purist

Ken, no need to apologise mate, perhaps I should, I could definately have written it better, and my only excuse is that it was late. What I'm trying to say is my personal taste extends only to what I consider to be Northern and/or Soul, it doesn't include, for example, the whole of jazz or country and western, although I can see some tunes that fit into those categories have merit, and as we all know some have drifted into the world of northern. I wasn't saying you said it was Northern, I'm saying if any tune doesn't fit into what my narrow view of good music is, then generally I don't like it ( in other words if I like it, it's Northern. If I don't like it then it can't be Northern :-) Sorry, came over all fascist dictator then didn't I :-) My personal definition is exactly that, mine, and it should differ to anyone else's who's had a different Northern experience to me. I'm not asking anyone else to agree with my definition, neither am I apologising for it. I have almost no snobbery about my defin ition of Northern ( or good :-) From whatever date to whatever date, I don't mind. To me it's totally immaterial, just so long as it has "that sound", which is my poor excuse at not being able to put into words the core element that all northern tunes have. Folk can splinter it into categories and call it R'n'B, Crossover, Beat Ballads,Modern, Tex-Mex, Latin, Stompers, Mid-Tempo, Blue Eyed, 2K, Detroit, etc but to me it all has that 'effect' on me. That effect hasn't really changed greatly since I started collecting. (The fly in this particular ointment is when we come to define Soul in it's non Northern meaning. Will you let me off with " it speaks to something inside of me", which is similar but different to how Northern does it?) By my lights I believe that no matter who plays it, or at what venue certain music gets played, it simply cannot be Northern, so of course there are rules. I used to say the definition of Northern was simply that it was played in a Northern venue, until somebody pointed out that a number of jokes have been played by dj's who were having a laugh. Just imagine some clever sod playing Abba's Dancing Queen and using the 'no rules' excuse ( but if Abba had made a great stomper, what then? It'd be played c/u until somebody found out who it was I guess, then all the folk who'd been filling the floor to it would come out and say " Nah, not me, never liked it, knew it was european disco" :-) You might by now be wondering why I've bothered with all this typing, well it was to get to this point - I gave up smoking several years back after smoking for about forty years. In recent times I find I spend time outside with the smokers. This is not because I like to stand in the freezing cold. cold and standing are two major pain triggers for my illness. This is because some of my favourite dj's ever have programmed certain tunes that I fear may eventually drive me away from the scene. It's a shame because I've always championed newies and pushing the boundaries, right from the pre Wigan days I always wanted to hear the next hot new thing, but everybody has a line and some recent things have crossed the line. I go outside, I now realise, because it upsets me to see and hear some of my heroes doing it. ....that way nobody see's my tears... (btw Ken, earlier somebody said it sounded like a bands 'warming up the crowd' type tune and I think that's towards accurate, though it does remind me a bit like the Stafford thing on Blackjack, red label, Number 3 thingy, but without the Stafford edge if you know what I mean. I wouldn't define this as Funk, I thought Funk had to hit hard on the first stroke of the four? perhaps somebody can put me right? Is it a new definition of Funky Northern ? or is it that I just don't know anything at all, either about categories or about soul? ....I'll get my coat... I might be a while....)

Thanks for sharing Ken, always keen to hear something new, but this is not my idea of either soul or northern ( in all it's guises) so put my vote in the "don't want it, even if it's free" column, sorry mate.

Thanks Dave & Rhino, I did say to my missus "was that groovin with Mr Bloe" but she said no - any further comment will do me no good whatsoever, so I'll just say thanks once again guys...

Watching the episode about them building a full sized house out of Lego and some early years northern instrumental track came on. It's a really well known tune and for the life of me I can't think what it was, did anybody else hear it and if so can you put me out of my misery and tell me what it was? I would think it came from pre 1975 at a wild guess, poss pre Wigan? I feel like I'm trying to say Bella Delana but that's not it, or at least I think not, it's donkey's years since I heard that one?? help!

RCA red labels, not saying they were exclusively pressed there, but every red demo I've had has come from Canada-mind I've only had about four. Having said that Canada has some great looking label variations, which often get confused with the USA issues (The Canadian black Decca is one of my fave looking labels, simple classic kind of matt looking, also like the Mercury two colour issue label, so much nicer than the plain red of the USA issue) btw Does anybody else think the printers were given the order over the phone, hence the basic details being right, but the layout altering? My guess is the companys priority was to get the single pressed as quickly as possible, especially the top up orders, so it was probably all rush & hurry. I tend to assume the non standard looking label variations were from these later 'post release date' orders, but there's a story behind the bootleggers who operated in that era. There was a big net chat about this subject years back, was it on the old soul talk list?

Took me a long time to track this gem down. When I first heard it I wrongly assumed it was another unnisued Motown vault find. As far as I've been able to discover there's no USA release of this track, but to my ears there's no way this isn't an american recording. I drop it in my set at appropriate venues and it's always well appreciated, just needs more deck time from a dj with taste ! somebody who dj's should buy this.....

I noticed that the red label version was slightly longer than the orange one, so I sold my orange one and only kept the red 'un ! plus I prefered the label appearance of the red one (can't remember now, is it about 20 some odd seconds longer?)

Years ago somebody pointed out to me that every original copy of this maroon label version he'd seen had 3 small raised "blips" under the label. I generally swallow any record bar wind up's, mr gullible that's me, so when I got home I checked mine. Sure enough it had them. Looking at this scan it looks like I can see at least 2? Does it mention these "blips" in the bootleg guide by any chance ? Anybody else found these ? does it apply to anything else on the label ?

Purely by chance these were the first two records on the decks for me on friday nite because I couldn't get any further into my box in time and these were right at the front of one row !! As I was about to cue up the 2nd one I suddenly noticed they were consecutive numbers on the label, so announced the second one as " If Zeke & the band made that one in the morning, here's what they did in the afternoon" two great tunes, I thought ol' Garlon ( Garland) was worth a bit more, 300-350ish or am I wrong ? is there a diference in value between the Garlon & Garland labelled copies? sorry for jumping on your thread Keith. Somebody just buy it, it's a great peice of northern !

Sorry if this has been explained on here before, but one that has always puzzled me is why some of the one-Derful ( and similar) labelled 45's are plain yellow without colour in the logo. I recently heard somebody say they thought they were promo's ? (surely not, I've got wdj's properly marked from this group of labels) I always assumed they were later presses of a record which had proved popular enough to require a repress, or possibly pressed at a diferent plant ( are they different vinyl? heavier?) Do soul folk consider them less desirable than the multi coloured ones? should they sell for lesser amounts, or are there specific collectors for this style like there are specific stock RCA collectors for example? Are all releases available as both mono & multi coloured?

Living happily in my collection for many years now is what I consider to be the first copy ever played on the scene ( unless anybody knows different?) It was my mate Blue Max's copy which got spins at the Catacombs and other pre Wigan venues of that era. It is a stock copy and I was offered a near mint wdj in trade as the lad knew it's history, but I turned it down. Financially I should have done the swap, but I don't care as it matters more to me who and where. Anybody else like me, or would you all have taken the demo?

Sorry to jump on your thread, but it can't be just me who saw this on the bay and wondered what it would sell for? Okay so if you've got a record like this would you leave well alone, or get a good quality printed or photocopied scan from an obliging friend and stick that on? (In my experience a label done through a colour photocopier is near perfect as the white isn't too white, and looks much more like the real thing) I've got two nice records which are by definition much rarer as wdj's, but they both look awful because of chronic felt pen abuse on the northern side (only) I've not yet got around to deciding whether to leave well alone or do something about it. What do you all think if you came to buy one of these records in years to come, would you rather have a clean reprinted label, or an ugly unreadable one, and how would it affect the price ? The fact that the flipside label would still be unchanged, would that affect your decision to purchase or not ? Questions, all the time questions .........

Had a nice reply from the seller of this item, thanking me for the info, the advert has now been amended to a fiver starting bid. All seems genuine to me and no rip off intended imho.

just out of interest how many others amongst you wrote to this seller telling him/her what it actually was? or is it just me that does stuff like that?

I'd worry about it melting my vinyl !! surely a cool box would be much better

When the title said 6 Quickies I thought they were all gonna be storming stompers In the words of Lord Luther " my mistake " sorry, couldn't resist. I'll get my coat..... john

I think I know what you're getting at. The thing that winds me up is on many web sites people over use the word 'Rare', just as much as they incorrectly define a 45 as 'Northern Soul' when it clearly isn't, it just happens to be by an artist who has one song we do recognise as a northern tune. The net doesn't have a trades description act like the one most of us british based collectors have grown up with in our non-soul related lives, so any old rubbish gets used to flog us stuff we'd otherwise avoid like the plague. One point is that some collectors see a record they've had for 30 years suddenly become in demand and sell for shed loads of cash and they think " I'll sell mine now if it's fetching that much", and that makes it appear that loads have turned up but in reality there was perhaps one bulk find in the 70's of 25/50/200 copies and only the odd one or two since, but, and I'm sure this has happened to a lot of you, if you'd asked the same collector the week before to sell you the same record they'd say " I'd rather keep it than sell it for £X, I probably paid too much for it back then, but I paid a tenner in 78 for it" On the other hand there's collectors, let's use the phrase ' Black Hole Collectors' ( which has been leveled at me) who spend their lifetime buying with the intention of never selling anything ever (If I hadn't become too ill to work I doubt I'd sell anything) and outside of a few friends who could make educated guesses as to what's in my collection, nobody knows what I've got, so any calculation of how many copies is always nonsense without specific knowledge that can only come from the record label owners business records (I'm not a huge fan of relying on the memories of old artists, producers, etc - over the years I've been told some right codswallop, but then again I don't remember what I did at work 40 years ago, perhaps I sold more bananas than apples, or maybe it was more oranges? Nowadays the sceptic in me wants to see something in writing) I had a mate when I was younger who regularly changed his car five/six times a year. I think there's soul collectors who are like this too. I've often found myself looking through a mates sales box saying "how come you're selling this, you've only just had it"? You get lots of answers like " Spent too much lately" or "It's easier to sell something I've just had than sell something I've had and loved for a decade" or " It sounded rubbish in the house" or "found a minter" or "I've just got the rarer demo/stocker instead" ( on the last 2 answers if that was me I'd keep both demo and stock, and the minter and the vg. Perhaps I'm not a collector but as my missus says I'm a hoarder?)

I might be getting this mixed up with another similar tune, but wasn't there a fabulous write up on how the singer got a job doing office work and odd jobs (a la Martha Reeves @ Motown) and that job led to her rfecording this track ? Dunno if the write up was something in an old fanzine or on the net? help anybody ? btw I think of this as a pre Wigan Catacombs era spin, did it get played anywhere before that ?

Is your mate the young David Cameron, looks an awful lot like him? Or maybe Piers Morgan ?

This reminds me of one of my favourite Niter record bar arguements ever - which name crops up the most often on the records in your collection ? Of course Popcorn Wylie/Tony Hester gets a few mentions, Holland Dozier Holland, the list goes on, but I tend to go for Sonny Sanders first, closely followed by Van the man ( maybe that's just my collection and nobody else likes the stuff I do ?) I just looked through that site at the 60's discography and I wonder if we haven't got some to add to it amongst our collections ? it doesn't seem a long enough list to me.... I better go look at the non 60's discography first tho'... (btw The book looks like a winner Neil )

My theory is if Ilisted them all I'd be tempted to put a value column on the spreadsheet, then once I saw the total I'd feel compelled to sell them all. As it stands when the kids say " I'm hungry" I can at least answer " What do you expect me to do about it" !

I've not got it anymore but I'm sure the issue I had, had got a raised centre when viewed from the edge, as though the vinyl was twice as thick under the label as where the grooves were.

I cant believe nobody came up with the obvious solution - put Willie Kendrick's version of W.T.O.Y.F. on the right hand deck, and Kenny Carter's " I've Got to Get Myself Together" on the left hand deck. Play one then the other. Truly fabulous soul records that always go down well with the dancefloor despite their mid tempo. Better still if they're both beautiful black issue copies, deck clockers ecstasy !! Big City Soul Indulgence

Coincidence ! Only last week I dug out KC to play as a hardly-ever-heard-oldie, and I'm not the only one who thought it sounded fantastic loud in a venue. For those too young to remember, not exactly sure of the year, maybe 1974/73? but anyway, this was such a MONSTER record it's hard to imagine today. Of course nothing ever stayed that hot for that long, but I can clearly remember people literally running for the floor, vaulting tables, etc, as that opening high pitched sound starts the tune. And the label, surely one of the nicest looking labels ever. Was it the Grapevine press that consigned it to the too-nice-to-dump-so-I'll-put-it-in-the-box-under-the-bed graveyard? I'll bet I've not heard it in a club half a dozen times in the last 30 years, but then I'm not a regular at most oldies only events. More tea Vicar ? No, but more forgotten Oldies like this please ! (KC gets my vote)

I'm a mixture of lazy and time pressed, which i think applies to a fair few collectors, so I want (1) simplicity, and (2) a reason to bother spending what time I have looking through a sales list or advert. Some days on SS there's so many lists of sales to look through I cherry pick some and leave the rest, and some sellers make their sales look more attractive by listing a few tasty morsels under the heading ( dont understand those that dont do this) others use different methods, like Pete Smith uses lower prices and he's known for it. Over time you get to know which names are likely to have stuff that interests you and matches your tastes and wallet. One seller whose lists I always look at is bitch dj and the reason I look is what's written at the top of each sales list - "as usual prices incl UK P+P and paypal fees...any questions PM me or email cookinupsoul@aol.com" (I've supposed over time that this is the female dj Cookie ?) Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is I'm in the camp that says a record listed at £87.67 all inclusive of card charges,paypal, special delivery and anything else is more preferable to reading £80 and then finding I've got to work out the extra charges for cardboard mailer, sticky tape, petrol to take it to the post office, childminder, stopping off a mcDonalds because I've missed my lunch hour from work, and every other daft thing people have said to me over the years. Of course if you go with this sales method of all inclusive you've got to apply a little common sense, if the buyer goes to collect the record because the seller lives locally they dont expect to pay the full whack, same as if its collected from a venue, or if they buy several records you'd expect to negociate some discount. (as a former saleman I know everybody loves a bit of discount. That word has a power, a bit like when your missus says " d'ya fancy an early nite ?" it's not the actual words,or their literal meaning, its the effect they have on you :-) Incidentally, and this is the gospel truth, the last thing I did before logging into SS tonite was to email a record seller in the states, and I worded my offer "$XX in total including postage to England for these 2 records. If acceptable let me have your paypal address". I know what I'd pay for these 2 in a Niter, so why pay more to buy them mail order? btw I agree record condition and bad description is an equally annoying problem. A record described truthfully as "looks rough but plays okay to dj with, odd crackle and pop" or VG if you like that term better, is only worth at the very most 50% of the value of a very clean "near minter" ( excellent, shiny vinyl, clean label, no writing, no visible scratches, plays without any sign of hiss, etc) For folk who disagree with this percentage, try selling them at a venue. People pull them out of the sleeve and immediately either bid down the marked price or drop it back in the box and walk away. Yes I know folk, especially on ebay, seem to love to pay 95% of book for a scratchy VG minus, but that's because they're not right/deluded. Instead of VG sellers should use PH - to mean these records are only Place Holders until a decent one comes along. If you read that instead of VG would you still bid 95% ? I think not. On the other hand a true new old stock unplayed copy of any one of the rare gems known to be bad wearers or frequent hissers is worth 10-20% over the odds ( this bit is imho, the 50% maximum for vg isn't, it's fact) Oh, one of these days I must put up my favourite record bar story about a record condition/valuation conversation. It was many years ago but it still makes me smile.