Just been looking at JM's site at the TMG's he has and noticed some 500's (as well as others) with solid centre, with or without ''sold in uk subject to etc''.

Which are the first issues ? are the 4 prong versions the first issues and when did the solids come in ?

Are there any references to the differences and stuff like print size versions anywhere ?

Nick

yeah there was a thread on here a few months back regarding the fonts used, the obvious thing was the "roundness" of the "G" in "TMG", can't remember exactly how it went but you should be able to search for the thread.

all 1st issue 500's should have "sold in the uk"text solid or push out centres thought push out more common untill i think its 67 when solid centres become the common type (this according to record collector )is true across the EMI range

The 'sold in the UK' text applies to EMI 45s pressed between 1964 and 1969.

We have been documenting all the variations we encounter in the last 4 years or so - as the Tamla Motown collector becomes even more complete and spark their enthusiasm with trying to acquire every variation.

UK PRICE GUIDE 2 in ARTIST order is out in the New Year and will cover all the variations we have come across. ie: Solid Center, 4 prong center. Sold in UK text, RCA and EMI press using the same TMG #, Picture Sleeves, PRS release etc etc. We shall also

endeavor to add year release dates, just trying to get the columns and spacing right at the moment. We may also include LPs into the guide listing also. Depends on how big that actually makes the guide, it is already twice as big as UK PRICE GUIDE 1

yeah there was a thread on here a few months back regarding the fonts used, the obvious thing was the "roundness" of the "G" in "TMG", can't remember exactly how it went but you should be able to search for the thread.

Correct.

Flat back G's are the original first releases.

Round back G's are later presses having the original release numbers.

It's a bit of a minefield, i'm not sure which of these is the first press, both have 4 prongs, sold in the UK text, and the flat back "G"

It's a bit of a minefield, i'm not sure which of these is the first press, both have 4 prongs, sold in the UK text, and the flat back "G"

As far as I'm concerned, BOTH of those are original first press releases. If I didn't already have it, and providing it was Mint (ish), I'd be happy to add it to my collection of original first press releases. But like I said, that's me, there may be collectors out there who are even more fussy than that.

By the way, I've forgotten what the embossed KT means in the middle of the four pronged centre on the one on the left?

As far as I'm concerned, BOTH of those are original first press releases. If I didn't already have it, and providing it was Mint (ish), I'd be happy to add it to my collection of original first press releases. But like I said, that's me, there may be collectors out there who are even more fussy than that.

By the way, I've forgotten what the embossed KT means in the middle of the four pronged centre on the one on the left?

I've always considered the one on the left to be the first pressing, with the one on the right being pressed for a visually better song title, though they are just thoughts, rather than anything 100% concrete.

Suppose this is the type of variation Johns Book will cover

Edited September 13, 201113 yr by julesp1905

I've always considered the one on the left to be the first pressing, with the one on the right being pressed for a visually better song title, though they are just thoughts, rather than anything 100% concrete.

Yes, I tend to agree with you, but only because of the raised KT on the left one.

Obviously you don't remember what it means either, otherwise you would have said something.

I'm sure somebody out there will remind us.

By the way, I've forgotten what the embossed KT means in the middle of the four pronged centre on the one on the left?

The 'KT' is a sales tax code which denotes the UK sales tax percentage. If it's not raised in the middle of the label, it's normally stamped into the run-out groove.

I think this is how it goes:

• ZT = April 1962 - November 1962

  
  

• PT = November 1962 - January 1963

  
  

• MT = January 1963 - July 1963

  
  

• KT = July 1963 - November 1968

  
  

• JT = December 68 - April 73

  
  

(info borrowed from Beatles/Stones collectors sites)

Edited September 13, 201113 yr by john s

The 'KT' is a sales tax code which denotes the UK sales tax percentage.

I think this is how it goes:

• ZT = April 1962 - November 1962

  
  

• PT = November 1962 - January 1963

  
  

• MT = January 1963 - July 1963

  
  

• KT = July 1963 - November 1968

  
  

• JT = December 68 - April 73

  
  

(info borrowed from Beatles/Stones collectors sites)

Thanks John.

So, the absence of embossed lettering of any kind signifies what, I wonder?

It's a bit of a minefield, i'm not sure which of these is the first press, both have 4 prongs, sold in the UK text, and the flat back "G"

Hi julesp1905

Here's a Green & White Demo of the record but it's the later released TMG761 but still as the flat back G ! - Ps - I've just listed this for sale on Ebay if anyone reading is interested ! https://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1558.l2649

Edited September 13, 201113 yr by Ray Copley

Thanks John.

So, the absence of embossed lettering of any kind signifies what, I wonder?

I've just dug out a pile of EMI 60's 45s, on Stateside, Columbia, MGM, Parlophone and HMV. Some are embossed in the middle of the label, others have the tax code stamped in the run-off. No logic that I can discern immediately.

The Decca 45s I've just looked at have the code printed on the label though.

Hi julesp1905

Here's The Demo of the record, It might help you to decide which is the first press ! - Ps - I've just listed it for sale on Ebay if anyone is interested ! https://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1558.l2649

That's not the same record though - that's the later issue, TMG 761 not TMG 584!

Edited September 13, 201113 yr by john s

I've just dug out a pile of EMI 60's 45s, on Stateside, Columbia, MGM, Parlophone and HMV. Some are embossed in the middle of the label, others have the tax code stamped in the run-off. No logic that I can discern immediately.

The Decca 45s I've just looked at have the code printed on the label though.

Suppose it's down to what blanks the EMI pressing plant was using at the time of the run. Only thing i can think of

Agreed, seems the most likely.

That's not the same record though - that's the later issue, TMG 761 not TMG 584!

Yes, but it's interesting that all the TMG Demos have the flat back G's, at least the red and whites and the green and whites do. Not so sure about the later black Demos?

I suppose if I had a complete run of the first one hundred TMG's as Mint issues with flat back G's AND the embossed KT, I'd be a happy man.

Edited September 13, 201113 yr by denbo

i'll be happy just to have all the 500 series (still 3 short) and they aint all mint either

also strange the list of tax codes states jt for 68-73 but i dont recolect seeing it on any motown singles infact i think they are all still stamped kt just checked and i've a chuck jackson (girls,girls,girls) thats enbosed KTJ (lable) and stamped kt in the run out a later supremes & four tops thats just got kj in the runout

Don't keep us in suspense Dave, what are the 3 TMG 500's your missing??

517 choker campbell 534 dorsey burnette 537 tony martin and tbh i know the price these fetch and wonder why, still thats the joy of collecting

Later black demo with rounded G

also info sheet issued with it

Thanks gogs.

We have been documenting all the variations we encounter in the last 4 years or so - as the Tamla Motown collector becomes even more complete and spark their enthusiasm with trying to acquire every variation.

UK PRICE GUIDE 2 in ARTIST order is out in the New Year and will cover all the variations we have come across. ie: Solid Center, 4 prong center. Sold in UK text, RCA and EMI press using the same TMG #, Picture Sleeves, PRS release etc etc. We shall also

endeavor to add year release dates, just trying to get the columns and spacing right at the moment. We may also include LPs into the guide listing also. Depends on how big that actually makes the guide, it is already twice as big as UK PRICE GUIDE 1

As it is a UK release guide it may be nice to spell "centre" the English way!

Edited September 14, 201113 yr by Rbman

Thanks to everyone who has contributed, very interesting reading. Look forward to JM's new book, as collectors we are all different and want different things from our collections,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but I guess we all have the same goal,,,,,,,,,,, to have things right !

Wherever I can I prefer a british release of a record if it exists, finding minty ones is becoming more and more difficult and that as with all records affects the prices,

ATB,

Nick

We have been documenting all the variations we encounter in the last 4 years or so - as the Tamla Motown collector becomes even more complete and spark their enthusiasm with trying to acquire every variation.

UK PRICE GUIDE 2 in ARTIST order is out in the New Year and will cover all the variations we have come across. ie: Solid Center, 4 prong center. Sold in UK text, RCA and EMI press using the same TMG #, Picture Sleeves, PRS release etc etc. We shall also

endeavor to add year release dates, just trying to get the columns and spacing right at the moment. We may also include LPs into the guide listing also. Depends on how big that actually makes the guide, it is already twice as big as UK PRICE GUIDE 1

To all those of you who asked - mine DEFINITELY won't be coming out now!