hi in my hand im holding a copy of rose batiste on revilot ,which is a bit unusual as its a sort of silver grey buff colour .the label really clear however the number in the run out groove looks scratched in as opposed to stamped in is this a boot ? I alwas thought the demos where white and the issues a pinky colour and stamped corect me if im wrong !

53 minutes ago, Kenb said:

not just that...but how did 'I Miss My Baby' get to 'Bari Track'?

I'm sure there is a thread on here on somewhere, but can't find it.

 

1 hour ago, The Yank said:

    In the liner notes to "Pied Piper Presents ...Detroit Soul", Shelley Haims said he thought the lead singer of 

"This Heart..." was Telma Hopkins. 

oh I didn't know that cheers

On 19/06/2020 at 12:56, Gilly said:

Telma (Thelma) Hopkins is one half of Tony Orlando's group Dawn, the other girl being Joyce Vincent, I also wonder if Telma is being taken as a spelling mistake for Thelma as in Thelma Records ? 

Telma is Telma Laverne. No spelling mistake.

55 minutes ago, Phild said:

Telma is Telma Laverne. No spelling mistake.

I think the confusion came with some of her credits on backing vocals (incorrectly credited as Thelma)

1 hour ago, Phild said:

Telma is Telma Laverne. No spelling mistake.

that's not quite what im trying to say Phil, I was trying to link her name with the CD that came out as Thelma Records with Martha Reeves rumoured version on Goldmines Thelma collective #69

19 hours ago, Gilly said:

that's not quite what im trying to say Phil, I was trying to link her name with the CD that came out as Thelma Records with Martha Reeves rumoured version on Goldmines Thelma collective #69

The CD lists Hit and Run as a demo version so would this have been done just as a guide for any singer to use when learning the song melody and lyrics. It wouldn't be for release so if Martha Reeves was hanging around could she not have just sung Hit and Run as a favour or some other reason. If it doesn't sound like her that's not surprising, with no producer pushing her for their interpretation of a song.

When Goldmine listed Martha Reeves as the vocalist they must have some information to back this up, Tim wouldn't put MR as the singer for no reason. However the information that Tim has could have got mixed up way back when the tape box was labelled. 

I know we all like a mystery but maybe in this case there isn't one. 

Rick

1 hour ago, Rick Cooper said:

The CD lists Hit and Run as a demo version so would this have been done just as a guide for any singer to use when learning the song melody and lyrics. It wouldn't be for release so if Martha Reeves was hanging around could she not have just sung Hit and Run as a favour or some other reason. If it doesn't sound like her that's not surprising, with no producer pushing her for their interpretation of a song.

When Goldmine listed Martha Reeves as the vocalist they must have some information to back this up, Tim wouldn't put MR as the singer for no reason. However the information that Tim has could have got mixed up way back when the tape box was labelled. 

I know we all like a mystery but maybe in this case there isn't one. 

Rick

I can't believe that Martha Reeves would have sung a demo for Thelma Records in 1966, or, even as early as 1965. She had absolutely no reason to risk angering Berry Gordy at that time, to help out Don Davis or Joey "King" Fish, or just to make a little extra money.  That makes no sense at all. 

On the other hand, her group's rumoured moonlighting, backing up some of J.J. Barnes 1963 and early 1964 Mickay's and Ring recordings, for her old bosses, Joe Hunter and Fred Brown, would have been a different story, considering that back then, Hunter was still also an important cog at Motown, and the group's money was still being "managed" by Berry Gordy.  In that case, The Vandellas could help Hunter out, and get some needed cash, and, if caught, maybe just a slap-on-the wrist fine, because Berry likely didn't want to lose Hunter's services (he DID leave some months later near the end of 1964).

I was listening to some unreleased stuff today and a song came on called 'Better Place' that sounds very much like 'Hit and Run' just checked the BMI and hey presto its written by George McGregor, as is of course the song in question. Anyone know this song 

1 hour ago, Rick Cooper said:

The CD lists Hit and Run as a demo version so would this have been done just as a guide for any singer to use when learning the song melody and lyrics. It wouldn't be for release so if Martha Reeves was hanging around could she not have just sung Hit and Run as a favour or some other reason. If it doesn't sound like her that's not surprising, with no producer pushing her for their interpretation of a song.

When Goldmine listed Martha Reeves as the vocalist they must have some information to back this up, Tim wouldn't put MR as the singer for no reason. However the information that Tim has could have got mixed up way back when the tape box was labelled. 

I know we all like a mystery but maybe in this case there isn't one. 

Rick

What I cannot understand and am amazed is that this forum seems to be absent of Tim Brown, John Manship etc why is that ?...... were they once members and for some reason can't be bothered, surely people of their vast knowledge would chose to comment on these questions and help us figure out what is what ?

2 hours ago, Robbk said:

I can't believe that Martha Reeves would have sung a demo for Thelma Records in 1966, or, even as early as 1965. She had absolutely no reason to risk angering Berry Gordy at that time, to help out Don Davis or Joey "King" Fish, or just to make a little extra money.  That makes no sense at all. 

 

     I agree. But does the Telma on the package refer to a singer named Telma (Telma Hopkins ) or a record company ? It doesn't make much sense that they credit Gwen Owens twice and then write  Telma (referring to a record company instead of a singer) instead of Thelma and then use a song cut at Golden World and send it to Thelma Records .

 

 

Edited June 21, 20204 yr by The Yank

6 hours ago, The Yank said:

     I agree. But does the Telma on the package refer to a singer named Telma (Telma Hopkins ) or a record company ? It doesn't make much sense that they credit Gwen Owens twice and then write  Telma (referring to a record company instead of a singer) instead of Thelma and then use a song cut at Golden World and send it to Thelma Records .

 

 

The pacquet's white label has BOTH "Hit and Run" AND "You'd Better Wake Up" written twice.   "Hit and Run" is listed as by Gwen Owens twice (i.e. 2 different versions), and "You'd Better Wake Up" has Gwen Owens listed for the first version, and Telma (Hopkins) as the possible artist for the second version.  The second one follows the colon, just as Gwen Owens does.  Therefore, it must be a guess as to who the artist is, rather than the record company recipient of the recording.  I doubt that that was a misspelling of "Thelma" standing for Thelma Records.

21 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said:

What I cannot understand and am amazed is that this forum seems to be absent of Tim Brown, John Manship etc why is that ?...... were they once members and for some reason can't be bothered, surely people of their vast knowledge would chose to comment on these questions and help us figure out what is what ?

Hi Blackpoolsoul

I think John Manship used to post on here, sometimes an old thread pops up with his contribution listed under "Guest". Agree that there are lots of people such as Tim Brown who could contribute but either don't look on here or can't be bothered to post. 

The Soulful Detroit forum used to have some interesting discussions but I've not looked at it for a while as it went downhill some years ago.

Maybe you could ask Tim about the Martha Reeves credited Hit and Run, he might reply.

Rick

1 hour ago, Rick Cooper said:

Hi Blackpoolsoul

I think John Manship used to post on here, sometimes an old thread pops up with his contribution listed under "Guest". Agree that there are lots of people such as Tim Brown who could contribute but either don't look on here or can't be bothered to post. 

The Soulful Detroit forum used to have some interesting discussions but I've not looked at it for a while as it went downhill some years ago.

Maybe you could ask Tim about the Martha Reeves credited Hit and Run, he might reply.

Rick

I did last week and no reply, I suppose to some ignorance is bliss

 

On 22/06/2020 at 04:47, Robbk said:

The pacquet's white label has BOTH "Hit and Run" AND "You'd Better Wake Up" written twice.   "Hit and Run" is listed as by Gwen Owens twice (i.e. 2 different versions), and "You'd Better Wake Up" has Gwen Owens listed for the first version, and Telma (Hopkins) as the possible artist for the second version.  The second one follows the colon, just as Gwen Owens does.  Therefore, it must be a guess as to who the artist is, rather than the record company recipient of the recording.  I doubt that that was a misspelling of "Thelma" standing for Thelma Records.

I have the pictured tape.

There are two takes of Hit & Run by Gwen Owens.

 

One take of You Better Wake Up by Gwen Owens, and one by Telma Laverne