Modernsoulsucks

Obviosly it's not your fault. Were you the seller then? What happened to winning an auction and paying up, committed to buying under Ebay policy etc ROD

Hold on a minute. Hootenannie could you just clarify your recent post. Are you saying it didn't sell at $5,000+ because the winning bidder refused to pay due to "difference" in bids. What does that mean? ROD

No apology necessary Bogue. I think I've come to completely the opposite conclusion to you based on my observations. I did say that there aren't "vast " quantities of a lot of 45s about but I do think there are copies around to fill demand unless a title suddenly takes off. Those Wells 45s on Popsike all had less than 20 bids, in fact 2 had less than 10. Even if we assume that all those bids were different bidders it's still not that many. 20 copies would fill the demand evident from those bidding with copies to spare. I know not everybody is on Ebay but I think a large percentage of collectors are on it. I wonder if you're overestimating demand. I'd also say that I think people are having to sell 45s to buy other 45s. You only have to look at the ads on here which often say they need to sell quickly to buy something else. Coupled with say Pete S who has written before about a general slow down in sales, surprise expressed frequently on here at prices attained on some auctions, and I get the impression that the average collector is getting a lot more careful when spending money. ROD

Hi Bogue, yes I know you were surprised at the end price and I thought you were referring to 1966 as NOT being a reason for the final OTT figure IMO. I did refer to the thread and did not mean that you were talking it up. There have been quite a few Bobby Wells on Ebay since I got mine and according to Popsike last 1966 issue went for £30 in Dec 06. There are actually only 3 sales listed on Popsike for this 45 and my transaction isn't there so I now realise that this site does not list every sale. There are 4 Cecil Washington's listed. I don't think that points to Bobby Wells being rarer than Cecil Washington!! I take your point that cheaper 45s are not around in vast quantities and assume from that it is demand and not availibility or rarity that drives prices. I guess I get my idea of a fair price from my experience over last 35 years of selling 45s. Obviously £4.99 for Cliff Nobles is miles under the going rate. "Buy it now" I assume rather than an auction? Before I joined this site I was surprised at what some 45s were fetching but after joining I realised that what people talk about on here often reflects on Ebay prices. Hence my comment abouty "talking up" records. Finally going back to Bobby Wells and Popsike there is a listing for "Be that...." on FULLER for $180 back in 2005. At the risk of talking that up, I've never seen that!! ROD

A '66 issue? So's mine and it was £30 off Ebay a few months back. I seem to remember a recent thread about this on here. The curse of Soul Source. Talking up common -ish 45s. ROD

I've got Gordon Berry but it's SPORT 103 as is Tony Daniels. Same song exactly credited to different artists. All my titles are issues except Masterkeys 109 ROD

I had no idea that Wellington's reputation had been sullied in this manner. Without his military genius we'd be listening to Sacha Distel and watching Jerry Lewis films with French subtitles. Actually no; we'd be listening to oompah bands and watching Italian films with German subtitles cos we woulda surrended in 1940. You are no student of History,Sirrah, and you failed to mention carpets so it's your argument that's floored. ROD

"Whoever you imagine this "good authority" to be, you're obviously hearing voices that aren't actually there. I suggest you seek urgent treatment - and while you're at it get some of that "dead wax" out of your ears!" I may have inadvertently in my choice of modern soul fans given the impression that as a whole I considered them to be sociopaths out of touch with reality and lacking a sense of humour. I can now see from Mel's reply that I was wrong and I apologise. However, I have noticed that the last two letters of Steve Plumb's surname can be interpreted as standing for Murderous Bastard. I've read the Da Vinci Code and even if Mr.Plumb can prove Im at error in this deduction that trace of doubt must linger. Coupled with Arthur Fenn, the Noxious Ninja I am beginning to see a pattern emerging, with the help of the mushrooms, that bears further investigation. As a warm fuzzy 60's fan I would point out that last two letters of my own surname, Shard, undoubtably stand for Rogering Debbie, a much more enjoyable experience than the alternate David or Derek. Yet again conclusive proof I feel that the 60's was here before the 70's unless you're travelling backwards in time like that judge on the X-files who was accused of murdering his wife but it was that Mexican hoodlum who'd done it to get back at the judge for sending the Mexican's brother to jail where he unfortunately committed suicide. A classic if slightly irrelevant for the purposes of this post. ROD

I have it on good authority that Pol Pot, Martin Bormann, Attila the Hun and Doctor Crippen were all modern soul fans, whilst St. Francis of Assissi, Mother Theresa, Albert Schweitzer and the Duke of Wellington preferred the sounds of the 60's. I don't think you can argue with that and hopefully this concludes any further debate. Thank you ROD

Didn't this come out here on Bell around 1968. I coulda sworn I'd played "Dang me" and it sounded like C&W. Am I mixing it up with something else? ROD

Only in the scale of the operation Sebastian. You're still selling bootlegs which are illegal. I've done it too. Bought a collection and sold the pressings off. Im sure most people on here have at least once. Im not sure how many titles Amnesia have done. I usually see up to 5 or 6 at a time when listed on Ebay. To use your drug analogy, I think they go after individual sellers all the time and users as well. ROD

For Bazza and Billy I hate to blow my own trumpet but I did find that Curtis in Midwestern Distributors,St. Louis sometime in 79/80 and sold it to Richard. It was part of my cunning plan to discredit modern soul for all time so Im a bit perturbed to see that it's regarded as a classic by some nowadays. Would it have been a new release then. The place operated a "Disco Pool" and I remember all these Black DJs coming in and listening to a Sugar Hill release. I think it was "Birthday Party". With hindsight I shoulda brought that back and sold it to Richard instead!! ROD

. "Why did South Wales Police (CID), the Fraud Squad and investigators from Trading Standards suddenly get involved???" Is it because the potential loss of revenue to the record company is a serious threat to public order and undermining the very basis of our liberal democracy? Just a wild guess. Pete, I know Paul is doing his job and I did mention he was "on the case". I just think some of the other contributions to this debate have been hysterical and selective. As I said what's the difference to Amnesia selling boots, and the "2nd presses" on sale on this site now, from the point of view that the artists etc don't see a penny. Personally, none in my book so I don't understand why Amnesia is the Devil incarnate and everybody else is just selling 45s that aren't original or whatever justification is used. Im pretty sure if I were to go through Ebay I could find a lot of sellers who have sold boot after boot with the only difference being that they didn't press them up as well. Does nobody else think that if you were in Amnesia's shoes you'd not be too happy about what looks like a double standard to me. ROD

https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NORTHERN-SOUL-THE-SK...1QQcmdZViewItem https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/THE-GROUP-FT-CECIL-W...1QQcmdZViewItem https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NORTHERN-SOUL-SMOKE-...1QQcmdZViewItem https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NORTHERN-SOUL-RECORD...1QQcmdZViewItem I have no idea whether Rob has an axe to grind on this subject but I certainly don't. As I've said on other threads I DONT buy boots. However there are hundreds of people selling boots and buying boots everyday of the week. Without the customers there is no profit at all. OK, Amnesia is high profile right now but I think Paul is on his case and IMO it is a complete OTT reaction to keep pointing the finger at this guy. The four links were found within 2 pages of UK Ebay. What is Paul doing about these guys or is it OK to steal a very very small amount and Amnesia just got too greedy. ROD

Alan, Im kinda partial to Mint copies of things so I've no idea what Ex is as it varys from seller to seller. No marks, no scuffs and no WOL or writing on/damage to sleeves and Im interested. Chris,don't get down to Manchester much but will check them out next time Im there. Thanks for that. ROD

Pete,so how much is that Mint Techniques? I have Heptones on re-issue album but want UK 45 only. I accept everybody's point about condition of a lot of reggae from way back. However, when I actually collected it from 69-71 there were hundreds and hundreds of cheap Mint copies knocking around Manchester and surrounding areas for 2 bob, so someone somewhere may have this stuff. Another I'd like is Sensations "Baby Love". ROD

Anybody have Mint copies of anything at all on French MOTOWN ep's. I have #'s 535,537 and 501. Also bit of a long shot. These reggae 45s in Mintish on UK issue if released:- Techniques Queen Majesty Uniques My conversation Heptones Ting-a-ling Any pointers to dealers who specialise in 60's reggae appreciated. Finally anyone with a spare WDJ of Perigents "Love's on the Rampage" in Mint. Is that about £50? ROD

It's not the Stoppers is it Or maybe something by Naturals called "la da.... something or other. Or that Devotions but isn't that more Dum de dum. ROD

"So my friends would rather go to a night advertised as "Soul across the board" (or something) and we need people like my friends cos they're new blood. .......... They can't understand why there's all this talk about rare records when they've never owned a record, only use CDs and more likely MP3 players........" As an old scrote I've obviously completely misunderstood the whole Northern Soul thing from the beginning. I have no choice but to fall on my sword and pack it in. But don't worry numbers won't fall as my mum and dad will be attending in my place. Give me a f.....g break!!! ROD

"You're right about the irrelevance of whether a tune was played in the 70s, well known to us or rare.. to the younger people the music is all relatively new" Why is this an irrelevance? For a lot of us who have stuck with it I would imagine we're not particularly interested in hearing records we've either got or have heard in the past. Might be new to young people but it's not particularly exciting for me. Again it's admitted by Dave that this young scene will probably be seperate which is my whole point. Enjot what you've got and don't expect much to change as it seems to be getting along fine right now. ROD

" these nights lack the tired politics and concentrate on having a good time, pure and simple, i would not compere them to the 'traditional' scene as such, but these promoters dont really look to the trad scene anyway for inspiration" Ste, Im really not criticising and certainly not having a go at you. In fact you're saying above what Im saying. It's got very little to do with my scene other than incorporating 45s I happen to like. So it's not gonna extend the sell-by-date of trad NS as you call it. To be honest the funk thing is nowt new. My ex-girlfriend was playing funk, 2-step and jazz mixed with hip hop to a young crowd in Manchester back in the 90's at the Atlas Bar, Home and a couple of other places. I think she did a club in Leeds as well at the time as a guest. At the time I was a dealer and went to USA a lot and I let her keep whatever sounded good in those styles. She didn't touch Northern but only cos there was no way she was taking my 45s outta the house!! ROD

Apart from the "old" I agree completely with Mark and Joan. I don't care if a club has 50 old "chinstrokers" or 500 "youngsters" in as long as I get to hear something new to me and buy a couple of 45s. That's what I get out of the scene. ROD

"The scene isnt just 50 somethings who were there the first time around (Lucky b*******!)it is an evolving scene in my eyes and far from over" There appears to be an awful lot of muddled and wishful thinking about this topic. Im not singling out Ste Brazil here for a personal attack but in light of his above comment I'd like to know how he reconciles the reference to "evolving" to his own wants he's posted on here which include "House for sale", "Summer in the Parks", Pusherman", Innervision, and Lavern Baker, all of which have been played going back to the 70's. Im sorry Ste but that's the only evidence I have of the type of 45 you like and which Im assuming are in your opinion part of this vibrant younger scene you wish to take hold. My overall impression is that guys like Simon M feel that the funkier 70's sound will attract the youngsters. I have no idea if he's right and don't know anything about that part of the scene and can only assume he's talking Keb Darge, Butch, JT Trouble approach.However Ste does refer to clubs in Leeds where I doubt that type of playlist is utilised. I think this "mythic" influx of youngsters that are gonna save us all very shortly will not continue my scene but will just like what they like and so if Ste's wants list is a guide it will be the same old 45s us 50 something "chinstrokers" heard years ago and won't be fresh but just more nostalgia. Now, there's nothing wrong with any of that from the point of view that it's great younger people should get to hear these 45s and take from that experience what they want, but I fail to see how it backs up any notion of an unbroken progression from say the Wheel to Middleton. I just can't see it being a continuation of our scene. Im sorry if that makes me a grumpy old man. ROD

On the subject of whether 45s are selling, last time I went out I did spend about 3 hours watching very carefully what was going on. I no longer deal in 45s but I had a few to sell and sold about £150 worth. I didn't see any of the other guys sell anything whilst I was there. I did look through the other boxes cos I had money to spend. IMO all were overpriced to some extent. A 45 I fancied at £50 was bad condition, and judging from general appearance rather than examining vinyl, so was a lot of other stuff,yet were more than Mint price. Lot of fannying about going on with one guy messing about with a £600 45 for around 30 minutes before it ended up back in the sales box. Seemed to me that the sellers got their kicks from having the 45s and the lookers got theirs from handling and talking shit all night about them. Very very sad. ROD

Well,stop in a bit more Chalky. I went to 2 clubs last night and didn't hear it all. I take your point though. Thing is if a guy presses up some of whatever and no one bought them he'd be depriving nobody of anything. He'd be out of pocket in fact. So to make these guys out as bogeymen is hysterical overkill. IMO better spend your time trying to "educate" [hate that word} the punters who buy them. No sales,no bootlegs. Unfortunately record companies are rubbish from the point of view of making Northern available on vinyl. Either can't be bothered or not financially viable. So if Joe Bloggs can't afford £300 or whatever, then £15 is a bit of a bargain. They want the 45, they love the music. If the legit guys are useless what other alternative is there? I know souless, glorified cassette CDs, with all the appeal of a wet haddock when compared to albums and 45s. ROD