Well find myself writing this wondering what peoples take is on the following-: I saw a record on Ebay by a Renowned Motown/Tamla Soul seller and proceeded to ask him about the record (( SATINTONES - GOING TO THE THE HOP / MOTOR CITY - TAMLA 54026 Stripes )) anyway afer a couple of emails and questions like you do , Vinyl, whats in the dead wax ect , it seemed all ok, so i made a offer of £170.00 which he accepted and he removed the 45 from Ebay ect , then i paid via Paypal , record duly turned up rec del and as soon as i opened it , ** Even from the first glance it was clear it was NOT ORIG and a repress thats before i took it out the sleeve, the paper quality was thin poor , (( on Ebay it looked fine but could only see the label )) but as i slipped it out th sleeve it was clearly NEW VINYL & BEVELLED EDGES which is the REPRESS/BOOT from 70/80t's ** So i contacted him and he said i sold it in good faith (( remember he;s a renowned MOTOWN SELLER ect )) i was duped !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so i asked for a REFUND either £170.00 Back or as a repress boot worth £5-£10 take that off, and even offered to pay the relist fees ** THIS WAS NOT ADVERTIZED AS REPRESS but must of known ** HE OFFERED ME £70.00 BACK ????? WHAT!!!!!! ** I then opened up a PAYPAL DISPUTE which closed as it was delivered and NOT about Quality ??? i am somewhat dismayed this SELLER (( Who i ain't named , clearly knew it was not orig but knew it was a BOOT/REPRESS )) took the money in thinking i thought it was original after all thats why i asked , alas he has NOT answered back since !!! and has lots of nice stuff onEbay , NOT A HAPPY CHAPPY and somewhat dismayed at a Fellow Collector/Seller - wondered what people thought abut even it it was a geniune mistake why not offer money back !!! - djgilly - Dave Gilman .....

Name & Shame the pillock!

Name & Shame the pillock!

Pity sad i am just saddened to get that sort of response , we all make mistakes, but it seems ** THIS WAS AN EASYSPOT ON HIS BEHALF - Not to know it was a BOOT/REPRESS even thou he denies it - but why not refund as per what i asked ?? ummmmmmmm !! djgilly

Well out of order, but surely this falls under item is not as described I had the same problem and got my money back and postage.

Moral of the story, don't make offers out side of Ebay where you cant leave feedback.

Feedback that's it bid and win more of his stuff and call him the swain king count that he is.

Edited July 16, 200816 yr by Prophonics 2029

THIS WAS NOT ADVERTIZED AS REPRESS but must of known ** HE OFFERED ME £70.00 BACK ????? WHAT!!!!!! ** I then opened up a PAYPAL DISPUTE which closed as it was delivered and NOT about Quality ??? i am somewhat dismayed this SELLER (( Who i ain't named , clearly knew it was not orig but knew it was a BOOT/REPRESS )) took the money in thinking i thought it was original after all thats why i asked , alas he has NOT answered back since !!! and has lots of nice stuff onEbay ,

If it was me I would name & shame, you have tried other options and not had your money refunded.

Because you have not 'named' the seller, it makes people wonder who it is and can tar honest genuine sellers with the same brush!

regards

paul

Yes is he in the UK or US makes me worried about buying Motown now.

Well out of order, but surely this falls under item is not as described I had the same problem and got my money back and postage.

Moral of the story, don't make offers out side of Ebay where you cant leave feedback.

Feedback that's it bid and win more of his stuff and call him the swain king count that he is.

Thanx 4 the reply -: Yeah !! i know offers outside Ebay but i only do this with people on ocassions and with somewhat reliable sellers as a rule, but did not expect this off this particuliar Seller hence thought it was OKEH !!! pity as he is quite well known i believe, thus why i am dismayed at the response, its simple what i'd do myself !! but then a Experienced Seller collector myself i would not of accepted such a price for what is a Boot/Repress..... djgilly

if you agree a buy it now price on an ebay item then get the seller to add the buy it now to eaby item and then purchase it through ebay

sounds like a **** though to me

Yes is he in the UK or US makes me worried about buying Motown now.

Yes he is in the UK and to be honest he looks by all accounts genuine and iv'e no doubts about the UK motown 45'S he has up indeed some of the US Stuff as well , its just i know in particuliar the EARLY MOTOWN/TAMLA STRIPES 45's most were Repressed on a cheap type paper label (( Easy tell )) and the Vinyl is bendy & Bevelled on the Edges , but as a seller of this stuff HE MUST OF KNOWN THAT ??? and he has some good UK 45's hence i don't want to completely TRASH HS REPUTATION, but my beef is whats the problem with a refund ???? on a Honest mistake if thats the case, if you look you;ll see on Ebay UK MOTOWN/STATESIDE 45'S and some pic sleeves , NOTE-: There are some genuine Tamla / VIP 45's up as well , but i m ONLY REFERRING TO MINE and that situation in not refunding and indeed offering only £70 when i paid £170.00 , Thanx djgilly

You wanna be more direct Gilly and tell him you still want your money back. Freck what he may or may not have instock next week get it sorted you are £165 down.

Edited July 16, 200816 yr by Prophonics 2029

if you agree a buy it now price on an ebay item then get the seller to add the buy it now to eaby item and then purchase it through ebay

sounds like a **** though to me

David i agree with you on that but just never thought it was NOT ORIG ?? especially payimg £170.00 and asking questions , and as he deals alot in this type , STRANGE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! djgilly

You wanna be more direct Gilly and tell him you still want your money back. Freack what he may or may not have instock next week get it sorted you are £165 down.

I ain't messed about iv'e told him several times but he aint even answering the emails now !!!!!!!! am i sore yeah of course , you'll see who it is by just looking On EBAY UK MOTOWN/STATESIDE/UK DEMO 45's finishing in 1day 6 mins Stateside 348,361, 319, and a few mixed in orig US Soul 45's remember i'm only moaning about the repress TAMLA STRIPES 45 i received , djgilly

Edited July 16, 200816 yr by djgilly

Yes! get your point Gilly, keep the pressure up he may crack the you can always apologize later on for you anger and lack of confidence in him.

Yes! get your point Gilly, keep the pressure up he may crack the you can always apologize later on for you anger and lack of confidence in him.

Thanx m8 will do , djgilly

Good on you fairs fair and he's ripping you off.

Well find myself writing this wondering what peoples take is on the following-: I saw a record on Ebay by a Renowned Motown/Tamla Soul seller and proceeded to ask him about the record (( SATINTONES - GOING TO THE THE HOP / MOTOR CITY - TAMLA 54026 Stripes )) anyway afer a couple of emails and questions like you do , Vinyl, whats in the dead wax ect , it seemed all ok, so i made a offer of £170.00 which he accepted and he removed the 45 from Ebay ect , then i paid via Paypal , record duly turned up rec del and as soon as i opened it , ** Even from the first glance it was clear it was NOT ORIG and a repress thats before i took it out the sleeve, the paper quality was thin poor , (( on Ebay it looked fine but could only see the label )) but as i slipped it out th sleeve it was clearly NEW VINYL & BEVELLED EDGES which is the REPRESS/BOOT from 70/80t's ** So i contacted him and he said i sold it in good faith (( remember he;s a renowned MOTOWN SELLER ect )) i was duped !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so i asked for a REFUND either £170.00 Back or as a repress boot worth £5-£10 take that off, and even offered to pay the relist fees ** THIS WAS NOT ADVERTIZED AS REPRESS but must of known ** HE OFFERED ME £70.00 BACK ????? WHAT!!!!!! ** I then opened up a PAYPAL DISPUTE which closed as it was delivered and NOT about Quality ??? i am somewhat dismayed this SELLER (( Who i ain't named , clearly knew it was not orig but knew it was a BOOT/REPRESS )) took the money in thinking i thought it was original after all thats why i asked , alas he has NOT answered back since !!! and has lots of nice stuff onEbay , NOT A HAPPY CHAPPY and somewhat dismayed at a Fellow Collector/Seller - wondered what people thought abut even it it was a geniune mistake why not offer money back !!! - djgilly - Dave Gilman .....

Dave,

Open a dispute with PAYPAL one of the options is "Item is significantly not as advertised" (Something along those lines anyway). You can then specify that he has sold you a bootleg and not an original. Use of the term bootleg tends to liven up even PAYPAL.

Derek

Hellooooo

Even though an off-Ebay purchase i'm sure you can still file for an item not received/not as described through Pay Pal. It's if you buy off-Ebay, i.e. seller removes item and you pay with a Cheque or postal orders you become a bit unstuck, it's then when EBay can't help. It's Pay Pals help you need though.

Lodge a dispute with Pay Pal and they'll still fight your corner best they can

You could email the seller and pre-warn them you will raise a dispute/claim with Pay Pal, but looking at his User Id, he's got stuff selling, which in turn will fill his Pay Pal account up, Pay Pal will hang onto £170 of it until the case is resolved. Personally I wouldn't mention it to him

Worth a try.

After 20 odd days of the dispute, you have to up it to a claim or the claim will be closed and you'll get bugger all.

Someone beat me to it

Someone beat me to it

Cheers!! Contacted PAYPAL and this was the reply CASE CLOSED ??? in less than 2 hours ????? i don't get it , reply from PAYPAL BELOW-:

Dear David Gilman, Your seller has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. Byending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the seller isasking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part ofour investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had inthe Resolution Centre. Our investigation into the following transaction is complete. As stated inour User Agreement, the claims process only applies to the delivery ofgoods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality ofgoods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction orissue a refund. -----------------------------------Transaction Details----------------------------------- Seller's Name: ??????Seller's Email: ???

Seller's Transaction ID: 2V1362821Y414734X Transaction Date: 13 Jul 2008Transaction Amount: -170.00 GBPYour Transaction ID: 1GS89193MM715384NCase Number: PP-512-119-361 Buyer's Transaction ID: 1GS89193MM715384N

Beats me !!!!! whats the problem i say , and they completed this in less than 2 hours ????????? the SELLER has got a problem i don'tunderstand - djgilly

Edited July 16, 200816 yr by djgilly

Dave,

Open a dispute with PAYPAL one of the options is "Item is significantly not as advertised" (Something along those lines anyway). You can then specify that he has sold you a bootleg and not an original. Use of the term bootleg tends to liven up even PAYPAL.

Derek

Derek i tried that and see the reply in less than 2 hours from Paypal-:

Dear David Gilman, Your seller has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. Byending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the seller isasking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part ofour investigation, PayPal reviewed any communication you may have had inthe Resolution Centre. Our investigation into the following transaction is complete. As stated inour User Agreement, the claims process only applies to the delivery ofgoods. It does not apply to complaints about the attributes or quality ofgoods received. Therefore, we are unable to reverse this transaction orissue a refund. -----------------------------------Transaction Details----------------------------------- Seller's Name: ???Seller's Email: ???Seller's Transaction ID: 2V1362821Y414734X Transaction Date: 13 Jul 2008Transaction Amount: -170.00 GBPYour Transaction ID: 1GS89193MM715384NCase Number: PP-512-119-361 Buyer's Transaction ID: 1GS89193MM715384N

Even if the seller made a genuine mistake - FULL REFUND is the ONLY action he should take. Advertised as original. It's not - simple. Full refund or name and shame so we can avoid him.

Even if the seller made a genuine mistake - FULL REFUND is the ONLY action he should take. Advertised as original. It's not - simple. Full refund or name and shame so we can avoid him.

Dave Cheers!!! Right Seller -: EBAY SELLER -: GTDOWN - JOHN ATKINSON from NORTHAMPTON , and your right even as he said he didn't know HE SHOULD OF REFUNDED FULLY and he only offered £70.00 of the initial £170.00 and i offered to pay the relist fees , ect , and he really should or did know that was not ORIG and said especially with his experience, has ignored me since so everybody knows now, make your own minds up !!! -:ADDEDNOTE-: I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR I HAVE NO DESIRE TO SAY HIS OTHER AUCTIONS ARE BAD BECAUSE I THINK THEY ARE GOOD, HOWEVER MY GRIPE IS THE FACT HE COULD NOT HAVE THE DECENCY TO OFFER THE FULL REFUND OR EVEN THAT I OFFERED TO PAY RELIST FEES AND THE ACTUAL WORTH OF THE BOOT/REPRESS £5-£10 TAKEN OFF THE AMMOUNT, BUT HE CHOOSE TO COMPLETLY IGNORE THIS, AND DID NOT WANT TO KNOW WHEN I SAID THIS , AND TO ME THATS NOT GOOD BUSINESS ........ djgilly

Edited July 16, 200816 yr by djgilly

JOHN - PAY THE GUY HIS MONEY YOU TIGHT GIT! YOU MADE A MISTAKE - DO THE RIGHT THING AND PUT IT RIGHT.

Edited July 16, 200816 yr by Dave Moore

John Atkinson, Refund the money now! Can't see the problem with this at all. Not as described so hand the cash back.

JM offers refunds if not completly satisfied, and that is the way to go. No quible, no hassle just take it back and thats that.

Same John Atkinson that used to work at Tim Brown's place?

If so......JOHN - PAY THE GUY HIS MONEY YOU TIGHT GIT! YOU MADE A MISTAKE - DO THE RIGHT THING AND PUT IT RIGHT.

Dave , John said he was not sure it was REPRO - ORIG , Sorry m8 i can't believe that its a simple call the way i see it ,and took the £170.00 knowing that i reckon, i ain't ritting the rest of his business just that , djgilly

Did the ebay scan show the repro or the orig ?

Marc

John Atkinson, Refund the money now! Can't see the problem with this at all. Not as described so hand the cash back.

JM offers refunds if not completly satisfied, and that is the way to go. No quible, no hassle just take it back and thats that.

Cheers!! even thou i bought this and offered the £170.00 after thinking i was getting the ORIGINAL can't see how he did not know that after all it is simple to tell, and told him as soon as i received, as i said i have no other problem with him at all, just want the money back , djgilly

Did the ebay scan show the repro or the orig ?

Marc

Marc,The ebay just described the record as 1959 SATINTONES - TAMLA 54026 MOTOR CITY, and i asked questions about it so he looked at the 45, but it is easy to tell its a repro, i offered £170.00, but its so clear its not orig when u look, so must of known i told him as soon as i got it , and you have seen he offered me £70.00 back , than no emails at all, i aint gonna pay £170.00 for that and if iwas selling i would say i think its a repro clearly, he did not say that , he was a bit coy i reckon , djgilly

LINK HERE LOOKS THE BUSINESS NO MENTION OF REPRO ?? you can't tell the quality of label by this Ebay pic but its cheap thin paper when you see record , he must know the difference ???

https://cgi.ebay.com/US-1959-THE-SATINTONES...1QQcmdZViewItem

Edited July 16, 200816 yr by djgilly

Marc,The ebay just described the record as 1959 SATINTONES - TAMLA 54026 MOTOR CITY, and i asked questions about it so he looked at the 45, but it is easy to tell its a repro, i offered £170.00, but its so clear its not orig when u look, so must of known i told him as soon as i got it , and you have seen he offered me £70.00 back , than no emails at all, i aint gonna pay £170.00 for that and if iwas selling i would say i think its a repro clearly, he did not say that , he was a bit coy i reckon , djgilly

LINK HERE LOOKS THE BUSINESS NO MENTION OF REPRO ?? you can't tell the quality of label by this Ebay pic but its cheap thin paper when you see record , he must know the difference ???

https://cgi.ebay.com/US-1959-THE-SATINTONES...1QQcmdZViewItem

You are right, one look can already easily tell...its a repro. Wonder why the info about the run out groove were okay though as the repros (done in the eighties) show differently made details. Maybe John overlooked this being a repro or just didn`t knew himself better ? Knowing John I don`t understand there is a problem, did you try to ring him and try to get your point over "quite" and "peacefully" ? I am sure he will refund you...

Marc

You are right, one look can already easily tell...its a repro. Wonder why the info about the run out groove were okay though as the repros (done in the eighties) show differently made details. Maybe John overlooked this being a repro or just didn`t knew himself better ? Knowing John I don`t understand there is a problem, did you try to ring him and try to get your point over "quite" and "peacefully" ? I am sure he will refund you...

Marc

Marc, yeah even thou the pic , its easier when u see the 45 even before i even took out the record from the sleeve i knew it, dead wax just has the 54026-G1/G2 in it like the orig , i am not bothered about an oversight on his behalf but his attitude in NOT REFUNDING i emailed him, but derisory £70.00 ??? paypal claim - closed ?? , and he aint answering now , don't know him personally just of him, but i am fair just asking for fairness back , djgilly

I dont think it is right to sully John Atkinson who used to work with TB, he is a straight fella,

Northampton ? since when did John live there and since when has he used that e-bay seller name ?

I could be wrong but is it not another John Atkinson ?

I dont think it is right to sully John Atkinson who used to work with TB, he is a straight fella,

Northampton ? since when did John live there and since when has he used that e-bay seller name ?

I could be wrong but is it not another John Atkinson ?

Yep, you're right. Could be another John Atkinson. I've edited the reference to him accordingly.

I dont think it is right to sully John Atkinson who used to work with TB, he is a straight fella,

Northampton ? since when did John live there and since when has he used that e-bay seller name ?

I could be wrong but is it not another John Atkinson ?

Hi i don't know t be honest , but the facts are the facts and i have said several times , i have no other problem with this guys sales or his credentials , all i want isthe refund on my particuliar 45, which is Fair, otherwise good luck to him , djilly

Yep, you're right. Could be another John Atkinson. I've edited the reference to him accordingly.

It's not John Atkinson from Lancs..he's a real-good guy and would never do that. There is another guy of the same name, and he's from Northants.

The point of this matter is on this occasion, it is ILLEGAL to sell anything NOT as described the law says he must REFUND.

We credit or refund, even if you don't like how your football team is doing.

It's not John Atkinson from Lancs..he's a real-good guy and would never do that. There is another guy of the same name, and he's from Northants.

The point of this matter is on this occasion, it is ILLEGAL to sell anything NOT as described the law says he must REFUND.

We credit or refund, even if you don't like how your football team is doing.

Thank you John for your input , as you can read the story above , simple to me we are all in this Game together and look after one another and on ocassions we make mistakes, but at the end of the day i ain't no mug !!! hopefully this guy will see sense , thanx - djgilly

It's not John Atkinson from Lancs..he's a real-good guy and would never do that. There is another guy of the same name, and he's from Northants.

The point of this matter is on this occasion, it is ILLEGAL to sell anything NOT as described the law says he must REFUND.

We credit or refund, even if you don't like how your football team is doing.

Quite right John, your refund is second to none. You allways sell more than you get returned, so it's not worth the hassle to quibble over a refund. The guy is out of order, plain and simple.

We have concluded our investigation into your case and have decided in your favour. We were able to recover $168.58 USD, and this amount has been credited to you. Please allow five business days for this adjustment to be posted. If you are due any additional funds, we will make our best effort to recover the balance from the seller. If the seller's account has insufficient funds to complete the refund owed to you, please be assured that we will take appropriate action against the seller's account, which may include limitation of the seller's account privileges.

I had a record sent to me that jumped so I filed a claim and sent the record back and yippee I have got my money back.

I wonder if he will leave feedback for me.

Edited July 17, 200816 yr by Prophonics 2029