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Jimmy Raye --- Philly Dog Around The World

Any tips on discerning the original KKC copy from the boots?

Please, thank you!

Col

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Jimmy Raye  --- Philly Dog Around The World

Any tips on discerning the original KKC copy from the boots?

Please, thank you!

Col

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I've got the original sat here in front of me, run out groove is S - 002B.

Label says JIMMIE RAYE KKC HITCH 'N' POST JODAX (BMI) TIME 2:35 PHILLY DOG AROUND THE WORLD (RAYE)

If you need a scan, let me know, but it'll take a few minutes and a bit of hassle hooking the scanner up. biggrin.gif

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safest way is look for the pressing stamp as its so hard in a do to see how good the label colour is,the stamp is dead small mind you,that said never seen one for years,this must go for a few quid now,

a truly great northern soul record IMO.

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Thanks guys.  On my copy the matrix number is not stamped but scratched in.  I guess that makes it a boot then?

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The stamp in the run out groove mentioned on the original Colin is small and looks like "pes".... that's what you have to look for....

Booted twice.... a light blue label.... or a dark blue label which looks the same as original.... this has no stamp and S - 002 - B on PDATW side.... S - 002 - A on the other.... has all details on label that James mentioned....

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The stamp in the run out groove mentioned on the original Colin is small and looks like "pes".... that's what you have to look for....

Booted twice.... a light blue label.... or a dark blue label which looks the same as original.... this has no stamp and S - 002 - B on PDATW side.... S - 002 - A on the other.... has all details on label that James mentioned....

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Are you saying mine is a booty? I paid quite a bit of dosh to Shifty for mine. biggrin.gif

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Are you saying mine is a booty? I paid quite a bit of dosh to Shifty for mine. biggrin.gif

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Not if it has the stamp James.... it was described to me as being quite small and looks like "pes" although hard to make out clearly....

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The originals have the run out groove with the B on the A side, and the B side run out groove on the A side. I can't believe I doubted my bootleg detecting fingers for even one second! biggrin.gif

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Not if it has the stamp James.... it was described to me as being quite small and looks like "pes" although hard to make out clearly....

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Mine is infront of me, it is original, but i see no pes. Wanna fight over it? biggrin.gif

Edited by JTrouble

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The originals have the run out groove with the B on the A side, and the B side run out groove on the A side. I can't believe I  doubted my bootleg detecting fingers for even one second! biggrin.gif

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So do the boots.... S - 002 - B on PDATW side.... S - 002 - A on the other....

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Mine is infront of me, it is original, but i see no pes. Wanna fight over it? :lol:

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:huh::lol: only what I was told some years back.... do remember at the time that there was a debate as to some having "pes" stamp and some not and both being originals ph34r.gif .... someone more knowledgable than me might have something more definitive to look for.... anyone....

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Time for the scanner to come out....

BTW my copy came from the states. biggrin.gif

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Think I still have a scan of the boot label somewhere in a "boot scans" file.... off to Windows Explorer to check.... will post up for comparison James....

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Think I still have a scan of the boot label somewhere in a "boot scans" file.... off to Windows Explorer to check.... will post up for comparison James....

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Here we go you schlag! I can see a very fast second round knock out coming! biggrin.gif

gallery_663_22_36775.jpg

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Think I still have a scan of the boot label somewhere in a "boot scans" file.... off to Windows Explorer to check.... will post up for comparison James....

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Found it....

Not the best of scans.... looks dull.... but left "larger" to view when clicking image.... might try to "brighten" up and re-post....

Edited by vaultofsouler

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Not the best of scans.... looks dull.... but left "larger" to view when clicking image.... might try to "brighten" up and re-post....

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See if this is better to see....

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If that's a boot, it looks like a pretty good one.

Mine is 100% legit. It came from the States, was sold to a collector by Shifty, the same collector then sold it back to him, and it found it's way to me.

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If that's a boot, it looks like a pretty good one.

Mine is 100% legit. It came from the States, was sold to a collector by Shifty, the same collector then sold it back to him, and it found it's way to me.

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That's why the "pes" looking stamp was mentioned to me.... just phoned my mate to see it's mentioned in Manship's Boot Guide.... page scanned and sent to me.... here's what that says....

----------------

RAYE, JIMMIE PHILLY DOG AROUND THE WORLD KKC2

JUST CAN'T TAKE IT NO MORE

"Boolegged twice, one on light blue label. Also on a counterfeit copy with a good looking dark blue label. Original can be noticed by the 'richer' blue of the label. Plus the smallest of matrix stamps that says 'pes' (or something similar). Look for the mark.

----------------

JM refers to the "pes" I was told about (????).... do know a few got stung with this boot.... like you say.... does look "very good" when compared biggrin.gif ....

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the colour looks right on both of them,!!

told you hard to tell,any pressing plant stamp to be seen ????

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Can't say for the boot as only got the scan to look at.... only this small "pes" matrix mark I've mentioned and to which JM refers (????) is all that is "supposed" to be there.... but like James says, he got his of Shifty who's very reliable and that copy doesn't have it.... so who knows what's supposed to be there.... the plot thickens....

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Mine is infront of me, it is original, but i see no pes. Wanna fight over it? :lol:

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Don't let Mark get in close, James!! :huh:

He'll give you a nipple burn....he's known for it! ph34r.gif

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Can't say for the boot as only got the scan to look at.... only this small "pes" matrix mark I've mentioned and to which JM refers (????) is all that is "supposed" to be there.... but like James says, he got his of Shifty who's very reliable and that copy doesn't have it.... so who knows what's supposed to be there.... the plot thickens....

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Plot thickens? I'll give you a bloody thick ear if you carry on with this nonsense! biggrin.gif

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Plot thickens? I'll give you a bloody thick ear if you carry on with this nonsense! :D

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:D:lol:

Well I think it thickens James old boy :lol: .... cause it looks like Manship could be wrong :huh: .... never !!!! I hear one and all saying ph34r.gif ....

From your scan the label looks the "richer" blue he mentions.... certainly looks more so than the boot scan.... this whole "pes" thing could be bollox.... means that if people have used this to look for on a copy then they are either missing the chance of a real one if not there or.... even worse.... selling one on as a boot cause it ain't there when it could in fact be real....

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:lol:   :lol:

Well I think it thickens James old boy :huh: .... cause it looks like Manship could be wrong ph34r.gif .... never !!!! I hear one and all saying :D ....

From your scan the label looks the "richer" blue he mentions.... certainly looks more so than the boot scan.... this whole "pes" thing could be bollox.... means that if people have used this to look for on a copy then they are either missing the chance of a real one if not there or.... even worse.... selling one on as a boot cause it ain't there when it could in fact be real....

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I had the chance once to compare a boot that I had in my sales box to an original, that John Poole from notts has. The labels are almost identical, think the KKC slightly differs in size, larger on the boot if i remember. and yes there is a stamp in the run out grooves on the original, looks a bit like two circles joined together, if i'm correct...........Great record.

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I've got the original sat here in front of me, run out groove is S - 002B.

Label says JIMMIE RAYE  KKC    HITCH 'N' POST JODAX (BMI)  TIME 2:35  PHILLY DOG AROUND THE WORLD (RAYE)

If you need a scan, let me know, but it'll take a few minutes and a bit of hassle hooking the scanner up. :huh:

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James,

If you measure 1.5cm to the left of S - 002B there should be an 8mm long stamp. All it will look like is a block of stamped dots. There will be NO visible letters in this stamp, NO 'pes'. Bring it along to the next Dome & compare it if you want.....Ady

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I can see where the 'pes' bit comes from now. If you go one hundred & eighty degrees round from S - 002 B there is a tiny mark about 2mm in size. I've just had a look under a magnifyer & the letters could resemble something like 'pes', remembering it's only 2mm.

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Even the experts can get it wrong, I once was offered a Jimmy Raye that the guy had bought off Sam as an original - it wasn't. Sadly, if it hasn't got the stamp that Ady mentions then it's a boot.

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Simon Soussain did about 20 titles made to look as original as possible. I met him in LA in 1974 and he tried to fool me they were originals but they all had the same mark in the run out grooves which I remember as Pb but it could have been something else. I told everyone in the UK they were boots but they still bought them.

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Simon Soussain did about 20 titles made to look as original as possible. I met him in LA in 1974 and he tried to fool me they were originals but they all had the same mark in the run out grooves which I remember as Pb but it could have been something else. I told everyone in the UK they were boots but they still bought them.

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It is P.B., I've seen two, one was a George Blackwell, pressed on vinyl like the original with moulded label (with the ubiquitous Mick Derry name written on the label, I bet he bought it off Pep as an original), I paid someone £400 for that but got my money back - he had no idea it was a bootleg. I've also seen a Dave Newman demo which looks just like the original, vinyl press, and also I think the same guy did the Anderson brothers but that was done 3 times. Possibly there is a Billy Prophet vinyl boot as well. When they subsequently pressed george Blackwell et al at Monarch a few months later, several of those had P.B. in the run off but they were easy to tell as they were on styrene.

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I can see where the 'pes' bit comes from now. If you go one hundred & eighty degrees round from S - 002 B there is a tiny mark about 2mm in size. I've just had a look under a magnifyer & the letters could resemble something like 'pes', remembering it's only 2mm.

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Thank f*** for that Tommy :lol: .... beginning to think I was on my own on this "pes" thing.... I say "pes" because that's what I was told a good few years back :huh: .... was a bit gob-smacked when the page from JM's guide that was e-mailed to me suggested same.... i.e. "pes".... appears that's what it must look like no matter what it is :lol: ....

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This is where I have a distinct advantage over you lot, I have a copy in a nice shade of light blue :huh:

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If you soak your pale blue copy in bleach for 5 minutes you will have a unique white demo! :lol:

I did anyway..

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Even the experts can get it wrong, I once was offered a Jimmy Raye that the guy had bought off Sam as an original - it wasn't.  Sadly, if it hasn't got the stamp that Ady mentions then it's a boot.

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Exactly what I said earlier Pete regarding what "shoul be" and what "is" there as regards what "buyers" and "sellers" look for....

SWONS....

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Exactly what I said earlier Pete regarding what "shoul be" and what "is" there as regards what "buyers" and "sellers" look for....

SWONS....

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Good rant on KTF earlier Mark.

Agree with you as well :huh:

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Simon Soussain did about 20 titles made to look as original as possible. I met him in LA in 1974 and he tried to fool me they were originals but they all had the same mark in the run out grooves which I remember as Pb but it could have been something else. I told everyone in the UK they were boots but they still bought them.

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The "pb" bit Ady is what appears on a lot of boots of various choons.... apparently something to do with the bootleggers/counterfieter's name.... i.e. "prick" "bollock" or whatever he's called.... you ought to put "ac" on your "original" Kent stuff Ady :huh: .... to show it's yours mate, and not a "copy" of your stuff like some of the "white label 45" or "CD" things I've seen going about :lol: ....

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It is P.B., I've seen two, one was a George Blackwell, pressed on vinyl like the original with moulded label (with the ubiquitous Mick Derry name written on the label, I bet he bought it off Pep as an original), I paid someone £400 for that but got my money back - he had no idea it was a bootleg.  I've also seen a Dave Newman demo which looks just like the original, vinyl press, and also I think the same guy did the Anderson brothers but that was done 3 times.  Possibly there is a Billy Prophet vinyl boot as well. When they subsequently pressed george Blackwell et al at Monarch a few months later, several of those had P.B. in the run off but they were easy to tell as they were on styrene.

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Like I replied to before reading this Pete.... "PB" is synominous with the "boots" he (she) did....

I know a few peeps that thought "Atlantic" based stuff like "Atco", etc., were of a similar ilk.... i.e. the AT that's "scratched" on them.... thought this was "initials" before they new otherwise.... the "age" of the bootlegger EH !!!!....

Edited by vaultofsouler

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Good rant on KTF earlier Mark.

Agree with you as well  :D

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Had to say it as I see Pete.... or should I say "know" it.... t'was the first post on there for about nearly 2 weeks :lol: ....

Saw your 1st one today since about 5-6 weeks ago.... made me think.... "he still reads this shit like me" :D:P:huh::lol: ....

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Had to say it as I see Pete.... or should I say "know" it.... t'was the first post on there for about nearly 2 weeks :D ....

Saw your 1st one today since about 5-6 weeks ago.... made me think.... "he still reads this shit like me" :lol:   :P   :huh:   :lol: ....

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I just popped back to see what was going on to be honest...I just didn't have time to wade through all the off topics anymore...might get back into the swing after the weekend maybe.

What you doing anyway, I'm jsut sat here waiting for the missus to get out of the shower :D

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I just popped back to see what was going on to be honest...I just didn't have time to wade through all the off topics anymore...might get back into the swing after the weekend maybe.

What you doing anyway, I'm jsut sat here waiting for the missus to get out of the shower  :lol:

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You dirty bar stool :D .... I've just "logged on" after having a couple of bevvies after work.... now realising I'm starving and so I'm gonna walk away from my PC soon to order some sort of "hot food from asia way" :huh: .... if you get me :lol: ....

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