I've had this 10" Associated Acetate for a good few years and never got to the bottom of it. It's double sided - one side is titled Ooh Bop Sha Bam credited to Hill & Range the flip is blank and musically better, I'm convinced I've heard it before but can't place it  - I've tried to film both sides in the hope someone can shed a little light  - Apologies for the camera work I'm guessing the Bafta won't be in the post 

 

 

No idea mate,sounds defo blue eyed! Either way the a-side is nothing to shout about,but the b-side has got something going for it!

overall nice piece👍

2 minutes ago, Dobber said:

No idea mate,sounds defo blue eyed! Either way the a-side is nothing to shout about,but the b-side has got something going for it!

overall nice piece👍

Yeah the flip is certainly strongest but it doesn't sound like the same outfit??

4 hours ago, Agrail said:

Yeah the flip is certainly strongest but it doesn't sound like the same outfit??

 

Edited February 19Feb 19 by Simon T

14 minutes ago, Simon T said:

J.B.Williams - hurt no more

Thank you I know knowledge doesn't come easy or cheap!  I Can't see much on J B Williams? Do you know a label? was it a Hill & Range prod? I'd love to learn more on this it's baffled be for a while

sound files attributted to W.B.Willingham? -

1. don't wanna be hurt no more - Associated Recording Studios

2. I'd think it over twice - Dick Charles

Sam Fletcher ITIOT writer W.B.Willingham

 

Edited February 19Feb 19 by Simon T

4 hours ago, Agrail said:

 was it a Hill & Range prod? I'd love to learn more on this it's baffled be for a while

Screen Gems

Thank you Simon, it seems the known acetates on Associated  were 7" also. This 10" is certainly old (no scent left on the acetate) label looks right, perhaps the Willingham side was a test cut or saving materials ? Either way thank you for shedding some light it's much appreciated.

Seem to remember maria and Karl, rest his soul playing an acetate credited to a willingham, and saying that sharing a surname it made it particularly special to them. Could it be related? 

13 hours ago, Agrail said:

Thank you I know knowledge doesn't come easy or cheap!  (1)I Can't see much on J B Williams? Do you know a label? (2)Was it a Hill & Range prod? I'd love to learn more on this it's baffled me for a while.

(1) Maybe "J.B. Williams" was an alias used by singer/Songwriter J.B. Willingham?  He had been a singing member of The Pastels.  And, more pertinent, as a prolific Brill Building (Screen Gems-Columbia Music songwriter, he was likely using Associated Recording to record most of his demos, as it was only a couple streets (blocks) away.  He could have been just getting a demo of his own song recorded, for pitching to prospective artists or major record labels.  I can't place Williams' voice with Willingham's, as Dee Erwin (Ervin) was The Pastels' lead, and I don't remember hearing Willingham sing solo.  But the singer on the file above, singing "I'd Think it Over" had a very smooth, trained voice.  He could easily have been a member of The Pastels, who sang great 5-part harmony.  It could also be just one of Screen Gems' regular ad-hoc demo singers.

(2) IF the song was published by The Hill and Range Music Publishing Co., AND the recording project was a demo being recorded by that company for later marketing to record companies or individual singers, WITHOUT yet having any involvement with prospective clients, then I suppose you could call the demo recording "project" a "Hill and Range Production".  It seems like a strange way to refer to it.  It makes it seem as if you thought Hill and Range had its own record label (as a division of their company).  But "I'd Think it over had nothing to don wit Hill sand Range.  And the Soul song, "Don't Wanna Be Hurt No More" doesn't sound, at all like a Hill and Range (old-fashioned Tin Pan Alley-style) song.  I'd bet that that was a BMI song, and could easily have been another Screen Gems song, recorded a few years later.  I wouldn't have guessed that a major, like Screen Gems (Colpix (Columbia Pictures) would be so cheap, as to use the same ancient demo record 3 times!  Or, at least twice.  "Ooh Bop Sha Bam" was a Jazz standard written by Dizzy Gillespie.  Maybe this demo was first made by Willingham for his Pastels in 1956?  I looked at my Pastels' records on Mascot and Argo, and as I remembered, they never released a version of that song.  There WAS a Jazz vocal version, Even Billy Eckstine sang it.  So, maybe The Pastels sang that song in their repertoire for auditioning to get record label contracts before they signed with Mascot in 1955?  

9 hours ago, Simon T said:

Screen Gems

This makes sense, as J.B. Willingham wrote first for Aldon Music (Al Nevins/Don Kirschner), which was later bought out by Screen Gems-Columbia Music.  "Oh Bop Sha Bam", likely a '50s written and performed song, was probably first cut on this demo record as a one-sider, and maybe Associated gave a discount to Willingham on his recording, in 1964, to let them cut his new demo on the unused flip side.  I looked up J.B. Willingham on ASCAP, to see IF he ever got a song of his published by Hill and Range.  They have no record of one.  The credit to "W. B. Willingham" on Sam Fletcher's Tollie record was a printing error.  It should have read: "J. B. Willingham".  BMI website lists (correctly) J. B. (James) Willingham as the writer.

The other song, "Don't Wanna Be Hurt No More" was probably sung by a Screen Gems-Columbia songwriter or demo singer for a later project.  So they re-used this demo record.  It's got a much later sound, like 1966 or 1967.

Edited February 20Feb 20 by Robbk

5 hours ago, Geeselad said:

Seem to remember maria and Karl, rest his soul playing an acetate credited to a willingham, and saying that sharing a surname it made it particularly special to them. Could it be related? 

African-Americans didn't make up traditional English surnames like "Willingham".  Usually those surnames came to African Americans' families from their ancestors having been slaves on British or former British, later American landowners' plantations.  So Doris Duke could have shared a surname with former Pastel, J.B. Willingham, by marrying former Cadillacs group member, Gus Willingham.  As both The Pastels and The Cadillacs were New York groups, maybe Gus and James were cousins.  Or, maybe they were simply both descendants of different slaves who had lived on the same plantation, or 2 different plantations owned by related owners named Willingham.  In any case, they are at least loosely connected by having a surname that started from a town or village in Cambridgeshire, or in Lincolnshire.  And thus, they'd be, at least, connected in that same way, with English families whose surname originated from their ancestors having come from those places.  Your friends might even be related by blood to those R&B singers, IF their ancestors were related to those plantation owners.  We all know how THAT sort of thing happened.  Did Karl have any American Colonial plantation owners in his family history?  

Edited February 20Feb 20 by Robbk

I can only find a 7" Acetate for the J.B. Willingham it is on Associated - It's strange they would also cut Don't wanna be hurt no more  a 10" with a different B side but maybe it was a test cut or a cost saving thing?

28 minutes ago, Agrail said:

I can only find a 7" Acetate for the J.B. Willingham it is on Associated - It's strange they would also cut Don't wanna be hurt no more  a 10" with a different B side but maybe it was a test cut or a cost saving thing?

My guess is that it was a test, AND a cost-saving measure.  And it was recorded 2 or 3 years after "I'd Think It Over".  Is there a date anywhere on the record?  Does the 10 incher have a date on it?

3 hours ago, Robbk said:

Does the 10 incher have a date on it?

Sadly no date. As it never got a release maybe it was touted around for a while?

 

4 hours ago, Agrail said:

I can only find a 7" Acetate for the J.B. Willingham it is on Associated - It's strange they would also cut Don't wanna be hurt no more  a 10" with a different B side but maybe it was a test cut or a cost saving thing?

did this scan come from tinternet?

1 hour ago, Simon T said:

did this scan come from tinternet?

Yeah, http://northernsoulrecords.com/item/JB_Willingham_-_Don't_Wanna_Be_Hurt_No_More/NSR1418

22 hours ago, Agrail said:

Yeah, http://northernsoulrecords.com/item/JB_Willingham_-_Don't_Wanna_Be_Hurt_No_More/NSR1418

Think this is the disc Maria and Karl had or another cut of it. If I remember right, it came from a west mids collector who had an indiscretion and this was all that was left of it after his missus caught him, as she couldn't snap it!

24 minutes ago, Geeselad said:

Think this is the disc Maria and Karl had or another cut of it. If I remember right, it came from a west mids collector who had an indiscretion and this was all that was left of it after his missus caught him, as she couldn't snap it!

That image and website is mine, and I did sell it onto Carl W. I am from the West Midlands (Wolves), but it was just a simple sale. The "indiscretion" and story that follows is not me though.

I do think I know who you are referring to, but I won't name him as it he has nothing to do with this record.

Cheers

Mick

 

PS

There is also an 8 inch acetate labelled much as my own was, also credited to JBW and DWBHNM. Think it belonged, or belongs to Andy Rix. Not sure if it's single sided.

Edited February 21Feb 21 by Mick Holdsworth

Cheers Mick

 

13 hours ago, Mick Holdsworth said:

That image and website is mine, and I did sell it onto Carl W. I am from the West Midlands (Wolves), but it was just a simple sale. The "indiscretion" and story that follows is not me though.

I do think I know who you are referring to, but I won't name him as it he has nothing to do with this record.

Cheers

Mick

 

PS

There is also an 8 inch acetate labelled much as my own was, also credited to JBW and DWBHNM. Think it belonged, or belongs to Andy Rix. Not sure if it's single sided.

I do apologize, I have obviously mixed two stories into one, here both relating to acetates. My humblest apologies I didn't intend any offence. 

9 hours ago, Geeselad said:

I do apologize, I have obviously mixed two stories into one, here both relating to acetates. My humblest apologies I didn't intend any offence. 

Absolutely fine, no offence taken.

It's a 10" acetate ..still got it here

Andy

29 minutes ago, Andy Rix said:

It's a 10" acetate ..still got it here

Andy

That's the one, I remember you posting it here years ago, I just got the size wrong. I see it is uncredited too, something else I remembered incorrectly.

I thought it was credited as well. .. when I got it out obviously realised it wasn't