in (some of whom are on here now). And the Mod revival music was, whilst not soul, nothing more than people trying to make 60's sounding records to cash in wasn't it? And yet some of those former Mod revivalist types are IL's fiercest critics. Hypocrisy? Perish the thought. Phil

Could have been. I never had the 12". But I remember John Vincent playing an extended version with a very long intro, so I suppose that fits.

No NOT as new releases, as Northern Soul records at Northern Soul nights a few years after their release. Don't know if they were played there as new releases, my mum wouldn't have let me go that far on my own when they were first released (1975?)

It was a major part of my life for 25+ years - music, collecting, travelling, dancing, DJing , gear, promoting, bootlegging , tax evasion the whole nine yards. It cost me more money, jobs etc than I can remember and I don't regret it one bit (well passing up the Nomads for £45.00 in 1983 maybe, and then having to pay £600 for it 15 years later). Now, however, all I have left are the records (which I play daily still), and the occasional foray on here. I don't miss the rest of it at all. Times and perspectives change. Phil

Only to people still in touch with or actively involved in the scene. You play most Joe Public of a certain age "Right Back Where We Started From" and Drizabone, guess which one they'll say is Northern Soul?

I agree entirely. A Northern Soul classic .... oops duck...... incoming John Vincent used to play a very extended remix of 24 back in the day.

It did. One well know DJ (and now promoter) threatened to punch Levine's lights out when he found out it's true provenance. And as for the name. Not so unbelieveable at all. There was a semi-successful soul group from Baltimore called simply The Vandals, who released records on the Isley Bros T-Neck label. Their lead singer, Otis (Damon) Harris joined The Temptations in 1971 and was the lead singer on the hit "Papa Was A Rolling Stone".

And you and everybody else is perfectly entitled to an opinion. My opinion is that some of this is really quite good and I am looking forward to hearing the whole album. I personally haven't heard much of the nightmare stuff, and what I have heard doesn't do it for me. I love some of the Motorcity stuff, and some of the recent stuff over the last few years. The re-done version of David Ruffin - Hurt The One You Love is absolutely brilliant, together with the Tammi Lavette - 7 days. Phil

"But like Mel has been saying, they were only banded as Northern Soul "Monsters" "after" they became dance floor fillers at the clubs, nobody said "these are Northern Soul records so play them", or the like." Maybe those particular exapmples I've cited were but take a look back at the magazines and see the ads for new "Northern Soul" releases It is only recently (and then exceptions are made when certain members of the Soul Police allow) that it has been felt that Northern Soul means OLD. It doesn't. Right through this scene from its very inception new release records have been played alongside old classics. The sound and the beat makes it Northern Soul NOT the age of the recording, or whether it was recorded in a professional studio or somebody's shed. That's all irrelevant. Fair enough, but still find fun in the oldies /newies debate But again the same thing applies whatever the age, they become classics because people like them & so they get played. People like them because they get played In my opinion people have got themselves all flustered over these particular recordings simply because of the name Levine being attached to them. The very mention of Levine gets people worked up. Look at the number of postings and views on every topic he's mentioned in - I rest my case. Look at the example of the, now infamous, Four Vandals record. When it was percieved to be 30 odd years old it was Northern Soul. Once Levine's involvement was revealed it was all of a sudden crap. Disagree Phil, as i said in an earlier post, people are just commenting on the music. & as for the now infamous Four Vandals record, i think that is more likely what IL & friends would like us to believe. I remember a friend playing it to me & my reaction was "It's not terrible, but it dosen't sound right somehow ? sounds like it was made yesterday" & i have yet to meet anyone, then or now who has not said something similar. The well known collectors and DJ's on the scene who paid big money and played it when it first came over from America didn't think it sounded dodgy I 've listened to all the tracks on the net from this album that are on the net now and I would say that yes, they are Northern Soul. There are reminiscences of Northern tracks we all know in most of them. But that's only to be expected, that's where the guy drew all his influences from. And as for synthesizers? I didn't hear a single one. Samples maybe, but samples of real instruments played by real musicians. But that's totally different to a synthesizer. And there is definitely not a drum machine to be heard anywhere. I'm sorry Phil but if that is the case i applaud that drummer because he does a mega impression of a drum machine loop ! No he doesn't. Someone has done a good job of sampling him and then using the sample creatively. But he's a real drummer NOT a drum machine As far as I'm concerned if you don't like it, don't buy it. I for one will buy a copy when it comes out, and I'm sure many others will. And who knows, maybe one day some of these recordings will be played at a Northern Soul venue. I for one don't see why not. That's my two pennorth anyway. Phil Well good luck to you Phil, if you like it that's all that really matters Just in the same way as we that don't won't buy it. & i would hope you understand our opinions are based on what we have heard & nothing else, & we have just as much right to it as those who disagree with us. It just seems to me that where IL is concerened if you say you don't like what he has made his fans imediatley cry out "personal attack" People can like or dislike whatever they want. That's their prerogative. But it's not just a case of people saying that is it? It's the old let's slag off Levine routine by quite a few too

A prime illustration of the difference between a simply NORTHERN soul fan and a Northern and Rare Soul fan and collector. My wife -- Northern Soul fan through & through. Loves to dance, loves the music etc. I'm in the process of sorting through my records to sell. Doubles, triples etc etc. Anywaty I'm playing Lester Tipton on La Beat and my missus says that's a bit crackly are you getting rid of that one. Is it worth anything, would anyb ody buy it? I'm like people would bite my hand off for it. So she says well you should sell it then because mine's in much better condition and it plays with no noise at all. I tell her but yours is on Grapevine. And she says so what? It sounds much better than yours and the label looks much nicer. Quad Erat Demonstrandum Phil

As I have stated earlier it depends what your definition of Northern Soul is. As you have stated your definition is "to your mind" your definition. It's maybe not shared by the majority. Your definition stated in your first paragraph has a certain nostalgia about it, but it's far removed from the reality. Practically all of the records that you no doubt love and class as Northern Soul were made with one aim in mind - to sell records and therefore make money. I am not saying that they were not made with vibrancy, energy and enthusuasm - they undoubtedly were. But that vibrancy energy and enthusiasm was because they had, in some cases, dreams of stardom but in a lot of cases they just wanted to sell records and make a little money. Do you think that the people who made these records had the amibition of selling no records only to be looked upon findle 40 years later by a load of 30-60 year olds in the UK? I'm sure they enjoy the attention now, of course they do. It must be great being given respect for something you did 40 years ago that failed,. but I thinkm given the choice they would have much rather benn the next Marvin or Diana, than go back to the factory or wherever. What is the difference between a tailor-made cash-in Motown soundalike made in 1967 and a 2007 recording inspired by the Northern Soul scene? What's the difference then between that and a tailor-made soul record made in the 1970's to cash-in on the burgeoning Northern Soul scene? The Northern Soul scene, although popular all over the globe these days, could only ever have been invented in Britain where we celebrate failure Also, I think you look back upon the roots of some of these records with rose tinted glasses. "music that was lost from the mainstream" - what on earth does that mean? It means it didn't sell enough records. NOT that they didn't WANT to sell millions of copies. Anyway some off the records played on the scene sold very, very healthy numbers, so that puts paid to that part of the definition. Of course Ian Levine wants to make money out of his recordings (he'd be a fool if he didn't), but then so has every record producer who's ever made a record. And you say that you prefer Levine's work with Take That? No Northern Soul inspiration on any of those recordings now was there? In fact if you take that (no pun intended) a step further. How would you have felt if Take That had had a massive Levine produced hit with a reworking of a Northern Soul Classic? Or if their album had benn called Northernsoul 1994? I think, with respect, that you like many others are confusing the Northern Soul scene with the Rare Soul collecting scene. They are not the same. Phil

How much does the red label original go for? I have one available. Cheers Phil

I think that gets to the real crux of the matter. It's not whether or not we actually like the music Ian Levine has produced in itself, it's whether Ian has the God given RIGHT to call what he has done "Northern Soul", when (as far as I know) the term is one decided collectively, NOT "imposed from above", whether by Ian Levine or anyone else. Who are the people who decide collectively? A small bunch of collectors or the general public? What gives someone the right to be able to join the decison making collective? Because many of us are indeed "fifty something" (yeah, like Ian Levine is Peter Pan!) some of us remember the times when UK record companies, in their attempts to impose some of their more dodgy tailor-mades off as "genuine Northern Soul" onto both us and the pop-buying public alike, debased and diluted the scene and did untold damage to both it's Soul credibility and genuine sense of unity. And some of those who were brought onto the scene by these crass marketing attempts are now stalwarts of the scene are they not? Indeed, if the UK Rare Soul scene has any unique and redeeming feature at all it is that it remains a "collective" endeavour fiercely resistant to undue influence from the record company's marketing men, and yes it can occasionally appear insular because of it. Better that than falling prey to the cynical manipulations of the music industry however, because we all know what a disaster that can be for musical quality - which is exactly why the Northern Scene "opted out" of mainstream pop in the first place! And that's the crux of it. You're confusing the RARE soul scene with the NORTHERN soul scene. The RARE soul scene is mostly about chin stroking collectors (I should know I'm one of 'em), and the NORTHERN scene was always about the music, the music and nothing but the music. The Northern and Rare soul scenes have been uncomfortable bedfellows for many a decade. The Northen Soul scene is about people going out and listening and dancing to the music that they like, and maybe buy a few tunes evrey now and then and don't care if it's on bootleg, pressing or CD or MP3. Don't care who sings it, produces it oer whatever. They just care if they like it. Phil