boba

to address this specific point -- numero will only work with artists who they are actually able to locate (or in a few cases the families of the artists). There are a bunch of cases where there were some in demand 45s (some of them which they wanted to use for this box) that they could have licensed from the producer and publisher but which the artist wanted nothing to do with. They actually passed on those records. Also, it really seems you are making a straw-man argument. Numero has put checks in many people's hands, and in the case where they get film / tv syncs, artists have actually received large checks AND seen their music used on film / TV. Their family also sees the fans of the music posting on youtube, etc. and gets excited.

This honestly shows how you don't understand the much larger market that numero has. Plenty of casual music fans who buy records (there are tens of thousands of them) buy numero product, in the US and elsewhere. I'm on another message board consisting of mostly LP collectors who buy all sorts of genres and many of them who don't even buy soul LPs bought the box set because it was so cool in terms of the packaging, diversity of music, etc. It was even mostly sold via preorder. Lots of people who don't even buy much music buy every numero LP. This is not an attempt to disrespect you, I think that the specialness of being in an exclusive scene can really hide the much larger world of music buyers out there.

to say it's doing no favor to "the scene" is short sighted imo. In the short term, yes, it may slightly hurt the upfront scene consisting of a relatively small group of people who attend upfront soul nights where the music policy is based on the rarity / exclusivity of records possessed by the top DJs. I understand that hearing an exclusive tune that you waited months to hear and traveled to hear is a special experience for most of the 800 people attending the night. In the long run, however, it will get many more people into soul 45 collecting and get many more nights started where collectors eventually will seek out rare original 45s. That seems more sustainable that the elite group of (mostly older) people who travel to hear specific rare records. Moreover, it seems unlikely that DJs on that particular scene will try to pass off any represses as originals. It would be like blasphemy and they would get excommunicated quickly. The people who go to the upfront scene still can participate the same way they did before. Also, the point was already made that the box is not mostly northern records. So is it really true that it's better to withhold a box that contains the potential to get much new blood (e.g. from the US) into "the scene" than potentially (but not really imo, if the policy is "OVO") ruining a couple records for a couple DJs? Finally, I've made this point before, a scene should be built on DJs putting together great sets of great music. Not DJs dropping $$$$s on a few expensive records. That type of exclusivity is unsustainable in the digital age -- similar to how "information wants to be free". If you think you can keep a record uncirculated / unknown / unrecorded for very long in the global internet age, you're not being realistic. If people can already hear the records on their computers, does it ruin the specialness of traveling to an event to hear the original? if not, then how does a repress which wouldn't be allowed at that event anyways ruin the specialness?

what do you mean "descended into"? "OVO" is in the first post.

I don't know if this affects the debate or not, but the sag war fare is mastered very well and sounds better than the original 45.

This is pretty rare now (and all the copies are in the UK). It's a good record but not always in demand. I sold a copy for $250 a year ago which I think is fair. I think you would have to wait a while / find the right buyer to get 300 pounds.

it's a grapevine press of a previously unreleased recording

security cameras

I totally don't understand your point at this point. Obviously the records had to be discovered as original vinyl because they weren't reissued until the originals were discovered. I play only original vinyl. But does that mean I have to be against the box? Also, a large percentage of the records weren't played on any scene.

also, the two plus two track was clearly "discovered" by the northern scene, sorry to leave that off

I know I've seen some US dealers with tattered or even photocopied copies of it. Lots of motown records are expensive in the book, that's one thing that's changed a lot in the last decade or two.

are you making a reference to shifty's binder of wanted records with prices? people did earlier things. i found a letter in someone's basement dated some time in the mid-80s from rod shard with a priced list of rare chicago records he wanted to buy.

Hi Lars, I did read your post. I wrote about how the box will get more people into soul 45s and trying to keep people from being able to hear music (except at very limited audience northern clubs) really isn't helping your scene imo. It's killing it. On the other hand, having lots of younger people getting excited about soul sounds on your scene, and getting excited about them being on 45, leads to people starting collecting originals in the long run, establishing local soul nights, etc. The northern events that are supposed to be exclusively OVO will stay that way, if a DJ tries to pass off a numero record as an original it probably would be like a criminal act on the scene. Also, most of the buyers of the box have nothing to do with the scene and few northern DJs will buy the expensive box. Most of the records in the box aren't northern either.

and my point about the grammys was just to say that numero has a much wider audience than the northern audience, and most of the people who bought the syl johnson box set (who are going to be many of the people buying this box) don't know or care about northern soul. and even if this box would not be possible without northern soul (which I'm not seeing), it still doesn't mean that the people buying the box need to care. if the box were a northern-oriented box maybe, but it's clearly not.

my point was not to dis the northern scene and i'm not trying to get into an argument about who discovered what but if you look at the track list, the only track that was clearly established by the "northern scene" was walter and the admerations. and *maybe* the rokk. either way, i don't understand what who discovered what track has to do with anything I said before. I don't even think the admerations record is good, I think it's included almost as a nod to the northern scene. reissuing the records in the box (most of which aren't even northern, most are funk/sweet records) will only get more people interested in 45s. and maybe I didn't bring the records to your attention, but many of the records are records I've had for a long time and brought to numero's attention.

yeah, that is pretty stupid

I only collect originals. But I do support things that get more people into collecting soul 45s.

Legit or not it doesn't matter, you didn't advertise it as such and he didn't fully understand your listing. He should revise his feedback imo.

Honestly, I can't think of anything else that would HELP the scene in the sense of getting new collectors into soul 45s and collecting 45s. What's going to kill off a scene based on 7" vinyl is not allowing anyone new to get into collecting. Them putting this out there is giving people a party in a box. Not a "northern soul event" but the people will be excited to having and playing 7" vinyl. And all the "there are other records to play out there" people really has nothing to do with this argument. Doing a really cool reissue with a box and getting younger people into playing 45s is going to get more people involved with soul 45s. Having a snotty attitude about how they aren't entitled to have them isn't.

Thanks for posting. I moved this to the relevant forum. Thanks.

I don't think Pete knows whether it was legit release, but he advertised it as "2nd issue", which isn't really a claim to legitimacy. I know you aren't familiar with the terminology that people overseas use to describe legit and illegitimate represses but that's pretty much it. Lots of times labels did custom presses just for the UK, other times they are straight bootlegs. I don't think Pete misrepresented the item, or that he has to prove anything. You didn't understand the terminology he was using. It's a misunderstanding. In the end he refunded you and after reading this thread you're still acting like he intentionally defrauded you. He didn't. I think Pete should issue a feedback revision request and you should accept it. I know it doesn't help that people are calling you names either when it was a misunderstanding, but now that everything is laid out here, you really shouldn't neg him. Especially since you're a seller too you should be able to have some perspective on this.

the numero reissues have nothing to do with the northern soul scene. they have a much larger audience. most of the people buying the box are not northern DJs. If they have the side effect of "killing the scene" somehow I doubt they care, they are involved in uncovering, documenting, and paying the artists and producers and making a much larger public hear the music. If reissuing good music and actually paying the artists somehow "kills the scene", what kind of scene is that? last year they were at the grammys, they got nominated for best packaging for their syl johnson box set. i'm pretty sure just about no one at the grammys has heard of "northern soul".

mine just has the first few back pages torn out which i occasionally find under the couch

The numero reissues are all in special designed sleeves that differentiate them even if the labels look the same. the sellers so far haven't tried to hide that. some of the other recent lookalike reissues (e.g. the wheedle's groove) look like the original with nothing differentiating them.

I had a big problem with a person who charged me $30 shipping when it cost $5. I was pissed, and called ebay, and they also told me it was not against the rules. That's not true though, you can report an auction for excessive shipping, it's one of the options when reporting. The guy on the phone at ebay was not helpful. The seller acted like a total ass the whole time, lying, trying to bully me via ebay messages, etc. It was pretty funny because he didn't know how ebay worked very well (I told him this wouldn't help him in the long run). I filed a paypal claim saying that I didn't get what I paid for which is true -- I paid for $30 shipping and got a poorly packed $5 shipping option. I told him I agreed to $30 shipping, because I agreed to pay for a $30 shipping service which he didn't use, and that was what I didn't get. Anyways, it ended with him refunding the difference, me closing the paypal claim, etc.