Tunes Suitable For Making Ashtrays Out Of

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Ha Ha, Never went for the shooting up thing, always thought it was a bit heavy !! But in your ear !!! Now that is Hardcore !

True, true...maybe better stick to the tablets ...or some Otex drops...

Edited May 31, 2007 by Jerry Hipkiss

[Guest Black Gold of the Sun]

The Superman comics I used to read as a child occasionally featured a race of aliens who are the opposite of everything we take for granted. In the minds of these perverse creatures down is up, right is wrong, ugliness is seen as beautiful and incredibly bad taste is prized over good - a complete mirror image of reality in fact.

These grotesques inhabit a totally square planet called 'Bizarro World', and on this distant planet - where everything rational, sensible (and soulful) is completely reversed - the Carstairs "It Really Hurts Me Girl" is considered to be "...the worst record ever played on the scene"

Thank God for the voice of reason ! yet another thread on here extolling the virtues of POP CRAP over decent soul music.The site is called soul source.

[Pete S]

Thank God for the voice of reason ! yet another thread on here extolling the virtues of POP CRAP over decent soul music.The site is called soul source.

There's soul crap as well as pop crap, Carstairs is top of the soul crap charts, closely followed by Larry Houston

Edited May 31, 2007 by Pete-S

[Barry]

There's soul crap as well as pop crap, Carstairs is top of the soul crap charts, what you don't like it when people like different records to you or something?

I think being positive helps a little Pete, talk about summat you like instead mate.

[Pete S]

I think being positive helps a little Pete, talk about summat you like instead mate.

Barry I was replying to someone who made a comment to a post of mine, I am allowed to do that aren't I?

[Ste Henderson]

I have to agree the Carstairs 3rd rate singers and utter tripe!! but the one singer that makes me squirm is (sorry) Esther Phillips and when somebody plays "just say goodbye" thats what i want to do...steve

[oldsteve woomble]

The one that always has me reaching for the sick bag is Jan Jones 'Independent Woman'. Yuk.

[Guest mel brat]

Why don't you just attempt to explain what it is that you like about this record and exactly why? ... Though being a superior being i.e. someone who attended the Mecca, you'll probably put it down to an ex-Wiganite just not understanding proper soul music, right?

WHAT I LIKE about Carstairs is that it's a bona fide SOUL RECORD with genuinely involved lyrics and superb vocals, (not to mention the fantastic drumming), and not a bloody awful POP TUNE with a beat! Why is that so difficult to understand?

Besides which, at the time of it's first plays in 1974, nobody regarded it as anything other than a superior NORTHERN Soul record, and before I'd actually heard it, everyone I spoke to - DJs included - were going wild over it as the best thing they'd heard in years, and when I finally heard the record I felt exactly the same. (This was before the Northern scene "split", and before I began to attend the Mecca regularly)

Carstairs - along with the Montclairs etc.- was definitely one of the reasons I did make a point of going to Blackpool more often, particularly as Wigan was increasingly falling back on the likes of "Hawaii Five-O", Gary Lewis & the Playboys and similar damned awful pop tunes. If Carstairs is worse than tripe like "Footsie" and other so-called novelty and pop records ever played on the scene, then yes, I'd have to conclude that your reasoning and listening habits are most definitely bizarre!

Edited May 31, 2007 by mel brat

[Pete S]

Reading your opinions so far so far, I'd be forced to conclude - yes! WHAT I LIKE about Carstairs is that it's a bona fide SOUL RECORD with genuinely involved lyrics and superb vocals, (not to mention the fantastic drumming), and not a bloody POP TUNE! Is that so difficult to understand?

Besides which, at the time of it's first plays in 1974, nobody regarded it as anything other than a superior NORTHERN Soul record, and before I'd actually heard it, everyone I spoke to was going wild over it as the best thing they'd heard in years, and I felt the same. (This was before the scene "split" and before I began to attend the Mecca regularly, incidently)

However, Carstairs - along with the Montclairs etc.- was definitely one of the reasons I did make a point of going to Blackpool, particularly when Wigan played "Hawaii Five-O", Gary Lewis & the Playboys etc. If Carstairs is worse than tripe like "Footsie" and other so-called novelty and pop records played on the scene, then your reasoning and listening habits are definitely suspect!

The "Bizarro World of Northern Soul"?

Those records that you quote are terrible records. But so is The Montclairs in my opinion, it's a messy ragbag of a record. Having said that, I love Hey You Don't Fight It and wait For me (if it's the same group) but that mid 70's sound to me is like fingers being scratched down a blackboard and for every hawaii 5 0 you throw into the argument about Wigan = pop I'll throw you back an Inspirations or a Lou Pride.

If you read back over the Black Music magazine of the time - or the 20 odd page article I wrote about it which is still up on the web somewhere - you'll find that your statement is totally wrong and most people didn't agree with the playing of that type of record. Meanwhile if you say something like Bobby Franklin - Ladies Choice - I love that - Towaway Zone - fantastic - Mel britt etc, love all those

[oldsteve woomble]

Towaway Zone - fantastic

Nice 1. CHOOOOON!!!

Waste of a post really, but i just had to agree.........

[Guest mel brat]

I have to agree the Carstairs 3rd rate singers and utter tripe!! but the one singer that makes me squirm is (sorry) Esther Phillips and when somebody plays "just say goodbye" thats what i want to do...steve

Please inform us whom you regard as a "first rate" singer, just so we have a comparison. Thanks.

[Bazza]

Please inform us whom you regard as a "first rate" singer, just so we have a comparison. Thanks.

there are many first rate vocals on thousands of tunes ......sadly none of em are in the Carstairs

Bazza

[Guest mel brat]

Those records that you quote are terrible records. But so is The Montclairs in my opinion, it's a messy ragbag of a record. Having said that, I love Hey You Don't Fight It and wait For me (if it's the same group) but that mid 70's sound to me is like fingers being scratched down a blackboard and for every hawaii 5 0 you throw into the argument about Wigan = pop I'll throw you back an Inspirations or a Lou Pride.

If you read back over the Black Music magazine of the time - or the 20 odd page article I wrote about it which is still up on the web somewhere - you'll find that your statement is totally wrong and most people didn't agree with the playing of that type of record. Meanwhile if you say something like Bobby Franklin - Ladies Choice - I love that - Towaway Zone - fantastic - Mel britt etc, love all those

If "most people" didn't agree with the playing of these (modern) records, then why were they so popular on the scene??? I suspect you mean "most people at WIGAN" didn't agree, but who cares? Remember also that "Ladies Choice" etc. was the one that Wigan supposedly "banned" as too funky, not Carstairs. Also even Lou Pride and the Inspirations were not Wigan "first-plays"! The playing of too much blatant pop music was killing any Soul-credibility the scene had left after the Nosmo King and "Footsie" debacle, as you well know, and it only got worse after 1975.

Finally it appears to me that your opposition to Carstairs is really a personal vendetta against the emergence of the whole Seventies/Modern rare Soul scene, in which case there is no point arguing, as it's here to stay!

Edited May 31, 2007 by mel brat

[Guest mel brat]

there are many first rate vocals on thousands of tunes ......sadly none of em are in the Carstairs

Bazza

Name a few of your faves. We have time.

[Bazza]

Name a few of your faves. We have time.

Mel.....what a person likes or dislikes is a personal thing , you very often can't put your finger on why you like a tune....I realize this because I can say to the misses "love this tune" she might think its tripe......why ?? who knows, if some one likes a tune I think is crap...I wont argue....I say its just not to my taste..thats it end of it

Bazza

[Guest soultan]

Seventies/Modern rare Soul scene, it's here to stay!

TRUE

and we can all be friends too

[Pete S]

Finally it appears to me that your opposition to Carstairs is really a personal vendetta against the emergence of the whole Seventies/Modern rare Soul scene, in which case there is no point arguing, as it's here to stay!

Mel - it's 33 years later - does it really matter that I don't like The Carstairs?

[Guest]

There are a number of records i dislike so much that when i see copies i buy them snap em and throw em in the bin

Derek

[Ste Henderson]

Please inform us whom you regard as a "first rate" singer, just so we have a comparison. Thanks.

first rate singers hmmm!!! got to be in order of preference 1-dee dee sharp 2-tammi terrell 3-general johnson 4-clyde mcphatter 5-carolyn crawford 6-emanuel lasky 7-linda jones 8-maxine brown 9-marie knight(perhaps marie a little bit higher) 10 jackie wilson.....sorry dont mean to offend but esther phillips voice makes my teeth grate, i think she was sucking on helium when she recorded (a bit like donald duck)ha ha!!!!

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

first rate singers hmmm!!! got to be in order of preference 1-dee dee sharp 2-tammi terrell 3-general johnson 4-clyde mcphatter 5-carolyn crawford 6-emanuel lasky 7-linda jones 8-maxine brown 9-marie knight(perhaps marie a little bit higher) 10 jackie wilson.....sorry dont mean to offend but esther phillips voice makes my teeth grate, i think she was sucking on helium when she recorded (a bit like donald duck)ha ha!!!!

I'd never have a pop at someone for not liking Esther, because her unique style has never been to everyone's taste. But as singers go, there are few who are more 'first rate'. She influenced a generation of young female singers in the 1950s, simply by dint of the fact that she was one of the first R & B gals who did not come from a jazz background. Some of the records she made in the 60s were sublime beyond belief. Even her 70s Kudu albums have their fair share of gems. While, towards the end of her life, her version of Loleatta Holloway's "Cry To Me" rates alongside Loleatta's and may even be better. But if you don't like her, that's fair enough - hers is a voice that you either take to or you don't...

...mind you, the same could be said about several members of your top 10, so I suppose it's 'horses for courses' really.

Anyway, here are 10 Esther Phillips Atlantic records that no collection should be without (unless, of course, it's the collection of someone who doesn't get on with her voice):

1. Some Things You Never Get Used To

2. Let Me Know When It's Over

3. I'm In Love

4. Crazy Love

5. Hello Walls

6. I'm Sorry

7. Just Say Goodbye

8. Set Me Free

9. Somebody Else Is taking My Place

10. I Saw Me

...

[matty s]

Agree with dean barlow but......... barbara dane..great record what the fuks up with ya.

Got to agree with you there andy as you no i always ask you to play it top fuking sound

[Guest mel brat]

Mel - it's 33 years later - does it really matter that I don't like The Carstairs?

No, you're perfectly entitled to choose what you like or not, but do you HAVE to always be so spiteful and vindictive in your condemnation? Smashing records up with a hammer? I mean, really...!

It's patently obvious then that the Carstairs record is/was NOT the "worst record ever played on the scene", which is the statement I objected to in the first place.

final word to Ian Dewhirst:

"Jesus Christ, man, if you want everything on one record, then this record's got it. The most passionate vocal, scintillating beat, brilliant strings, produced by George Kerr, the f*****g archdeacon of Northern Soul! Everything compressed into this one record...."

Ian Dewhirst, DJ at Cleethorpes, on The Carstairs

interview djhistory.com

https://www.djhistory.com/djhistory/archive...interview_id=37

[Guest mel brat]

Mel.....what a person likes or dislikes is a personal thing , you very often can't put your finger on why you like a tune....I realize this because I can say to the misses "love this tune" she might think its tripe......why ?? who knows, if some one likes a tune I think is crap...I wont argue....I say its just not to my taste..thats it end of it

Bazza

Thanks, that's a perfectly reasonable reply. As long as we don't all go around smashing up each other's record collections with a hammer, like some comic book Mighty Thor, we'll all get on fine. Let's have some sense and tolerance in these debates before we all lose the plot completely.

Edited June 1, 2007 by mel brat

[Guest mel brat]

I'd never have a pop at someone for not liking Esther, because her unique style has never been to everyone's taste. But as singers go, there are few who are more 'first rate'. She influenced a generation of young female singers in the 1950s, simply by dint of the fact that she was one of the first R & B gals who did not come from a jazz background. Some of the records she made in the 60s were sublime beyond belief. Even her 70s Kudu albums have their fair share of gems. While, towards the end of her life, her version of Loleatta Holloway's "Cry To Me" rates alongside Loleatta's and may even be better. But if you don't like her, that's fair enough - hers is a voice that you either take to or you don't...

...mind you, the same could be said about several members of your top 10, so I suppose it's 'horses for courses' really.

Anyway, here are 10 Esther Phillips Atlantic records that no collection should be without (unless, of course, it's the collection of someone who doesn't get on with her voice):

1. Some Things You Never Get Used To

2. Let Me Know When It's Over

3. I'm In Love

4. Crazy Love

5. Hello Walls

6. I'm Sorry

7. Just Say Goodbye

8. Set Me Free

9. Somebody Else Is taking My Place

10. I Saw Me

...

She'd be a legend in my house if she'd only ever recorded "Home Is Where The Hatred Is" which just gets better (and more chilling) with age, and just to awkward I love "Just Say Goodbye" too!

P.S. Is "Some Things You Never Get Used To" the same song as by Irma Thomas/Juanita Williams?

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

P.S. Is "Some Things You Never Get Used To" the same song as by Irma Thomas/Juanita Williams?

Yes, it is the very same Van McCoy song. I think Esther may have done it first, too, although I think that hers and Irma's may have made it onto the market at around the same time. It's one of her finest and most restrained performances,and a brilliant slice of Big City Soul. There's nothing wrong with Irma's and Juanita's versions, either...

[Pete S]

final word to Ian Dewhirst:

"Jesus Christ, man, if you want everything on one record, then this record's got it. The most passionate vocal, scintillating beat, brilliant strings, produced by George Kerr, the f*****g archdeacon of Northern Soul! Everything compressed into this one record...."

Ian Dewhirst, DJ at Cleethorpes, on The Carstairs

no wonder he disappeared off into the world of disco..

[Guest rachel]

But going back to the question - Ashtray material for me is 'looking for a woman" - rubbish !!!

With you there, I dislike this so much I can't even remember who it's by! (assume I'm thinking of the same track - "looking for a woman, way over town.. blah blah, she's got more red all around her head".. or summat

[Pete S]

With you there, I dislike this so much I can't even remember who it's by! (assume I'm thinking of the same track - "looking for a woman, way over town.. blah blah, she's got more red all around her head".. or summat

The Brooks Brothers - anyone know of these were the guys from The Impressions?

Possibly does have daft lyrics but what a backing track.

[Guest rachel]

The Brooks Brothers - anyone know of these were the guys from The Impressions?

Possibly does have daft lyrics but what a backing track.

Daft lyrics would be forgiveable if not for the crap vocals, I guess the backing track is catchy enough but I really can't stand the record.. it just sounds plodding and whiney to me.