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Hi All....I think this is a great question, To be honest those people who have made money on the scene, are just the average people in all walks of society, who act on instinct when creating any work, they see an opening or as I would say a gap in service provision, and don't just think about what a good idea or wouldn't be nice if we had this? they act on the opportunity, and the secure knowledge that only 5% of the population, waits to be told or finds life easy working for others, rather then take on any risks, The most successful are those people who clearly had a understanding of business and the foresight to have a realistic business plan. Again a very high percentage of the population have poor husbandry skills and will plan no further than 5 weeks ahead, this is normal because the majority do it this way, To make a living from our scene has aways been that special touch that our scene has, a personal touch if you like, for example if you went to a big live concert, those people selling artifacts poster and so on mean nothing to us, they are just 1 of thousands of people that we will never meet, unlike our scene were everyone is include from the promoter the door staff the brothers & sisters the record dealers also the drug dealers, If you have been to see any act on the scene, you will notice that their performance is 100% more than average, this is because they are swept of their feet with and buy the scene, A good example was when the DELLS did Trentham Gardens, it was clear to me and Evey one including the band and DELLS that it was the best vibe they had got for many years, also the transparency I remember speaking to Tamiko Jones who was so over whelmed about the scene she just talked in depth for over 30 min before I could ask her a question? The record dealers on the scene have even got their followers and very loyal they are to, this is because they are very much a part of the scene, and what I like is they just expanded the way the scene run at the start, with most who attended taking a few records to show off, or sell, it's rare that there is an outward conflict with other dealers? To conclude those who have made a living like Ranking John Manship have done so at the price of giving a whopping big chunk into keeping the scene going, years ago I made money keeping the scene alive through out the night, however this way of making money, well for me had to many hard penalties to it, and money was not appreciated and wasted, so record selling is safe and integral, and I am glad that the scene has this provision, DAVE

Hi well you have hit the nail on the head however you have it the wrong way round, as there is more chance that a failed 70s Disco 45 being played, it is as clear as mud, the Northern Soul scene has been ripped apart by inferior Dance music, the best or most of the Best 70s records were payed under the banner as Northern? and the people who go on about CROSSOVER & MODERN SOUL have as I say destroyed the ambiance that Northern, For me it will be a Northern Scene that will always have the quality sound of the 60s if you look back at the 15 years of all music that was played in the USA UK & on the continent from 1956 yo 1971 and look back the last 15 years, the ever changing assortment of music progressed and most were aimed at the here and now, the Motown beat was even in the Pink Floyd records, DISCO never made it and as I say the best was called Northern, I love records like SUPERTIME so would young people so lets play them all again, I hated the crap Disco scene, and loved the Northern scene, why these DJs impose there stuff on others heave knows, reading SOULSOURCE and some of the threads, shows me again that many people have not had the opportunity of the authentic divers madness and contradiction of the scene DAVE

Ian as Pete S will tell you I like TOADY BOY am going through a real hard time, so much so I let a few of my POP demos go, the Thoughts of emily on a imiediate red A demo went to Mick, he also had Barry Ryann ELOISE DEMO, a great pop record to end the 60s and set a new standard for the 70s, I then shut the lid on him when he pulled out SPIRIT IN THE SKY DEMO, HURDY GURDY MAN PYE DEMO, AND THIS WHEELS ON FIRE BLANK, It was to painful, over he last 40 years or so, some of the junk shop finds and how cheap I let them go for I had HOLY HOLY & MEMORY/ PRETIEST STAR MERCURRY DEMOS FOR 25np, even Pete Smith has not had them?? thinking about it he has but not hat cheap, I am sure he also had Lisa Jane the Lower Third, which no one has had HI HO SILVER LINING DEMO, any wolves fans a must have for £110, very rare, by the way give my record of the day a spin please?

HI ALL I AM AWARE THIS WILL NOT PLEASE SOME, BUT i HAVE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT, IT WAS GREAT AT 17 YEARS & EVEN BETTER AT 60 YEARS, PLEASE LISTEN TO THIS CLASSIC CUT, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! PLEASE DAVE My copy value??aint bothard! https://youtu.be/OvvC4TiiRa4

HI Yep it is a joke! looking down our mans list, the last record ABC ROCK STEADY on the High Note label, in fact it's the labels very first release, The record is a load of S**t and he has priced it at £150. another JOKE? well maybe not maybe not, I really do not no the current value, I am tempted to say £35, However you never can tell, I actually got this the week it was released, it was one of my very first couple of REGGAE 45s back then this music, a new music from JA had not even got a name, as it was the dace name that stuck, the dance was from the Hips and properly executed made a 17 year old DAVE Grow? the dance later was call Welding a descriptive name for it, it was always dance to an uptempo bass but sweet rhythm, this sweetness come out of the late 66 RUM RYTHEM which was more meaty and had more pace to it than all the smooth vocal harmonizing of Rock Steady and you should never really play them side by side as it's Chalk & Cheese, This leads me to the B side of ABC Rock Steady, And as I say at 17 years old and to actually own one of not just an early Reggae Record, I can honestly state 100% this is Reggae at it's very best, very very best I am sure many collectors who did not hear this in context as I did, may have a better example, but check it out. and when you talk about Steggae Jeggae Reggi Reggay or Reggae mention the record SOUL DRUMS, AND LEAVE THE PUSSEY RECORDS TILL YOU GETBACK TO YOUR YARD So the joke is the bloke who lives in hope1 TO GET SOME CORN FOR DOPE & COKE! SO DONT BE SORE AT ME NO MORE, WHEN YOU ARE SLACK DON'T SMOKE CRACK! It's a KILLER, SO AM i, LATER BABYLONS DAVE

I should CO CO, The MAROON LABEL JOKER in the picture above is much rarer than the black label, if you want a Boot I say it the 2nd press, not seen many at all? but why has he got a picture of it in the 1st place? I tells you. DAVE

The NICE- AMERICA-IMIEDIATE RECORDS, Saw them at the MARQUEE, Doing this and stuff from the 5 Bridges, and I tell no lie, a HIPPIE throwing choppers and a axe at a Steinway?? was as say "FFAR OUTT MAN, PRETTY AMAZEING YEH MAN" "NEVER TRUST A HIPPY" Johnny Rotten 76, remember those Hippie Chicks with Afros walking down Ladbroke Road going to FINCHES on Portobello Road to watch the Fairport Convention? of course you don't DAVE

Hi All I was ;looking for a sound clip for this on YouTube, no luck, However it will be in many piles of 45s around and about, As a part of my collecting as you can imagine, includes my favorite Pop records from the late 60s and a few early ones also, but I try to get Demos if I can, one record has the best intro of them all (nearly). The theme tune from the classic The Good Bad & the Ugly - Hugo Montenegro + orchan ace record. But how many have played the B side? "there's got to be a better way" it's pure 60s and sounds great on my sound system? if any one can put a clip up for me? I really like this type of music sort of MOD style

Hi Pete cheers for that as you are dead right, however that was the 1st stop also a shop in Notting Hill Gate was similar, I was told it once had a window display made up of about 50 LP sleeves of the Small Faces Ogden's, when they went in to ask how much the LP were he was told we only got them sleeves? all mint, Also in 1981 I found 3 shops in Wolves with loads of Blue Beat Doctor Bird Sue Records + the SOUIX Label which did have RED A demos, one shop was just of the New Hampton rd another was just of that road and on the right hand side of the 1st left, I had some great reggae out that shop, and in BILSTON they had stuff way into the 1990s, I think most original junk shop hunters pre car boot come across pile of Reggae in the late 70s, have you seen a SUE DEMO PETE??? a 100% DEMO I would like to see one, wouldn't you? DAVE

HI ALL .... Well I thought I was clued up about this record, can I assume there are no white label DEMOS of this? Value of this gem is above the £1k mark, since the proper A side got played way back now? how often had you played that side in the 70s?? the SOULTOWN BOOT, wa I got from Carlow's in Bedford,it's as we all no part of a small run of classics, put out by SS late 72, And as I have mentioned before the #1 DJ at the DIVE BAR, HITCHIN. Mr BILLY MAC, had the SWEETS on original SOULTOWN and both myself & Mick tried to convince him it was one of Simon's, The TRIPS 1st SOUNDVILLE REISSUE was imported at the very end of 1975 in a small batch, any other copies that come out, I have no idea or interest come to that, also I looked at the popsike ones, and I was right about the yellow SOUNDVILLE copies being just like the reissue, which are clearly to my eyes better quality to most of the cheaper ones, so I have to ask was there a later SOUNDVILLE PRESSING? than the 1975 reissue?? and I am now of the opinion that the reissue is worth a bit more after seeing popsike, also the Orange copies I think come from Soul Bowl or should I say John had those on his list?? and my reissue has the letter I instead of the H this has not been mentioned?? and I agree where is Ranking Johnny Boy when he is needed???? DAVE 42 YEARS ON FROM "MY EARS ARE ALL RIGHT" I n I baby one.??

HI AL L PEPS KNICKED RECORDS! out of the records that went walk abouts there was only 1 record retrieved? a VELOURS Demo It belonged to Mick Smith he had let PEP borrow it to DJ with what a lucky lad, i think it was PEP who gave it back at Blackpool MECCA 2 weeks later, it turned up later much later around the DJ DECKS? the thief was not a collector and they were hidden away for over 2 years before being split an sold, how do I no that, it's an educated guess, and that's what happened when my box was nicked, all i can say you feel so gutted and so shocked that they have gone it must be similar to being told you have only got 3 months to live, well that's how bad i felt records are always stolen to Oder, and the thief is the last person you would notice in and out then passed on in a flash DAVE

HI I Will try and get more stuff for this thread. as Chief has stated and I written, i agree that my reasons for attending are from a 17 year old BB in SOHO, for a in depth insight I know the right people but lost contact years ago the LAWRANCE TINS GRAHAM & MICHEAL, come to mind John MacCellycot a razor boy, shot a copper on the corner with sawn of double barrel, derrick Smedley who was a regular at the SCENE, NIGEL KILWORTH my older brother TILES FLAMINGO NIGHT OWL, UPERCUT RAM JAM, all the people were recognised fighters with reputations the truth is the SOUL SCENE AND THE WESTINDIAN CLUBS attracted as stated the underworld and in the main was run as a place to consume DRUGS and alcohol, they all had a link to gambling, and a large percentage of the females wanted one thing your money, This rule was in place even at Stevenage MECCA the CALI, Dunstable and the ROYAL TOTENHAM, The typical chat would be excuse me fancy a dance, the girl would always have a mate and if you did not have someone to dance with her you got turned down but the 2 questions no matter what they did would be have you got a motor and aren't you gonna buy me a drink, if you fell for that one, ok yeah what do you want? the reply was brandy & babycham ok followed don't forget my mate oh Ill have a merrydown and can you put a vodka in, if the girl was black it was a Pony & rum 9i went through phase of knocking handbags as I sussed out that only girls committed this crime most bags had the same stuff in and most purses just had bus fair or half the taxi fair, these are just normal girls, the whole night was spent trying to get the most of a bloke and never be there at the end, this is what took me by surprise when I went to the early norther allnighters people would say sorry if they bumped into you, if that happened at the FLAMINGO and you did not challenge you where suspected of being an iron from Old Compton street?

HI I Will try and get more stuff for this thread. as Chief has stated and I written, i agree that my reasons for attending are from a 17 year old BB in SOHO, for a in depth insight I know the right people but lost contact years ago the LAWRANCE TINS GRAHAM & MICHEAL, come to mind John MacCellycot a razor boy, shot a copper on the corner with sawn of double barrel, derrick Smedley who was a regular at the SCENE, NIGEL KILWORTH my older brother TILES FLAMINGO NIGHT OWL, UPERCUT RAM JAM, all the people were recognised fighters with reputations the truth is the SOUL SCENE AND THE WESTINDIAN CLUBS attracted as stated the underworld and in the main was run as a place to consume DRUGS and alcohol, they all had a link to gambling, and a large percentage of the females wanted one thing your money, This rule was in place even at Stevenage MECCA the CALI, Dunstable and the ROYAL TOTENHAM, The typical chat would be excuse me fancy a dance, the girl would always have a mate and if you did not have someone to dance with her you got turned down but the 2 questions no matter what they did would be have you got a motor and aren't you gonna buy me a drink, if you fell for that one, ok yeah what do you want? the reply was brandy & babycham ok followed don't forget my mate oh Ill have a merrydown and can you put a vodka in, if the girl was black it was a Pony & rum 9i went through phase of knocking handbags as I sussed out that only girls committed this crime most bags had the same stuff in and most purses just had bus fair or half the taxi fair, these are just normal girls, the whole night was spent trying to get the most of a bloke and never be there at the end, this is what took me by surprise when I went to the early norther allnighters people would say sorry if they bumped into you, if that happened at the FLAMINGO and you did not challenge you where suspected of being an iron from Old Compton street?

HI ALL my copy I got of my mate in London 20 years ago swapped rare reggae 45s for a pile of northern originals, my copy can be easy spotted as it had an edge warp, that I straightened OK but you can see the scar on it played great, when I sold it I got £200 above the asking price from Mick S, I suppose it was a record for his collection if that's is the case. to get yourself a real copy a trade is what I would want for an unblemished copy? very rare record, as I have had a real one, the boot is one of a very few records that I would play if I was DJing, as all the reggae bits I swapped come out of the RED SHOP DUDLY ROAD WOLVES and cost me a £5 for about 60 records it turned out to be a perfect deal, even though the reggae 45s today would treble the price I got? DAVE

HI ALL This CLASSIC just has to be played over this weekend, going to the coast on my TV175 Series 3. and the start of the SPIRIT of 69 thats all please play LOUD DAVE https://youtu.be/r5JHGi0awgc

Hi son, did you ever see the Big Jay McNeely? that I gave to Mick, it was a UK press but the label was RED & BLACK, it must have been made in Jamaica, also I had a few of the A stamped SUE from DAVIDS BOOKSHOP but none of them were the top sounds at the time, when the IRONS move from the BOLYNN I will have to get a bit of the North Bank Half way up behind the Goal, what you say,?

Hi All Great stuff,..1st off the STAR SC 108, I would have to consult with Mick about this, as he used to go to the SOUL CITY SHOP, the info card that come with a normal issue in mint condition, both Mick & myself had never seen it, or read about it, but it's so DAVE G, What consists of a batch 8:-5 Moby Thesaurus words for "batch": amount, array, assortment, block, budget, bulk, bunch, bundle, chunk, clod, clump, cluster, clutch, collection, considerable, copse, count, crop, deal, dose, gob, gobs, good deal, great deal, group, grouping, groupement, grove, hassock, heap, heaps, hunk, knot, large amount, lashings, loads, loaf, lot, lots, lump, make, making, mass, measure, mess, mint, nugget, number, oodles, pack, parcel, part, pat, peck, pile, piles, portion, pot, quantity, quite a little, raft, rafts, ration, run, scads, set, shock, sight, slew, slews, small amount, spate, stack, stacks, stook, sum, thicket, tidy sum, tuft, tussock, volume, wad, wads, whole slew, wisp well I will let you choose? I would say DAVE meant a run? which is 99, 150 or 200, Fur the record Pete, back in 68 to 72, most young dudes mainly bought budget LPs I had many, however some where integral depending whee you lived for example down south best sellers would be the TROJAN TIGHTEN UP 1,2 & 3, RED RED WINE, PAMA, BANG BANG LULU, NU-BEAT GREATEST HITS, SOUL SOURCE, THE CHAMP, ISLAND ROCK STEADY & CLUB 67/8, 331/3 MINIT EVEN THE CBS DOUBLE LP FILL YOUR HEAD WITH ROCK, ISLAND NICE ENOUGH TO EAT, You get my drift? the SOUL CITY VA LP was also common to own, and the STAR was one of the biggest on the LP I did not get the 45 until 1971 nothing has really changed over my life clubbing it, the typical 18 year old today may have a few tunes but they have not got collections like we have, they go out clubbing just the same as I did, the availability of such records like the Star was purchased by a very small number of hard core soul freaks, this leads me back to putting records in category, such as my big moan at the term SKINHEAD REGGEA as I say the average person from that period could today probably name no more than 20 records, the same thing goes for the early soul days, how many records could you say were common in 1969? March April ?? DESMOND DECKER, That's a start maybe you have had loads of copies of the STAR however it will always be a rare record in my book, you will have to take my word on this one, as life was not all about reggae and rare soul music that was played at the TWISTED WHEEL or the FLAMINGO! I will get back to the other points later tonight DAVE

HI The ISLAND recordd is stamped by ISLAND records, Please send scan, I have seen records with the A on SEA CRUISE is one, and to a piont you are right, but I think quite a few records that were played at the wheel that come from Island had a A on, Brian maybe talking about the club records, if so they are very limited in number, I have some rare DEMOS to show you, DAVE

HI PETE I don't understand the question???are you saying that there are fakes? for example a scan of a G&W on a Issue?

HI And cheers for the comments, as far as I am aware ISLAND RECORDS / SUE RECORDS. Never issued any DEMO records, any record that has the London address stamped on come from the ISLAND SHOPS such as MUSIC CITY they were all a part of B&C, the stamped ones were not DEMOS, but reduced in price, I have put a good example up for you, Brian did indeed sell SUE RECORDS again I have a complete list of all the shops in the UK & Northern Ireland. The 1 st SUE RECORD WI-301 INEZ FOXX MOCKINGBIRD, was 1st issued with a TRI centre and is very hard to find?, the SOUL CITY PROMOS are SC 104, SC 107, both are black and white DEMOS, SC 110 has no label, but record infomation hand written, by DAVE GODIN, every one, mine slopes he must of had cramp? & the Rarest is SC 114 which belongs to MICK SMITH, SC 108 NEVER COME OUT AS A DEMO, and I would like to see a scan of SC 106, As I am sure there must be others, but DAVE did not promote the label outside the security of the scene, DAVE

HI ALL And I must thank everyone for their time, on this subject, and I am sure it will be off interest to all Soul Source members, It would seem that in most cases there is 2 copies of most records East & West coast, also that there are some of the top rare stuff seems to have only got a West coast pressing? why that is so is another anomaly from the labels as Philadelphia is on the east cost? and the stamped DJ-COPY is on East coast pressings and only put onto CAMEO RECORDS? also the same style of stamp is also common in size, i still feel there's a definitive answer to why there are only a few of the stamped copies. Maybe the answer is straight forward, and they are in fact what the stamp states DJ copies that were used by a certain local Radio station DJs I am sure that CAMEO PARKWAY RECORDS was not part of the PAYOLA scam that made a mockery out of the US charts? Also having looked at the scans, I am not sure now how to value these records, as common sense tells me that the stamped copy would be less desirable than a printed Demo, and some may say that it devalues the stock copy? However I have never belonged to that school of thought as I like a record that has history, for example UK DEMOS missing the centre, tells me that at one time a DJ played it and with that in mind that's the way it is meant to be. if some people collect rare records and demand it to be mint, in the long term they should be exploited to the max, I remember someone who had a mint HOAGY LANDS NEXT IN LINE STATESIDE DEMO, HE PUT IN A CARD SLEEVE THEN A POLY BAG, the record was never played 35 years on, if he has still got it, what was the point, I collect records not stamps? Thanks & to conclude here is a scan of a record that I found in my loft about 1 year ago, it must have been there for at least 20 years DAVE K I have just noticed that this DEMO has © 1963 CAMEO RECORDS? instead of © 1960 ?

Nice one Andy, I am sure you are right, and there must be a original US white & black Demo out there, my comments as you state are about the Selecta boots of Th 70s, maybe that was not clear? also I am making an assumption that the stamped DJ-COPY is from the East Coast and any black & white Demos are from the West Coast, as there are so few of them? it would help if someone has a proper black & white copy of ENVY to show, plus other examples of CAMEO demos with the DJ-COPY Stamped on, DAVE

HI AL The UK SUE label was once the the licence to promote the US parent company pulled out, started to block the info out with the black bar. for many years it was issued the bar indicated a demo, however as the soul scene grew, it was obvious that there was no copies without the bar? as 1+1 =3 the information about the status of the SUE label become more clear, in fact both labels ISLAND & SUE have real spurious legit about them, It was not challenged until 1966/7 when John Abbey took over the labels output from Guy Stevens, that anybody challenged it. and Island records answer was to change both labels, Island went Pink, and SUE become Action, however the person who paid the price for spilling the beans, so to speak, was BLUES & SOUL journalist DAVE GODIN who was getting his SOUL CITY label pressed by PHILLIPS/ISLAND, They made life a misery for Dave and his SOUL CITY label, perhaps the most upsetting was the release of Shirley Lawson the STAR SC 108 which was withdrawn, thus making it the rarest SOUL CITY Record by far, we don't count SC120 do we? So there are no SUE DEMOS, ACTION have he B&C skellington A Stamp, and there are 4 SOUL CITY promos, can you name them? Hope this helps? I have scanned my copy of Shirly Lawson with apology note from Dave Godin DAVE K

Hi Cheers for that, and you are right anyone could do it! but surely that would be devaluing or defacing a rare issue copy? also the stamp is also on non NORTHER RECORDS, so it's a company thing, as a collector of UK soul & reggae I have many B&C A stamped demos, and they could be put on with a spud? unless you no whats what they could be faked all day long, but would you do that and sell it, I am positive the answer is no. as soon as you were sussed your reputation on the scene would be zilch! good point though, but that's not the answer I'm sure of that? DAVE K

HI ALL.....When it comes down to promotional stuff, got me thinking about the Philadelphia Years CDs that come out n 1983/4 with a nice EP, i have seen the EP for sale but never the complete bumf that come with it, I have put a part of the promotion for you to look at, however I have left half of the promotion out, which includes a pen note pad, large shop poster, and the info from the 2 booklets, I love this sort of thing, but most would just put a token price on reissue stuff? again what value is it worth? DAVE K