(Sorry I put this in "Media" instead of "All About Soul" - grateful if one of the Admins can move it for me!)

When EMI were distributing Motown records on Stateside (Oct '63 thru March '65) - was that the only distribution deal in the world.

e.g. If I had gone into a French record shop and ordered a copy of Heatwave by Martha & the Vandella's would I have got the Stateside record with English label and sleeve.

If so which countries did Motown supply into direct and which via EMI/Stateside??

MB

Edited December 14, 200618 yr by MBarrett

(Sorry I put this in "Media" instead of "All About Soul" - grateful if one of the Admins can move it for me!)

When EMI were distributing Motown records on Stateside (Oct '63 thru March '65) - was that the only distribution deal in the world.

e.g. If I had gone into a French record shop and ordered a copy of Heatwave by Martha & the Vandella's would I have got the Stateside record with English label and sleeve.

If so which countries did Motown supply into direct and which via EMI/Stateside??

MB

If you had gone into a French record shop for 'Heatwave' in 1963, you would probably have got it on a French Columbia EP. The French didn't have a Stateside label at that point. And, of course, they preferred EPs to singles.

I don't think that EMI represented Motown absolutely everywhere during this period, of course - although I could be wrong about that. I'm just mentioning a few countries that I know of - but EMI and its affiliates did distribute Motown quite extensively throughout the world beyond North America. In Holland, during the 'Stateside' era, EMI Bovema had a very nice orange and black 'Motown' label with a scaled-down version of the famous 'Map' design at the top. In Australia (and, I think, New Zealand) Stateside-era Motown's came out on 'His Master's Voice' (I have 'When The Lovelight Starts Shining Thru' His Eyes" and "Workout Stevie Workout"). While in South Africa, there WAS a Stateside label from quite early on - and quite a few TMG's came out on it there (I have quite a few - "Shotgun", "Don't Look Back" and "Ain't Too Proud To Beg" readily spring to mind).

Hope this helps a bit...

TONE

Pre Tamla Motown and Statesides are even more intriguing. How about Please Mr Postman on Aussie Top Rank!

Pre Tamla Motown and Statesides are even more intriguing. How about Please Mr Postman on Aussie Top Rank!

Aussie deal was a really strange one. I have Supremes "Lovelight Starts Shining etc" and others on Oz HMV!

Aussie 'Tamla Motown' issued quite a few things that didn't come out over here on 45.

Isley Bros "All Because I Love You,

Willie Hutch "Talk To Me",

Martha & The Vandellas "Heartless / Taking My Love " immediately spring to mind.... but I have a few others.

The OZ TM EP's are also particularly nice.

All on the familiar Black & Silver livery.

Not seen the Marvelettes on Top Rank tho' Pete!

Sean

How about Please Mr Postman on Aussie Top Rank!

...I'd like v. much to see and own that.

Funnily enough I just bought a copy of Mr. Chandler's "Duke Of Earl" on Aussie Top Rank - which, I think, is much more aesthetically pleasing than having in on UK Columbia, and which it would have come out on here had EMI not had that short spell between closing TR and starting Stateside, where Vee Jay was coming out on Columbia and labels like Laurie and Scepter were coming through HMV...

TONE

(Sorry I put this in "Media" instead of "All About Soul" - grateful if one of the Admins can move it for me!)

When EMI were distributing Motown records on Stateside (Oct '63 thru March '65) - was that the only distribution deal in the world.

e.g. If I had gone into a French record shop and ordered a copy of Heatwave by Martha & the Vandella's would I have got the Stateside record with English label and sleeve.

If so which countries did Motown supply into direct and which via EMI/Stateside??

MB

If you pop into the British Library on Euston Road in London, I think you'll find a collection of index cards with all the information on that you request.....I believe that there are even the distribution details for the quantity for each record pressed and sent out to the various licensed territories - plus the pressing plant details....I could be wrong - but this rings a bell....could be worth dropping the BL a line with your enquiry. Jo

I really appreciate your help in providing this information.

It certainly proves that in those early days there were a number of different arrangements/deals going on until it all started to settle down more . . . . 1965 on.

Very interesting to know that EMI were using the Stateside label in some countries but not others.

But I would NEVER have guessed that Top Rank had got in on the act. I hope I'm not libelling them but I always thought of them as a bit of a down market, budget label.

Vinylvixen - I'm intrigued by your reference to information at the British Library. Is this part of some EMI company archives that have been lodged with the BL?

Thanks again

MB

Worth mentioning that EMI did eventually start a Statside label in Holland, but I think it didn't get upnder way until Motown had already been established as a logo there.

I'm putting the finishing touches to sorting out my tunes for tonight, but if I get a chance tomorrow I'll try to post up a South Afican Stateside of a TMG release....

TONE

Vinylvixen - I'm intrigued by your reference to information at the British Library. Is this part of some EMI company archives that have been lodged with the BL?

I think it is. There is certainly information on Stateside and I could stand corrected, but I think the original Stateside artwork is there as well - the pen and ink design for the logo....a couple of different designs were submitted. Give them a whirl - they're very helpful. Jo

As promised, a South African 'Motown Stateside' for you:

...and an Australian one:

...Enjoy!

TONE

But I would NEVER have guessed that Top Rank had got in on the act. I hope I'm not libelling them but I always thought of them as a bit of a down market, budget label.

You are definitely doing them a diservice - Top Rank was EMI's equivalent to London and although it did release a lot of UK pop, some of it's US output was fabulous, including Chuck Jackson, The Shirelles, The Paradons, The Flamingos, Jerry Butler and so on..

You are definitely doing them a diservice - Top Rank was EMI's equivalent to London and although it did release a lot of UK pop, some of it's US output was fabulous, including Chuck Jackson, The Shirelles, The Paradons, The Flamingos, Jerry Butler and so on..

.....Top Rank also had distribution as a label in the USA, around 1960, releasing material from artists such as Ted Taylor and Jack Scott, amongst others.

Yes, Pete's right. Forget the Craig Douglas, John Leyton and the other pop releases on the label. Other personal faves of the good soul (or soul related) UK Top Rank releases are:

THE PIPS: Every Beat Of My Heart

LEE DORSEY: Ya Ya

CHUCK JACKSON: I Don't Want To Cry

JOHNNY ADAMS & THE GONDOLIERS: Come On

LITTLE ANTHONY & THE IMPERIALS: Shimmy Shimmy Ko Ko Bop

THE PARADONS: Diamonds & Pearls

THE FLAMINGOS: I Only Have Eyes For You

THE SHIRELLES: Baby It's You

BIG JAY Mc NEELY: There Is Something On Your Mind

WILBERT HARRISON: Kansas City

I could go on for a long time! Speaking of which, I have New Zealand Top Rank releases of Soldier Boy (The Shirelles), Duke Of Earl (Gene Chandler), Nobody Loves Me Like You (The Flamingos) and both the Wilbert Harrison and Little Anthony singles mentioned above. The look lovely, espscially the last two which have square centres at an unusual angle! Will try post scans of some later.

Gene

You are definitely doing them a diservice - Top Rank was EMI's equivalent to London and although it did release a lot of UK pop, some of it's US output was fabulous, including Chuck Jackson, The Shirelles, The Paradons, The Flamingos, Jerry Butler and so on..

..And the man whose good tastes we have to respect in putting out a lot of the US stuff that came on Top Rank was none other than the "Hatchet Man" of TV's 'New Faces' (and a bloody great songwriter to boot) Tony Hatch, who was the label's US A & R man from 1958 to 1960.

There was a legit Top Rank label in Jamaica, too - I have Rosco Gordon's "Surely I Love You" on an original Ja. 1960 issue (some copies spell it 'Rasco' apparently - never seen one but I love the concept!)

TONE

...and I'd like to add a few more R & B/soul Top Rank gems to Gene's list, if I may:

LENNY MILES - Don't Believe Him Donna (from Scepter)

JIMMY REED - Baby What You Want Me To Do (Vee Jay)

WADE FLEMONS - several singles, including "Slow Motion", "Woops Now", and "What's Happening" (Vee Jay)

THE SHIRELLES - Mama Said (Scepter)

CHUCK JACKSON - The Breaking Point (Wand)

THE JARMELS - Little Lonely One (Laurie)

THE SHIRELLES - A Thing Of The Past (Scepter)

DEE CLARK - several singles including "Raindrops" and "Blues Get Off My Shoulder"/"Hey Little Girl" + and an LP, too! (Vee Jay)

ROSCO GORDON - No More Doggin'/Goin' Home (Vee Jay)

BIG BOB KORNEGAY - Your Line Was Busy (Jaro)

HUEY PIANO SMITH AND THE CLOWNS - Don't You Know Yockomo (Ace)

JERRY BUTLER - several singles including "He Will Break Your Heart", "Find Another Girl" and "I'm A Telling You" (Vee Jay)

TOMMY HUNT - The Door Is Open (Scepter)

...and there's more besides those, too...

...and if I may make a quick correction, Lee Dorsey's "Ya Ya" didn't come out over here on Top Rank - but its' follow-up "Do Re Mi" did!

TONE

PS - Here IS "Duke Of Earl" on Aussie Top Rank:

...and although it's nothing to do with Top Rank, here's another of my all-time faves on a 'down-under' pressing:

Nice looking label, W & G was the Antipodean outlet for quite a few US labels, ABC Paramount (obviously) being one!

Edited December 18, 200618 yr by TONY ROUNCE

And here are some nice New Zealand soul-related issues, bought for a fraction of their UK counterparts whilst on holiday there five years ago! These are only just some of the 160-odd 45s and 30-odd 78s brought back, mostly R&R and 60s pop.

I also had "What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted" by Jimmy Ruffin on green Stateside; unusual, considering that the Supremes single pictured here on Tamla Motown pre-dates this by a year, so why wasn't it on TM instead? Anyway, the Jimmy Ruffin 45 is now happily in the collection of Roger Stewart.

Also note the mis-credit on the Platters 45, as featuring "Tony Wilson" (should be Tony Williams!).

Edited December 18, 200618 yr by Gene-R

I also had "What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted" by Jimmy Ruffin on green Stateside; unusual, considering that the Supremes single pictured here on Tamla Motown pre-dates this by a year, so why wasn't it on TM instead?

Gene you are a man after my own heart, I love oddball pressings and you've got some corkers here....

Funny you should say that about Jimmy vs. the Supremes, though - Although I;ve yet to locate it in my 'mess', I'm pretty sure that my South African "Nothing But Heartaches" is on TM, yet the Jr. Walker "How Sweet It Is" and "Shotgun" and the Tempts "My Baby" and "Get Ready" that I have on SA are all on Stateside.

Here's a theory - maybe just Tamla and Motown came out on 'Tamla Motown' down under (in SA) while the other labels were considered to be a different kettle of fish - rather in the way that US Columbia came out on UK CBS here from 1963 onwards, while Okeh and Epic came out on UK Columbia up till 1968 - and thus came out not on the expected imprint? Just a theory, as I say, but a logical one...

TONE

PS: Talking of SA pressings, I was delighted to add a nice, NM tri-centre SA Scepter 45 of Dionne Warwick's original version of "Get Rid Of Him" to the collection over the weekend. Have a bit of sticker removal to do but I'll post it up as soon as it's 'presentable'. I may be wrong about this but I'm pretty sure it was not released on a US Scepter 45, just Dionne's 'Presenting' LP...

Fantastic Gene, could look at stuff like that all night. I once saw a fabulous Aussie Verve, orange label I think, was either Superiors or High Keyes...

And here's another one I forgot about..................until now!

As promised, a South African 'Motown Stateside' for you:

...and an Australian one:

...Enjoy!

TONE

Slightly off thread here I know Tone but seeing the South African Stateside record made me think of something a work colleague told me a while ago.

My friend is white and was born in SA. She is in her late 40's. She told me that she didn't see television shows that we were used to or hear 'chart' music much until she came to England in her late teens. This was because the Aparthide system really did go over the top on censorship in the 60s and 70s.

Interesting then that they allowed music by black artists to get into the shops!

Just thought I'd share this.

KTF.

Drew.

Edited December 18, 200618 yr by Drew3

...And here's that Dionne Warwick SA Scepter I mentioned earlier:

...Nice, innit? Love the fact that its in a Scepter bag, too....

TONE

And here are some nice New Zealand soul-related issues, bought for a fraction of their UK counterparts whilst on holiday there five years ago! These are only just some of the 160-odd 45s and 30-odd 78s brought back, mostly R&R and 60s pop.

I also had "What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted" by Jimmy Ruffin on green Stateside; unusual, considering that the Supremes single pictured here on Tamla Motown pre-dates this by a year, so why wasn't it on TM instead? Anyway, the Jimmy Ruffin 45 is now happily in the collection of Roger Stewart.

Also note the mis-credit on the Platters 45, as featuring "Tony Wilson" (should be Tony Williams!).

Gene, what an absolute pleasure to see your selection of labels/ releases The green Stateside and pink TM are a revelation....thank you Now this is what I call a good post.... Jo

Gene, what an absolute pleasure to see your selection of labels/ releases The green Stateside and pink TM are a revelation....thank you Now this is what I call a good post.... Jo

Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it

TONE

Slightly off thread here I know Tone but seeing the South African Stateside record made me think of something a work colleague told me a while ago.

My friend is white and was born in SA. She is in her late 40's. She told me that she didn't see television shows that we were used to or hear 'chart' music much until she came to England in her late teens. This was because the Aparthide system really did go over the top on censorship in the 60s and 70s.

Interesting then that they allowed music by black artists to get into the shops!

Just thought I'd share this.

KTF.

Drew.

I may be wrong about this (you can check with your friend) but I have a feeling that TV did not come to SA until the mid 60s anyway. But what your friend says was corroberated to me by Sharon Tandy a couple of years ago. She pretty much said that she didn't hear any soul music until she came to the UK in 1965, at least not knowingly.

TONE

Slightly off thread here I know Tone but seeing the South African Stateside record made me think of something a work colleague told me a while ago.

My friend is white and was born in SA. She is in her late 40's. She told me that she didn't see television shows that we were used to or hear 'chart' music much until she came to England in her late teens. This was because the Aparthide system really did go over the top on censorship in the 60s and 70s.

Interesting then that they allowed music by black artists to get into the shops!

Just thought I'd share this.

KTF.

Drew.

I wonder if soul records were made available ONLY to black audiences in South Africa? There would have been segregation until the end of the '80s, so that makes me think that the black population of South Africa may well have had their own records shops as, similarly, the white population could have.

Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it

TONE

Ssssh Tone! What will my wife say??

PS - The SA Dionne Warwick on Scepter looks well neat Tone! Uses a similar tri-centre style to what Japan was using on labels like Globe at the time.

Edited December 19, 200618 yr by Gene-R

Why don't you two just get a room and be done with it

TONE

Tony, you know my head is easily turned by good looking labels - and especially ones that I've never seen before

Keep 'em coming

Jo

Tony, you know my head is easily turned by good looking labels - and especially ones that I've never seen before

Keep 'em coming

Jo

OK then, here's a couple from the many original Jamaican issues of soul 45s in the Rounce archive:

... This is, of course a rocksteady record anyway but this is the original Jamaican issue of "Danny"s sole UK Deram/New Wave 45. The backing track, in case you're interested, was first used on Glen Adams' rocksteady cut of "Hey There Lonely Girl"...

...despite the fact that there's a US catalogue number quoted on the label, there was no US 45 issue of this "Part Two", mostly instrumental version to "Let's Get It On"...

...the Jamaicans had a Stateside label, too! I've got better examples but this one was the first to come to hand. Despite mentioning President on the label, this was actually licensed from Bang/Shout. BSBEB was on the latter in the USA and the W- matrix number appears on both the label and the deadwax...

...and finally, for now...

...a 'Fingerclicking'-era Stax 45 on a 'Blue' era design. Funnily enough I have earlier 'fingerclicking' era Stax 45 on Jamaican pressings, with the correct logo. This one also comes on a nice indigo 'blue' era label, with silver lettering...

...I'll stick up a few more later in the week, maybe.

TONE

Edited December 19, 200618 yr by TONY ROUNCE

...and while I'm doing Jamaican-only Soul 45s here's one of my favourites:

Unfortunately this copy, sold to me by some eBay clown in what was described as 'excellent' condition - that's 'excellent' as in 'been on the parcel shelf in the back of my car all through the summer' - is far too warped to play properly.

For anyone who doesn't know - and despite the erroneous 'Al Green' writer credit - it's a version of the Frank Howard record on Excello. It's a bit too slow to dance to, but Al sings it beautifully....

TONE

Really appreciate all this information you have provided. Some fascinating stuff in here.

Sorry for "showing my ignorance" about the Top Rank label. Those sort of "pop" names - Craig Douglas, John Leyton etc. are just the sort of names I used to associate with that label. Now I know better!!

Just to pursue the South African connection if anyone is interested. I would have thought it was quite a limited market. Our family struggled to afford a record player in the 1960's and we weren't badly off. It must have been much worse for the majority of the population of S.A.

But of particular interest is the "apartheid boycott" led by Dusty Springfield and other artists in 1964.

Here is a brief report from The Times newspaper:

MB

...There's a story, possibly apocrypahl, that when Status Quo were pilloried for playing Sun City in the late 80s, after the whole Artists United Against Apartheid thing had come to prominence, Francis Rossi shrugged it off by saying something along the lines of "doesn't apply to us, none of our fans are black anyway..."

I'd like to believe that isn't true, but given that it's a quote from "The Quo" who knows?

TONE

This was December of 1964.

Dusty would almost certainly have included Motown/other R & B covers in her stage act.

Possibly even the Searchers and Zombies to a lesser extent.