Roburt

There are a few books out there about Robert Plant & his music career. It's obvious his real love was American blues music. I believe he thought the tracks he made with Led Zep were 'blues tracks' though most fans of the group think of them as heavy rock. I'm not a fan of his 70's / 80's rock stuff so have no reason to buy any of the books about him. I'd think that the mod / soul phase of his career were more coz they were the in thing at the time rather than 'true loves' of his -- but I may be doing him a disservice with my opinion. Anyone got any of the books & if so, what do they say about his mid to late 60's period (his mod & soul periods). I'm also not sure if when Listen were done & he was going out as Robert Plant & the Band of Joy, he was still doing lots of soul stuff -- though 1968 ads for an old soul club up my way (north Lincs) suggest the group were being booked to do a soul type show ...

Gene Redd produced / oversaw the cutting of the tracks that formed Kool & the Gang's first album (released on De-lite). These were laid down at NY's Bell Sound Studios with UK engineer Malcolm Thomas Addey (who'd started out @ EMI's Abbey Rd studios) twiddling the knobs on the desk. The initial tracks would have been cut around June 69, with no doubt others a little later after their first 45 "Kool & The Gang" became a hit in August 69. Gene obviously pressed up a few early 45's and got them out to local radio stations as WWRL were tipping the cut to become big at the beginning of that July. Redd seemed to be concentrating just on Kool & the Gang in 69, he'd championed them for a good while before this though. My guess is that he had the Appointments tracks in the can & the owners of De-Lite asked if he had anything else they could put out.

A PIECE ON-LINE ABOUT HIM (Carl Dean) ... ... Dene travelled all over the country to all-nighters like Manchester’s Twisted Wheel and the Mojo in Sheffield, before taking up spinning himself. A rare soul collector .... ... In early 1966 he recalls the top Wheel sounds being “Call On Me” by Bobby Bland, “Sweet Thing” by The Spinners, “All for You” by Earl Van Dyke, “It Keeps Rainin’” by Fats Domino, “The Jerk” by The Larks, “(Girl) Why You Wanna Make Me Blue” and “The Way You Do the Things You Do” by The Temptations ...... In ‘64 and ‘65, there were very few imports. They started coming in 1966 when shops were starting to import them .... RECORDS YOU TOOK TO THE WHEEL TO GET PLAYED >> originally it wasn’t played very often and it became very popular. “Tired of Being Lonely” by the Sharpees on Stateside. I don't think I'd have met him back in the day (as I was a regular at the Mojo & Wheel in 67 / 68, he used to go at an earlier time). But the stuff he was into at the Wheel (& obviously got hold of to play @ Le Metro & Chateau Impney) were similar records to the Sharpees one. He even makes mention of the Sharpees UK released 45 > so if he was anything like me, he'd have been looking out for US only Sharpees 45 releases on auction lists of import soul 45's that were being sent out in the UK back then. BTW, the Sharpees "Tired Of ..." biggie has been included on the new TWISTED WHEEL album due to it's legendary status at the club. BTW, I had to laugh at the Chateau Impney allnighter ad ... the live acts were on at 2.00am & 3.30am but they served breakfast (4/6d) at 3am -- so if you felt like eating an early meal (!!?!!), you'd miss much of the live acts shows. The live acts were on at that time to enable them to do (say) a 10pm show at another club earlier the same night -- which meant the niter show promoter would pay less to have the act on.

One of Carolyn's old tracks ...

Curtis, good to know you & Carolyn are still plugging away over there in Vegas. If I remember correctly, we met up at the US SOUL CONVENTION concert night myself & Lou Ragland organised in Vegas back in 1990. I have a few of Carolyn's old recordings & look forward to hearing this one (is it up on Youtube yet ?) Is that Carolyn looking away from the camera (& at Lou) in the picture below ? The lady next to Freddie Empire ?

Could have a point here. . . . I had to get a copy of SOUL UP NORTH mag to Chuck Corby in Pittsburgh a while back. I checked how much it would be to post the mag from the UK and it was over £20. My son was heading across to the US and so I asked him to post it there for me. He did so, but wasn't happy as he had to pay $20 to send it internally in the US. . . . So to pay US postage & then US to UK postage on the same 45's may work out quite expensive.

Robert Plant went on to find great fame as a heavy rock god in the 70's (mostly known for his work in Led Zeppelin but then later solo stuff as well) but our scene knows him best for his CBS 45 B side "I've Got A Secret" (1967). He's about my age (being born in 1948) and came from a well-to-do family in West Brom (Birmingham). He was intelligent but fell out of love with school work when he discovered blues music while a teenager. He didn't do well in his GCE exams, left school and drifted between 9 to 5 jobs. His main interest was in playing music & he was in groups from an early age. He hung out & played at many of the top Birmingham area blues venues (many being pubs like the Bulls Head - though he was underage). He built up a decent record collection, again mainly blues. He went to a live show @ the Gaumont Cinema in Wolverhampton and was much taken with Bo Diddley. He got a Lambretta & would use it to go over to the Old Hill Plaza. There he'd perform with groups or act as an MC / DJ. Mods & soul music had become in vogue & so he joined / formed a local mod group -- Listen. As it was mod groups that were getting the best bookings they steered that path and the group became known for doing covers of soul songs in their live act. They would do Robert's fave songs; Solomon Burke's "Everybody Needs Somebody To Love" and Sam & Dave's "Hold On I'm Coming". Noddy Holder (soon to be of Slade) would act as their Roadie, helping ferry their gear around. They got lots of local gigs + ones as far away as the Boston Gliderdrome in Lincolnshire (they'd back up visiting US singers during their acts too). Listen were soon a big draw on the Birmingham club scene, getting packed house at venues such as the Midnight City Club in Digbeth. Next they landed a record deal with CBS. How this came about I'm unsure, but they were cut by a joint US / UK team -- Danny Kessler & Roger Bolton. Kessler was the Yank, having been head of A&R for Okeh Records and RCA's R&B division. He had co-founded Seville Records in 1959 and then sold his part of the company before joining Leiber & Stollers' production company. Later he returned to Seville Records to work in conjunction with Edward Kassner (of President Records). I guess it was via Kassner / President that he ended up in the UK cutting Robert & Listen (1966). The Listen 45 ( a cover of a Young Rascals track) sank without trace but more tracks were cut and a couple of 45's were put out under Robert's name -- the B side of the 2nd one being "I've Got A Secret". "I've Got A Secret" was released by CBS in July 67 and was a cover of the Sharpees recording for One-derful from April 66. I guess "I've Got A Secret" was a song that Listen had also done in their live act. At that time the group were playing gigs at venues such as Le Metro in central Birmingham & Chateau Impney in Droitwich. . . . NOW (EVENTUALLY) TO MY QUESTION. The Sharpees 45 was never released in the UK and due to this, it's unlikely that a UK publishing company was on board with the song and marketing it to UK record companies to get British acts to cut a version. So how come Robert Plant & Listen knew the song (he was performing as Robert Plant & Band of Joy by then). WELL ... at the time they were frequenting / playing clubs like Le Metro and Chateau Impney (which boasted about having the 1st disco club in the midlands -- The Imp Cellar Club) a certain DJ was resident at both venues -- FARMER CARL DEAN. Now Carl had a great collection of import soul 45's ahead of many other UK soulies BUT it's also said that Robert Plant had expanded his record collection to also include soul 45's .... so is it known if Robert had this 45, as when not performing in his group he'd DJ himself at various local venues. So he could have spun the 45 & witnessed the dance floor reaction ... OR ... he could have been in attendance when Carl Dean was DJing & heard him play it & again seen the crowd's reaction .... of course, it's also possible that their American producer Danny Kessler (who had worked for Okeh) could have been aware of this US soul hit and had brought the song to them himself. .. .. ... Yet another possibility is that a band that set the club alight at Le Metro near Snow Hill Rail Stn was the Spencer Davis Group -- they were very R&B biased & just maybe they did the song in their live act & that's how Robert first heard it. . . . . Anyone know the story of how Robert Plant came to cut a version of the Sharpees song ?

The folk I've talked to about Gene Redd said he really had the gift of the gab & could talk many folk into financing one of his projects. Both in Detroit & New York, I believe he'd find a group, get some financial backing to pay for them to visit the studio, cut them & then go shopping for a deal with their tapes. Before Chuck Corby went out as a solo singer, he led the Pittsburgh group Four Plus One. The group went to Detroit to see a guy @ Golden World. The guy wasn't there when they arrived but Chuck's group met up with Gene @ the studio. He listened to them, took a liking to their sound (Gene thought he could market them as a Righteous Brothers type outfit) & had them record for him. He then headed off with their tape to New York to try to get them a deal. They didn't wait around for him to get back to them & Chuck recut the songs in a hometown studio, so the GW cut versions of the songs never got released. But it seems Gene had indeed managed to get someone interested in putting out the Four Plus One tracks (though it had taken a little while). So Gene seemingly was always wheeling & dealing with regard to different groups / singers and their joint on-speck recordings. Sidney Barnes worked quite a bit in the studio for Gene but stopped doing so as Gene's deals had a habit of not working out (meaning Sidney didn't always get paid). I recall asking Sidney about some of his dealings in Detroit with Gene & he didn't want to diss Gene as he liked him as a person (just decided not to continue working with him). I don't think Sidney would know anything specifically about the Appointments recordings or who was in the group BUT ... he could well enlighten us all more on Gene's modus operandi -- if anyone can get him to talk on this subject,.

Shipping via US friends & in bulk is by far the best idea (cost wise).

First fell in love with the track back in 1966 -- when I bought the UK cheapie Marble Arch LP 'BLUES & SOUL'. Didn't know most of the tracks on the album when I purchased it but with cuts on there by the likes of Jamo Thomas, Little Milton, Joe Tex and Mitty Collier, it was a 'must buy' item. Instantly fell in love with the (unknown to me then) tracks by Knight Brothers & Spooners Crowd. Started buying other Knight Brothers records instantly but could never work out why there were no other Spooners 45's available. Took me a while to link the 'Crowd' with Fame Records & Mr. Oldham.

Art Records was Johnnie's own label. Most probably named after her son Art / Artwell Matthews. Artwell and Audrey (Johnnie's children) were members of Black Nasty / Nazty who then renamed themselves The ADC Band. The groups enjoyed a bit of success in the 70's & very early 80's.

I've loved Johnny Copeland's blues style recordings for many years. This is up there with his best of them. He skipped from label to label thru the 60's, 70's & 80's -- why no record company tried to hang onto him I don't know (never heard stories about him being a difficult character to deal with). Maybe being based down in Texas didn't help his recording career. It's a crying shame that he was allowed to go for 5 years in the 70's without a record contract. He seemed to be rescued from oblivion in the 80's by labels that specialised in old style blues singers (UK & Euro based ones included). He didn't seem to get a single mention in Billboard mag in the 1970's after a note about his 1970 Kent 45 release ("Soul Power" -- a licensed in track by Kent).

In the mid 60's, album notes took a different path. We were actually living the life every week; buying our Levis, Ben Sherman's & mohair made to measure suits, riding our Lambrettas, going to the clubs, watching RSG and the Untouchables on tv, etc. What we needed was more knowledge on the artists, their records & record labels. So sleeve notes back then (by the likes of Guy Stevens, Dave Godin, Mike Raven & James Hamilton) were about these subjects -- what US label Bob & Earl were signed to, which city Joe Simon cut his records in & where the Volumes were from (Pittsburgh ?) ...

On of the biggest agents to bring US soul acts over to the UK was Roy Tempest. He went ROGUE in 67 as he could make more money passing unknown groups off (flown over to the UK from New York) as hit groups. This he did for a couple of years & he then got even worse by employing black British singers to masquerade as top US soul singers (one pair going out together as Chuck Jackson & Carla Thomas). He'd started out bringing over the real artists & running tours for them (Edwin Starr, Garnett Mimms, Rufus Thomas, Ben E King, Billy Stewart, Solomon Burke & more) but 'turned' in mid 67. ANYWAY, he had his own string of UK groups that he'd signed up & it was many of these that were sent on the road to back visiting US acts. He had to shut his Global Promotions & Universal Dancing companies down, but then started up London Attractions till forced out of the business in the early 70's. One group he'd signed up to back visiting soul singers were the Canadians (unsurprisingly from Canada). They backed quite a few visiting American soul stars. One of their members (who quit the group to join the Warren Davis Monday Band -- he recorded here with them -- was David Foster. He returned to Canada in late 68 & went on to form Skylark (who's singer was Donnie Gerrard). From there he went on to find wide fame in the music biz.

As I posted above ... another is a 45 test press of the Velvelettes "Needle in A Haystack", but all three have just plain white labels with handwritten details on them. . .. BUT I was wrong as by the looks of things, it's a UK test press. I'll post a Bettye Swann Aussie test press though, it is finished off in a more professional manner (typed info) ...

Didn't know about the book, I'll have to check it out. I knew mostly about the club related scene. Which format mainly led the scene; club or pirate radio ? Did any London based BritSoul artists get in on the act & make new records aimed at the scene ? Only releases I've got are these .....

From the info contained in the KOOL TV video above, this must be the singer Kool & the Gang went into the studio with in 1965. It was this guy -- WALTER FOSTER-- who introduced them to Gene Redd .... I know from past research that Kool & the Gang (not going by that name back then) had known & been linked with Gene Redd for quite a while before Gene cut them for De-Lite Records in early summer 69. In the KOOL TV video above, Kool states that Gene had the 'gift of the gab' & could get industry folk to do things (finance projects, etc.) that most other people couldn't do. Sidney Barnes said exactly the same thing about Gene (their paths had crossed in both NY and Detroit).

This thread was really about FRANCES NERO & her tracks for Miss Ray & Eddie ... BUT as I have the pics, here's Lou Ragland in London, being arrested for being TOO DARN SOUFUL ...

Lou was 48 when he did the 1990 UK tour. PHOTO >> Lou on a canal bridge in West Yorks (on route from Worksop to Morecambe). Lou had never seen a UK style canal before ...

The Eastern & Mala 45 were both masterminded by Gene Redd. Though Gene usually worked out of the New York area (where Eastern were located), he moved his base at times (in the mid 60's - 66, 67 - to Detroit). The Eastern 45 dates from April 64, so I'd guess that was the 'east coast' guy. The Eastern song is assigned to Stephanye Music Pub, (Gene's company & label). The Mala 45 dates from September 68, after the time Gene was in Detroit -- he'd moved back to New York in 67 to work on the Platters 'Going Back To Detroit' project for Musicor. He then moved on to mastermind Kool & the Gangs career and started Redd Coach Records. So again I'd guess that's the 'east coast' guy too. IN PASSING ... anyone watched the KOOL TV clips on Youtube ... here's a related one ...

Yes, Lou did lots of shows on that 1990 tour. He did the Caister Weekender, Bradford niter, the 100 Club, a show in Souldrop (Beds), one in Windsor + others and the one Pete Ward promoted in Worksop. The only show that he was on with Sam & Frances was the Morecambe one (though I seem to recall Ronnie McNeir was also on @ that Caister). Lou had told me he'd played on some tracks cut in Detroit in summer 67 but that the singers hadn't been in on the session, just the musicians. I knew the Precisions "If This Is Love" was one of the tracks he was on, so while we were setting up for the Worksop show (getting the sound balance right, etc), I got Pete Ward to put the Precisions 45 on. Lou was messing about with his mic stand at the time, but as soon as the record kicked in, he came running over shouting this is the track I played on ... Lou & some of the crowd @ the Worksop show ...

With Crazy Horse being a new label in late May 1968, I guess they'd have put out feelers with regard to wanting to license in 'outside tracks'. It seems Eddie was around LA at that time & could easily have approached the label to let them know he had some tracks they could release. Those tracks may have been laid down recently in LA or could just have been older things he'd helped cut earlier but was still looking for a deal on. As both Eddie & Ray were involved with the two Gino tracks that Crazy Horse put out, I'd hazard a guess that the Gino & Frances duet would have been cut around the same time & in the same studio. That's just an educated guess though.

You're correct. Ian Levine had brought Frances & Sammy over to do some shows & I was running Lou Ragland's UK tour. All 3 singers came together for that night in Morecambe. Sammy was a real laugh (& a beer monster) ... I believe it was May 1990. Sam on the dance floor @ Morecambe ...

So it seems Crazy Horse licensed 'externally created' tracks for release on the label. ... # 1300 being cut @ Fame studios (a May 68 release). . . . was there a #1301 ? . . . #1302 was cut in LA by Golden Age Productions . . . #1303 (Gino's 45 - a late September 68 release) was cut in Detroit by Ray & Eddie (though Andy said Eddie was LA based by the time it was released) . . . #1304 was out of LA too ... # 1305 was masterminded by Aki Aleong. From 1967, Aleong was Capitol Records west coast R&B sales / promotions manager; so that one was almost actual Crazy Horse label's own product. This 45 was reviewed by Billboard mag on 26th October 68 .... #1306 was cut in LA (?) & was another Golden Age Productions release in Dec 68 .... #1309 was a 2nd David & the Giants 45 out of Fame (an early 69 release). So apart from the David & the Giants 45's (cut in Muscle Shoals) & Gino's 45 (cut in Detroit it seems), all the other releases on the label had strong LA connections.

https://soulfuldetroit.com/showthread.php?33596-Frances-Nero-amp-The-Marvelettes It includes the following lines ... "After leaving Motown, Nero made more recordings with Raynoma Gordy and Gino Parks at Shrine Records, which went unreleased." It also says that "Lady In Waiting" was a duet with Gino Parks at Shrine Records. I didn't realise till I read the thread that the backing track to Frances's "Keep On Loving Me" was originally laid down (in Aug 64) for the Marvelettes but that (! ? !) the group refused to record it.