Tlscapital

Coming from the Ivories trivia in chronology of releases I noticed that the Despenza release had all the similar typos as the orange label version of the Brothers of Soul on Despenza with the so called 'Italic' logo. So I went on and tried to determine precisely what are the odd dates of releases and took the most detailed from Cat45 and already just at first set the evidence with facts back in order with the Criss Cross located before the Creations on Zodiac which makes no sense plus the matrix number say otherwise ; Zodiac 1005 (as the Creations) 'a dream' September 1967 ZTSC 126555 & 126556 Criss Cross 1001 'can't get you out of my mind' SEPTEMBER 1967 ZTSC 126557 & 126558 Zodiac 1008 'come on back' (as Freddy & Bobby) 1968 ? New entry as G F member on here started a quest on this new to me and rare B.O.S. in "disguise". Boo 1001 'can't get you out of my mind' 1968 ? Same ZTSC as Criss Cross 1001 Boo 1004 'I guess that doesn't mame me a loser' FEBRUARY 1968 Boo 1005 'come on back' July 1968 Boo 1006 'I'd be grateful' December 1968 Boo 111 'you better believe it' June 1969 Boo 112 'one minute baby' November 1969 Shock 1313 'dream' 1971 ? Shock 1314 'try it baby' MAY 1971 Their Criss Cross and first Boo should be dated around October 1967 and January 1968. As the Criss Cross release is very close following the Creations going by the following matrix numbers and labels prints. Then what bothers me some are those 1971 datings for both Shocks releases that are so far appart from the previous with no better reason or explanation for the one year plus gap in between ecordings of theirs. Evidently they were busy composing, producing and arranging others gear but still. Anyone knows ?

Yes exactly. That's why I quoted that fabulous Traits 45 and the 'spolight' it brought on Barry Despenza's label and potential allowing to encounter new opportunities outside of its usual local Chicagp perimeters by November 1967. Just before Tyrone's on ABC (hat's off 4 that). And then maybe so even to cash back on the missed opportunity due to bad, poor and / or nonchalant promotion with the Wand missed target by relaunching he Ivories on Despenza. Did the Jerry Butler acquisition of the 'Overcome Publishing' allowed him to do that ? All of that likely just before or after his fantastic job with Tyrone at ABC in December 1968 (as the Ivories buzz seem to have worked some locally seing 3 different releases) and before the launch to fame of Tyrone Davis on Willie Henderson Dakar's new label in June 1968.

OK ,thanks for all that Roburt. Sure the recording is 1967 as even if tone of the Despenza release predates the Wand , it must have been short after (March 1967) while it was still 'HOT' climbing the charts. A bit like the Earl Harrison on ABS, then Garrison and then through there on Wand (although a flop on Wand again) all released simultaneously in a row... Now indeed if Steve G has insight on the Wand that might help a lot indeed.

In my manic manner to set the record straight to ease my little worried mind as to what, where and if possible why I now try to set the chronology of this sole recording little wonder band with their 'please stay' iconic (overplayed) sound. Looking closer at it I now see that no one on Discogs or 45Cat came with factual hints like radio charts or proofs like with new releases reviews for the Despenza release to attest as I'd have thought it to be prior to the Wand. Anyone knows ? The Despenza releases do get a 1966 release date on 45Cat and 1968 on Discogs for 'ballpark's' sake. Then on 45Cat there's this ; Overcome Pub. Co. Inc. (BMI), 627 East 33rd Street, Chicago (1968 listing - imprint owned by Jerry Butler). Although the Wand is evidently dating March or April 1967 shows the Overcome Music / Flomar Music co-publishing rights. Could the Overcome publishing rights have been bought later in 1968 by Jerry Butler to free it from the Wand chain ? Then could the March 1967 Wand release actually be the first release ? With a deal that went sour after poor "promotion" with Wand's Commercial and Artistry Directors then rather lost in the shuffle with few co-Produced ventures commercial failures... Desmi Co-Production being one with this very Wand release. Then once liberated by legal bound from their contract Barry Despenza finally released it trice on his Despenza label. Or was one of the Despenza release actually predating the Wand ? FWIW the Traits 'some day some way' on Contact dating from November 1966 at least according to one radio chart.also had few re-releases with continuous growing demand likely giving Barry Despenza a necessary spotlight for commercial success.

The Mega Phone label was Sepe & Brooks owned in continuation of their productions re-realising amongst their contemporary new releases Yvonne's sole HIT in April 1968. That was repressed few times after in both the USA and Canada up to the mid-eighties on various labels (specialized in 'oldies' or not only).

Corporates !

Datcogs entries are 'open sourced' fed and now (or was it not long ago and not anymore ?) to do so one has to go through a "chart" of procedures with some kind of "board of the wise" (whatever) voters to accept one's addition... Like some others on here I don't bother anymore to add new entries or make corrections there plus their more than poor buyer & seller service post Covid where they made a lot of bucks has really ruined my sympathy for them. Although I still tend do so on 45.com more willingly. Check it there. Not a sale's site though but with enthusiast and / or passionate folks. There's two scans of your copy of the same or similar issue (with alt. title 'Yes it's me').

Sorry but I don't have the cultural "codes" to access that humor... as am not Brit Common now Simon is there some lead to dig into or is it just a "bearded biker's joke' ?

Wondering about her who's who I was stunned not to find much if nothing relevant out there but an early sixties photo of the Roulettes (her accompany group on Domain record which had a first record on Domino before she took the 'lead') and a 1964 record review quoting he 'there he goes' side on Vee-Jay as some Brenda Holloway 'wanna be' effort... While her fab 45 loved by most with 'Stuck On You' the 'B' side of her "evergreen" HIT 'Gee What A Guy' that was issued on numerous USA labels and pressing plants continuously since it's initial release on Domain in June 1963 up to the mid eighties is that well known even outside the realms of soul fanatics but not the woman. Anyone ?

Two different mixes on USA Epic releases also. The first one is credited 2:38 for timing the second one 2:57. The later or second mix was used for the UK Direction release in June 1968. The Columbia dates March 1968. The second mix has no reverb and is all "packed" or muffled if you will for more 'Oomph' discotheque like effect.

I concur ; To invite to use Google is rather 'negative' True as there are other less "problematic" and controversial (rightfully so) brands of search engines out there. Look out. But to invite one and all not to be too lazy and do the effort to do a little research on the net is on the other hand indeed constructive Chalky. Way to go

Yeehaw ! Look at my avatar Paul. I'm 5 years old there with my cowboy hat and boots (plastic water boots dipping but Hushhh !) a firetruck (a necessary very important ornement at anytime) under the left arm and my handgun in the right hand. Ready to shoot. Fastest gun alive !

FingerPoppin'Soul

Fantastic this. Boss. Edward Hamilton a true willing mind... And then some.

Carrie C-0037 up to Carrie C-0040 publishing rights were for most (one side before in October 1962) deposited between early and late April 1963 ! But all were registered on different dates ! Which could indicate a rather intense April activity at Carrie's in releases after registrations of the compositions. So this Carrie release could be later than February 1963 evidently but not too late I believe. Mind you that the Carrie 'A' side was James Hendrix composition. And the Lanrod's 'A' side were logically (IMO but to the public's ear too) the Cornelius Grant composition. There could be some explanation as to why the title change and time gap...

Good infos. Copyrights for both songs deposited in April 1963. So the first Carrie release was 1963 and the Lanrod early 1964. TEMPTATION OF LOVE; w & m Edward Hamilton. © Mester Music, Inc.; 8Apr63; EU765326. NOW YOU HAVE TO CRY ALONE; w & m James Hendrix. © James Hendrix; 8Apr63; EU765325.

Freedom of dress code is not Paul's point. As a skinhead in my teens I remember attending gatherings with all those 'butt heads' all dressed in Ben S., F. Perry, Doc M. ... it really felt awkward and uncomfortable. Evidently I never went for any of those brands and looks afterward weary of being accused to be part of such a 'sect'. And I still see it happening at todays events with older skins, mods and scooter boys... Yet i's not even that that Paul is referring to here but add my point to it and it becomes scary. Like in an 'anticipation' movie. The Mold ! A bit like The BBC Proms. As it is scary as a social (mass - group) phenomena and pathetic because I'm into NS. So what Paul is referring to is not the T-shirt cloth or printed-on T-Shirts but it's what's printed on them that can be screaming 'pathetic'. It's only a commercial product of no taste, no intelligence nor originality made for consumers happy to be just that. Evidently those into wearing them gladly takes the bystanders comments on the Proms... It's a painful phenomena to witness IMO as it's a debatable topic open for those whose do not agree. But what's with the 'police' thing ? Evidently things that do go wrong or lean toward about it all are to be addressed and if those lenient with all that seem 'offensive less' they might remember that it's the little things that counts.

Tee-shirts, coffee mugs, computer mouse matts, turntables slip-mats, slippers and wall clock... What's not to like ?Baring with pride you're a fan, a devotee a go-go to one of the most respected tribe in Britain's underground sub-culture history... As seen on The BBC. If you can't beat them, join them... I say run, flea retaliate and exterminate !

A synthetic carefree pre-selection of tunes supposedly suiting one's intellectual ear or taste and / or "preference" or anything 'subjective' for that matter equals death to me. As far as 'sharing' goes it has nothing to do with such 'free' availability. On the contrary even. To 'share' involves a commitment from the 'giver'. If not it's more like seduction. Adverts are not sharing for example. Although they are freely available if not invasive even. Never forget that when a commercial product is 'free' the consumer is the 'product'. Tape swappers was many things. But sometimes it involved 'sharing' between friends or further 'in-crowds'. Then black-market tapes not. Or stolen recordings on tape definitely not.

There's Roger Banks copy on here from today's sales post too...

Don't over estimate the constancy of any administrations On some cheaper declared items I had to pay more import VAT than on others higher valued ones and sometimes the parcel went through the Customs without any charges...

Like you all put together even with Al Kent's words in that interview leaves enough room for your theory to fit in. Which is my belief too as well. Since he might have recorded 'Lonely Teardrops' but it was never to be released. Unlike 'Dat's Why I Love You' and 'Am I The Man' who got released by him prior Jackie's covers. Since there's no trace of Al's 'Lonely Teardrops' record we can conclude that it was never issued or even promoted only if ever. It does make sense that he vividly remembers recording 'Lonely Teradroips' to soon after hear it on the radios by Jackie. Claiming 'I was first' to sing that. As you implied likely his recording just served as a 'maquette' for Jackie.

But John Bowie was up there on a par with the Charades if you will. Both Cajun Hart's and Eddie Foster commanding higher price tags if ever in regard of availability, demand and rarity for super clean copies. Especially of late. This John Bowie is a straight 100% jump in price without better reason for it. That's why it's most shocking.

Like Madonna's nickers, Mick Jagger's cigarettes blunt or Michael's glove he achieved to built a 'fan' community whose cult is worshipping everything that 'JM' touched. Them wanting 'a piece of him' comes to a costs... LOL !

Gene Chandler's epic 45's Flip Side of 'There Goes The Lover' titled 'What Can I Do' written by Reverend James Cleveland was also superbly interpreted by the Tripps on Victoria as the B-Side of their 'Give It Back' single but then titled 'Here Comes The Heart'Aches'. 45Cat.com dates the release of the Gene Chandler in August of 1967 as it was reviewed in Billboard as a new release on the 19 of that month. And 45Cat.com has the date of the Tripps in September 1967. So one month later. But both sides of the Tripps were actually written by the Reverend. Gene chandler only has that sole track written by that prolific and renowned Reverend singer. Then on the Gene Chandlers 45 the Copyright companies give Jalynne and BRC but with another title mind you... Where the Tripps are registered under Savoy Music BMI. Savoy the famous gospel record label where the Reverend was. And both the Tripps songs were deposited in October (Give It Back) and September 1967 (Here Comes The Heart'Aches) respectively. So definitely after Gene Chandler's release. But whose version was actually really out first ? I'd have always thought that the Tripps was first but maybe not. As it could be a deal gone sour re-recording. The copyright dates can never really be proof of a release date. This can be done post the actual record's release. Procrastinate... So it can't be used as evidence. The Tripps 45 also got two press releases FWIW. Was one pressed to supply popular demand ? Or were they both 'regional' releases ? It even got a printed white paper 'promo' sleeve...