Robbk

The Ravins must have been a dead rare record, because I never came across it in any of the big Detroit collectors' collections, nor in my monthly bi-weekly record-hunting trips to Detroit during the mid-to-late 60s, nor in all my years of record hunting (starting to specialise in Chicago and Detroit R&B/Soul in about 1960. I flipped through literally millions of 45s during 1960-1995, and some thousands after that, and never saw it, other than a few scans after 2000. I'd bet it never got any radio play, and at BEST it only got hand-delivered to a few record shops in Metro Detroit (maybe not even that).

MY gap is even longer. I started accumulating records (78s) in 1953. That's almost 70 years ago. I replaced my earliest '50s records (mostly 78s) with 45s; and so, even though THOSE 500 or so first acquisitions aren't exactly the original "friend", the music is, and I'd miss them just as much. I could listen to probably 93-95% of the A-side songs on You-Tube, any time I want, and could obtain label scans of most of them. But it's not the same as having several walls covered with shelves of records like a Record Museum, where you can browse through label runs. I know so very many collectors who had to sell off large portions, or their whole collection just to finance their divorces or supplement their pensions just to survive during their retirement years. So, I feel very lucky that it's looking more and more like I'll be able to keep my collection intact until I die IF I can stay mobile enough to avoid having to live in an assisted living facility for incapacitated oldies. My father lived to 94 and was active and mobile, and living in his own house until the morning he died. He had only stopped working 6 months before that. His 3 sisters and mother all lived well into their 90s, and his father till 89. So, it's looking good for me, if I don't ride my bicycle in front of an oncoming tram on an icy night. However, I probably will have to stop dividing my year among five domiciles in 5 different countries. When I know my time is nearing (some time around 2050 (if I am too poor to receive the future life-extending theraputical medical adjustments)) I will find a good home for my records, where they will be appreciated.

Thanks. I've finally heard it. It was very, very ordinary, seemingly weakly inspired, if at all, and very disappointing to me.

Thanks for providing us this interesting back story. I read in several places, and heard from a few Chicago people who were in the music business back then, that Kirchstein was very angry at Talty for using his record label's name without his permission, and had considered a lawsuit.

Thanks. Where can I find a "Finewine Show"?

WOW!!! That Sue record, with songs written by Detroit singer/songwriter, Jesse Greer, was sung by Bobby Sanders' L.A. group???? I never imagined anything like that. But, Detroiter, Mickey Stevenson, wrote songs in L.A. for Leon Rene's Class records, so, I guess sometimes weird-looking situations are just a matter of personal connections through family, networking, or simply meeting people when traveling and making a connection.

These 2 ladies have different tones in their voices, even when they sing in the same key. Also, they have very different mannerisms. Betty Renay sings Bluesy, and uses a lot of tremelo, while Betty Renee sings a lot less emotionally, lighter material, a softer delivery, and doesn't use tremelo much, if at all. The first was from Philadelphia, and the latter from Michigan.

I don't think Betty Renne is just singing in a much higher register. Their voices seem to have different tones, as well. So, I doubt they were the same person. Betty James' "I'm A Little Mixed Up" is in my Top 5 all-time female Blues recordings (along with greats Memphis Minnie, Ma Rainey, Victoria Spivey, and Bessie Smith).

I've always wondered whether this Chandeliers group was a Detroit group, or the known New York group. Although Juggy Murray operated out of New York, he did lease at least one 45 production from Detroit (Freddie Brown's and Joe Hunter's "Toy Soldier" by Detroit's 1st Dramatics group. The songwriter was Detroit's Jesse Greer, who had been a member of Roger Craton's (Lee Rogers') Peppermints and Barons, and he wrote a lot of songs for Detroit singers and groups. I don't remember ever coming across any reference to a Detroit group by that name. The only New York Chandeliers I know of was the 1954-59 Doo Wop group from Kansas City, who recorded "Blueberry Sweet" for New York's Atlas Records. They DEFINITELY broke up in late 1959. So, they couldn't possibly be this 1963 group. Do any of you know if this was a leased Detroit production, or just Murray paying to use 2 Jesse Greer Detroit-penned songs, or Greer moving to New York, and writing for Murray's labels? I don't remember Greer's name on any more releases on any other of Murray's labels' issues, nor do I remember his name on any other NY releases.

Yes. My old memory is failing me. And I'm away from my records.

What about The Cavaliers that had a record out during 1963 on a Juggy Murray label that had songs written by Detroit songwriter/singer, Jesse Greer, who had been a member of a few well-known Detroit groups? Were they at all related to the RCA Cavaliers?

I meant even more correct.

Wow!!! You have quite a fast acting, logical mind, and general knowledge in a wide variety of areas, in addition to a good memory ........ not to mention the most important requisite...... a great knowledge of record labels. Hard to compete with all those strengths in combination! Very impressive. I'd just settle for my having a halfway decent memory (my memory of 50 years ago).

In Yorkshire it WOULD be correct! "warn 'er brothers"

88 - Peachtree (Atlanta)

66 - Evolution

83 - Mark IV

2. Communist Trainer - Ha! Ha! Redd Coach (was also Red Coach for a short while)

36 - Stratosphere?

46 - Start, Fling (Fury subs)

16 - Edison ('50s label)

14 - How simple - RCA

71 - EMI

91 - Casablanca 45 - Sparkle?

81- was there a Malaga record label? Valencia - not exactly southern!