Hi everybody -

i just posted a short mix of 5 of the tracks I am producing, sort of mid 70's east coast style. I need your help with something (only if you like sort of hi hat based 70's style grooves). Can you live with instrumentals, or do you like both instrumental and vocals? I am thinking of releasing these as instrumental only and seeing if they get any attention. If they do, would create the vocal version and alternative mixes etc for later release.....let me know. And what style would you call something like this?

https://soundcloud.com/55motown/make-five-pre-release-teaser-1

Edited October 13, 201113 yr by Carl Dixon

Disco.........& I mean that in the best way. Would prefer a good soulful vocal on top personally & a 12 inch mix with a seven inch or radio edit on the reverse.....if you did a 12 you could have the instrumental & radio edit on the flip.

Best Russ

Thanks Russ. Grand scheme. It's all about the money/investment and marketing. I figure get a buzz with the digital then exploit with the vinyl as already established if that makes sense. I think a vocal is the way to go. I want a short vocal track reminiscent of the lengths you would get about 1976/77. If I had the money....I would create a 60's version too. Sounds a little ambitious, but the conversion from one style to another is quite easy if you get the melody, backing vocals and groove right. Just imagine Uriel Jones/James Jamerson on the one hand, and Earl Young/ Ronnie Baker or Jimmie Williams on the other - sorted.

Edited October 13, 201113 yr by Carl Dixon

Carl have a listen to Ian's Mastercuts show first track particularly.....has a similar feel.......its in the audio section.

Russ

Russ...now there's the expert! He is extremely constructive with what he says and does. A real professional. He has opened my eyes a little with regards to the future. He sees things from a modern perspective and how things from the past were not necessarily for example, as good as something mixed today. I hope I said that OK Ian, and I am not after a beer.....

Hi everybody -

i just posted a short mix of 5 of the tracks I am producing, sort of mid 70's east coast style. I need your help with something (only if you like sort of hi hat based 70's style grooves). Can you live with instrumentals, or do you like both instrumental and vocals? I am thinking of releasing these as instrumental only and seeing if they get any attention. If they do, would create the vocal version and alternative mixes etc for later release.....let me know. And what style would you call something like this?

https://soundcloud.com/55motown/make-five-pre-release-teaser-1

Those are really really nice Carl They've got a definite Salsoul/Philly thing going on. I'd like to hear the full versions if possible. Would you trust me with 'em as I have a couple of possible ideas that may be worth messing around with and which would sort out the vocalist issue?

One thing which occurred to me was that I have all the First Choice Philly Groove full acappellas which I can clear immediately and which I think could work like a dream with those tracks. So imagine having a Rochelle Flemming lead vocal over those tracks! If anything comes out of it I can get Moulton to do a mix too!

It actually sounds like a really viable project mate because this could also cross over to the young Disco Diggers and Re-Edit crowds. Also January/February 2012 would be a good time to release since that's when the Philadelphia International 40th Anniversary releases will be coming out so hopefully there could be a lot of interest in some new Philly stuff coming through too. You could also attach "Soul Recession" to the package. It sounds like there's a potential album right there mate.

People love GREAT Philly records when they work properly. The stuff you're doing now isn't a million miles away from this beauty.....

So let me get you the acappellas and see if anything works. How's that sound Carl?

Ian D

Edited October 15, 201113 yr by Ian Dewhirst

Carl have a listen to Ian's Mastercuts show first track particularly.....has a similar feel.......its in the audio section.

Russ

LOL, that is one monster re-edit Russ. Pinky Velasquez. I'm coming to the conclusion that the 70's was the pinnacle for full orchestral arrangements and Barry White was pretty much one of the masters of string arranging. Those records really resonate with audiences too because synth strings still sound crappy!

When you hear that edit over a big system it just destroys people. Never bothered with it first time around because that Barry White/Love Unlimited Orchestra stuff was considered to be too commercial and it sounded a bit corny next to some of the more radical stuff coming out at the time. Play it now and it'll fill the floor some 35 years later. Damn right too!

Ian D

Ian,

The Philly 40th Anniversary stuff? Anything unreleased in amongst it. I too am working on a Philly project so would appreciate being kept in the loop if there are any surprises amongst it all.

Carl,

Vocals for sure Mate. Gamble and Huff were great but when coupled with Teddy they were stoooopendous!

Regards,

Dave

Russ...now there's the expert! He is extremely constructive with what he says and does. A real professional. He has opened my eyes a little with regards to the future. He sees things from a modern perspective and how things from the past were not necessarily for example, as good as something mixed today. I hope I said that OK Ian, and I am not after a beer.....

Actually I'm after a beer, even after the excesses of last night - a good case in point actually watching a full dance floor hearing Onur Engin's 8.00 re-edit of the Jackson's "Show You The Way To Go" for the first time. A monster record and so much tougher for today's dance floors with Onur's edit. Even Gamble & Huff had to agree so that's good enough for me! The point of the mixing is really relevent in this day and age as some of the older mixes sound badly dated when played alongside later productions. The re-edit culture has now sorted that out thank God!

Ian D

Ian,

The Philly 40th Anniversary stuff? Anything unreleased in amongst it. I too am working on a Philly project so would appreciate being kept in the loop if there are any surprises amongst it all.

Carl,

Vocals for sure Mate. Gamble and Huff were great but when coupled with Teddy they were stoooopendous!

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

I spoke to Kev at length about this last night and I have a couple of projects in hand which you could probably contribute too - especially in terms of expertise and memorabilia. PM me your number and let's have a natter.

Best,

Ian

Thats nice, everyone happy, I'm glad my perception was on the mark. 'Moores' waddaya doin on the 'dark side', get back were ya belong .

Best Russ

Serious question - what is the difference between a re edit & a re mix ???.

Best Russ

Serious question - what is the difference between a re edit & a re mix ???.

Best Russ

A remix is where you have access to the original multitrack and thus you have a lot more flexibility with altering instruments or removing them completely in many cases. But this is expensive these days and almost economically unviable.

A re-edit is basically when you only have the original song file to work with and you have to use your ingenuity to re-arrange the existing elements. Today's technology also means that many re-edits are virtually remixes except without having to resort to using original tapes and expensive studios.

Even I got confused occasionally though. There's some pretty radical re-edits out there which would be called remixes in times gone by.....

Ian D

Thank you.

Russ

'Moores' waddaya doin on the 'dark side', get back were ya belong .

Best Russ

:D

Got lost along the way?

You gonna make BOS next Sat? There'll be a few of us there.

Regards,

Dave

Thanks everybody,

One thing I must mention with these demos, and it may be the kiss of death (or the icing on the cake)....these songs and the production are UK based. There are no Philly/West coast elements in there at all! I am on keys, some guitar, tambourine, it is a UK drummer (Manchester 80's group called 'The Clouds' who have just recently had a couple of gigs in London/Manchester) on a modern electronic drum kit, and all tracks will eventually have real bass guitar from a genius bass player who can and does play like the best soulful players we hear on those classic cuts from the 60's/70's....! The songs were authored by myself, with two of them being co writes with the drummer/bass player. At this stage they are nowhere near being complete with respect to guitar work, arrangments etc. But...........the notion of sounding nearly as good as say Philly or Salsoul...is extremely interesting. I base my style around those dynamics from Philly 69/79, with strtings around how I think Thom Bell/Bobby Martin/Richard Rome and even Gene Page/Barry White may arrange, how Vince Montana may play on vibes, Bobby Eli on guitar, Earl Young on drums etc. I did ask around if anybody was interested in contributing to the songs for a flat fee musically and no writing credit, but there was only one taker Stateside. I still may take that up at some stage to reduce the electronic elements in the productions as there are many despite the tracks sounding analogue and organic. The main track for how I wish my guitar work to sound similar to was called 'Satin Soul' by Barry White ( not the Gene Page version). So the style is a mixture of elements, plus my arranging and drum guidance.

Ian, I will pm you after my 55 hour gruelling shift at a satellite broadcaster! Maybe we can meet up in London or something and discuss. You know my reservations and you are further down the line with all this than me. Rochelle Flemming is a friend on Facebook! Why not use the real deal.........I would also keep Soul Recession away from this project. They are not connected in any way, unless of course, some investor wants to produce studio cuts of the songs etc and take them to another level...'cause I can't afford to ha ha....

Edited October 16, 201113 yr by Carl Dixon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvibfdHErmY

I may be way off the mark but I'm Loving this tune at the moment , had it as new 77 I think but to be honest wouldn't admit to liking it as it was deemed a bit twee then , just love the arrangement on this.

Cheers

Swifty

Thanks for the comments everybody...

Ian, my shift is just about to end, and have had time to digest a few of the comments on here including your complimentary ones etc.

This is the position of the songs/recordings right now. The tracks are incomplete - guitar, bass and sweetening to do. Melody wise, they are nearlyt there. There is a singer lined up for the tracks for lead vocals and part backing when I decide to record. There will be a number of mixes all being well. The songs have been composed without the notion of anybody elses sampled recordings to be included on the tracks for many reasons. One being I consider myself a song writer and would prefer my songs have a chance to be an entity on their own and be acknowleged as new songs/releases without the reference to sombody elses melody/lyrics, as I beleive they would become co writers and expect a split, which is extgremely complicated. Plus, I feel my songs do not need the added virtue of something that was possibley used 30 years ago to help my songs along. That does not mean I would not consider writing something specifically for that market in the future where I have not made committments with other co writers and singers. It's all about respect for the intelectual property right and performance on the recorded work, not money to me. I can see great potential for new songs/recordings to do the sampled thing, but as I have access to many singers, including all those on my Facebook page, I can easily acquire new vocals that I would control and pay for on my selected releases. The other thing is, I would like to have possible cover versions done of my songs where somebody else invests in the recording of the song and management of the release and get a hit - that way, I would pick up my song writing residuals and create more demos etc.

For me, song writing is about melody, chords and lyrics. The format they are released on is academic to me. If people wanted the songs on sellotape, fine, and the technology of today? Out of this world - different mixes and variations of the recordings, like movements in classical music......

Edited October 18, 201113 yr by Carl Dixon

Thanks for the comments everybody...

Ian, my shift is just about to end, and have had time to digest a few of the comments on here including your complimentary ones etc.

This is the position of the songs/recordings right now. The tracks are incomplete - guitar, bass and sweetening to do. Melody wise, they are nearlyt there. There is a singer lined up for the tracks for lead vocals and part backing when I decide to record. There will be a number of mixes all being well. The songs have been composed without the notion of anybody elses sampled recordings to be included on the tracks for many reasons. One being I consider myself a song writer and would prefer my songs have a chance to be an entity on their own and be acknowleged as new songs/releases without the reference to sombody elses melody/lyrics, as I beleive they would become co writers and expect a split, which is extgremely complicated. Plus, I feel my songs do not need the added virtue of something that was possibley used 30 years ago to help my songs along. That does not mean I would not consider writing something specifically for that market in the future where I have not made committments with other co writers and singers. It's all about respect for the intelectual property right and performance on the recorded work, not money to me. I can see great potential for new songs/recordings to do the sampled thing, but as I have access to many singers, including all those on my Facebook page, I can easily acquire new vocals that I would control and pay for on my selected releases. The other thing is, I would like to have possible cover versions done of my songs where somebody else invests in the recording of the song and management of the release and get a hit - that way, I would pick up my song writing residuals and create more demos etc.

Fair dos Carl. I thought you had a problem with funding any vocal sessions so my suggestion of possibly using some 40 year old acappellas was purely based on a quick cheap possible solution, that's all. I take your point entirely about wanting to write the song (although in 90% of cases I don't advise it because many people aren't gifted songwriters and only want the publishing income on what could be a mediocre song). As per usual, best of luck mate.

I still wouldn't mind hearing the full instrumentals though. The bits I heard sounded great.......

Ian D

Well, finally after 3 years my tracks are released today. The aggregators are working to get them into the digital stores soonest, but iTunes already have them! I have therefore decided to make the Youtube and Soundcloud preview files available now. I know these are nothing like Detroit soul or Northern Soul, nevertheless they have a retro feel etc with my quest and passion for this type of music......here is the blurb I have written for posting everywhere etc;

Just a quick advisory about my new album release called 'Make Five' by the artist name 'Bandtraxs'. This has been a labour of love since 2009 writing five new instrumental songs and producing them with a retro disco feel. The title track 'Make Five' and writing five new songs in this style was the original concept for the material, the name being a play on words with a song called 'Take Five'. The difference being the number of songs rather than the beats per bar in the groove!

In effect these are elaborate demos with a view to one day maybe recording a full orchestra for real, plus of course write lyrics and produce vocal versions in the future. The productions on the 'Make Five' album are styled in such a way that they are evocative of the mid 1970's disco era and especially those instrumentals by the likes of 'Love Unlimited' or 'MFSB'. Clearly, these tracks are nowhere near the high quality output these orchestras released, as I believe they are in a league of their own with their differing styles and can never be surpassed. Nevertheless, my endeavors here are to write and be creative producing interesting melodies, counter melodies and instrumentation that it reminiscent of an influential era in popular music.

You may have noticed that there are two mixes of each song to enjoy. The alternate mix is simply missing a few instruments here and there, which gives the groove a slightly different dynamic. Using technology of the day, I hope I have created something of worth and enjoyable to the listener, retro in style and showcasing my passion for this music.

Below are the Soundcloud and YouTube links for the main mixes. Feel free to listen and enjoy. If you are curious about the songs, please ask. There is normally a story behind each of my compositions and I would be happy to engage. Shortly they will be for sale on CD Baby, Amazon, iTunes (available now) and all streaming solutions like Spotify etc.

Ultimately of course, I would like airplay and sales to help finance my involvement in making this music. Therefore I ask on air talent to consider playing any of the tracks within their programming if they feel it appropriate. All songs will be registered with the song writing and label societies accordingly. Each track has its own ISRC number, which is the legal registration for the sound recording and label owner. If you know any talent that maybe interested in the songs please make them aware! Send me a private message if you air programming that would benefit from this style of music and I can send you Dropbox links.

SOUNDCLOUD links

Make five

https://soundcloud.com/55motown/make-five-by-bandtraxs/s-RYWEP

Side tracked

https://soundcloud.com/55motown/side-tracked-by-bandtraxs/s-G3Zki

Double up

https://soundcloud.com/55motown/double-by-bandtraxs/s-T8tMb

A little of the big stuff

https://soundcloud.com/55motown/a-little-of-the-big-stuff-by/s-Mj8D2

Walk away the winner

https://soundcloud.com/55motown/walk-away-the-winner-by/s-eSzOT

YOUTUBE links

Make five

https://youtu.be/oDBggfmMZCg

Side tracked

https://youtu.be/RbjFLZebgUU

Double up

https://youtu.be/FgMZt2JuqFc

A little of the big stuff

https://youtu.be/FLbvmCdIsTM

Walk away the winner

https://youtu.be/BwGlreQX728

Thank you

Carl Dixon

Ps forgive the cheesy sleeve art - I was in a hurry! And yes the disco ball photo came from a Northern Soul gig...which shall remain nameless lol!

Also the tracks are available now on CD Baby:

https://www.cdbaby.com/cd/bandtraxs

Edited March 1, 201312 yr by Carl Dixon