On this issue I believe each to their own. Some people like only Northern and some people only Modern Soul and some of us such as myself love Soul music in its entirety. I personally dont care what music someone likes and would be reluctant to start slagging off someones musical preferences. However, I do take issue when some people say that Modern Soul is not Soul. This debate usually occurs from the perspective of white Europeans that have adopted the discarded Soul sounds of black america and formed for themselves a distinct musical subculture that has within it several subgenres. On the one hand there are the Northern purists arguing that anything post 1969 cannot be considered Soul music and you have some Modern fans who loathe the uncouth and raw production styles of the 1960's.
However, most modern soul enthusiasts embrace 6ts soul as it was this music that kindled their love of black american music in the first place.
The main problem I have with this debate is that we never hear or have heard the opinions of those at the centre of it; that is the artists and the producers. Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield, The O'Jays, Little Anthony, Willie Mitchell, Garland Green, Frank Wilson, Lou Rawls, Terry Callier etc. etc. have never been known to sit on internet forums discussing the validity and "soulfulness" of their musical output. Why? Fair enough smart arses I know some of them are dead. However, the main reason the remaining artists of the 6ts, 7ts, 8ts, dont descend into this debate is that for them there is no dispute. When Marvin Gaye recorded "Love Starved Heart" he just sang his fuckin heart out as he did in the 7ts and 8ts. He wasn't thinking "this one is for the "northern" crowd" he simply sang from the depth of his being. When he later recorded the unreleased Modern classic "Where are we going?" or the Soulful disco hit "Got to Give it up", he wasnt shunned by his contemporaries for going all "disco". Carl Carlton and Garland Green didn't fall out over the fact that Carl was more of a "northern" fan and thought that Marvin had sold out, whereas Garland loved "modern" soul and thought Carl was a closed minded c*** and he would shun him at future weekenders by staying primarily in the "modern" room. These debates and grievances never occured within the ranks of Soul music's finest for the simple reason that all of the Soul artists that recorded in the 1960's simply adopted the advances in music technology and production techniques during the 1970's. Soul music simply evolved. There were wasnt a single soul artist or production studio during the 7ts that eschewed the advances within music technology and production. True there was some dreadful overly produced disco muck released but then the 6ts had its muck as well as its glories. So fair enough if you dont like 6ts Soul, or 7ts Soul, or 8ts or the new independent Soul artists that is your perogative and anyone who holds it against you in my opinion needs to develop tolerance. On the other hand 6ts purists dont have the authority to claim that modern soul isnt soul. They may not like it but they dont have the right to usurp the term "soul" from the very artists that created it and developed it. White Europeans do not have the right to redefine and recalssify a central component of black american culture. In my opinion it is a form of cultural imperialism. Northern, Modern and Crossover are all labels invented by us on the UK- Euro soul underground to help us distinguish different periods and styles within Soul music and each style has as a relevant a place within Soul music as the other. It is the heighest form of arrogance to dismiss 7ts, 8ts and nu real indie soul (not that craig david or destinys child muck or overly produced r&b, check out Soulbrother records for a few good compilations of Nu indie Soul) as not qualifying as Soul. You may not like it but as a white bloke living in Dublin, London or Manchester you dont really have a right to redefine the music of black african-american culture. Can you just imagine the audacity of some white european telling Curtis Mayfield which of his records were soul and which werent. It would be akin to Winston Churchill telling Mahatma Gandhi he wasn't Indian enough.
We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as foes.
John May 1 post
Ernie Andrews 1 post
Bazza 1 post
Zed1 1 post
On this issue I believe each to their own. Some people like only Northern and some people only Modern Soul and some of us such as myself love Soul music in its entirety. I personally dont care what music someone likes and would be reluctant to start slagging off someones musical preferences. However, I do take issue when some people say that Modern Soul is not Soul. This debate usually occurs from the perspective of white Europeans that have adopted the discarded Soul sounds of black america and formed for themselves a distinct musical subculture that has within it several subgenres. On the one hand there are the Northern purists arguing that anything post 1969 cannot be considered Soul music and you have some Modern fans who loathe the uncouth and raw production styles of the 1960's.
However, most modern soul enthusiasts embrace 6ts soul as it was this music that kindled their love of black american music in the first place.
The main problem I have with this debate is that we never hear or have heard the opinions of those at the centre of it; that is the artists and the producers. Marvin Gaye, Curtis Mayfield, The O'Jays, Little Anthony, Willie Mitchell, Garland Green, Frank Wilson, Lou Rawls, Terry Callier etc. etc. have never been known to sit on internet forums discussing the validity and "soulfulness" of their musical output. Why? Fair enough smart arses I know some of them are dead. However, the main reason the remaining artists of the 6ts, 7ts, 8ts, dont descend into this debate is that for them there is no dispute. When Marvin Gaye recorded "Love Starved Heart" he just sang his fuckin heart out as he did in the 7ts and 8ts. He wasn't thinking "this one is for the "northern" crowd" he simply sang from the depth of his being. When he later recorded the unreleased Modern classic "Where are we going?" or the Soulful disco hit "Got to Give it up", he wasnt shunned by his contemporaries for going all "disco". Carl Carlton and Garland Green didn't fall out over the fact that Carl was more of a "northern" fan and thought that Marvin had sold out, whereas Garland loved "modern" soul and thought Carl was a closed minded c*** and he would shun him at future weekenders by staying primarily in the "modern" room. These debates and grievances never occured within the ranks of Soul music's finest for the simple reason that all of the Soul artists that recorded in the 1960's simply adopted the advances in music technology and production techniques during the 1970's. Soul music simply evolved. There were wasnt a single soul artist or production studio during the 7ts that eschewed the advances within music technology and production. True there was some dreadful overly produced disco muck released but then the 6ts had its muck as well as its glories. So fair enough if you dont like 6ts Soul, or 7ts Soul, or 8ts or the new independent Soul artists that is your perogative and anyone who holds it against you in my opinion needs to develop tolerance. On the other hand 6ts purists dont have the authority to claim that modern soul isnt soul. They may not like it but they dont have the right to usurp the term "soul" from the very artists that created it and developed it. White Europeans do not have the right to redefine and recalssify a central component of black american culture. In my opinion it is a form of cultural imperialism. Northern, Modern and Crossover are all labels invented by us on the UK- Euro soul underground to help us distinguish different periods and styles within Soul music and each style has as a relevant a place within Soul music as the other. It is the heighest form of arrogance to dismiss 7ts, 8ts and nu real indie soul (not that craig david or destinys child muck or overly produced r&b, check out Soulbrother records for a few good compilations of Nu indie Soul) as not qualifying as Soul. You may not like it but as a white bloke living in Dublin, London or Manchester you dont really have a right to redefine the music of black african-american culture. Can you just imagine the audacity of some white european telling Curtis Mayfield which of his records were soul and which werent. It would be akin to Winston Churchill telling Mahatma Gandhi he wasn't Indian enough.
We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as foes.
(Martin Luther King Jr.)