Tlscapital

OK but what vinyl is that Adey has ? As I said a few were pressed on carvers white labeled with a Charay logo. How come no images of real ones at all anywhere ! Just mentioned as in 'rumored' here and there. Another 'legend' record ?

We're still to see a real Martha Starr 'Sweet Tempt' on Charay C35 if ever to establish its presumed 'rare' existence. The only imaging of it on Datcogs and 45Cat.com both share the same fake Low-Fi black and white DIY 'imaging'. The only showing vinyl pressings were made later in small numbers post 2000 along with few following carvers. It's my gut feeling that this Martha Starr (Carolyn Sullivan really) cut remained unissued prior the acetate find. Then came the unearthed reels. Or is it the other way around that prompted the making of the 'acetate' ? Then this Martha Starr whole recording really confusingly sounds Detroit. Like Dave Hamilton stuffs. Obviously there's a Texas - Detroit connection but it's not the first time we have those con-X-shuns. Covering Carolyn Sullivan's identity behind a Martha Starr with 2 'R' is not misleading innocently. A lot of very 'troubled waters' around this 'Sweet Temptation' wonderful track nonetheless.

OK, yes good point. Good and valid clarification in distinction between Mike Hanks and Don Davis productions and collaboration in releasing the gear. Although as you pointed with more than one bridge between them and the people around them. And yes it's only a supposition or proposition in possibility especially for the few girls we know around D-Town or Wheelsville... That line-up of backings were named by Cody Black himself to attest the credibility of the source some more FWIW.

FWIW I was answering to the prior comment by comparing MP3's with OVO. And why keep it OVO. Bootlegs, reissues and mp3's all subjects to dislikes beyond 'pro-elitist' factor. Also because that's how it started and should last IMO.

In the Hi-Fi world there's no better. Only different. Many still prefer the analog experience. Most Hi-Fi critics dig both. Though it is generally acknowledge in that field that the best digital home gear is expensive. More than the analog. What is critical if not crucial is the format of recording and mastering. So again analog recordings will never be better converted to digital. That is all our music before the ninety nineties and beyond. Even if properly re-mastered to digital. Vice-versa very true also. Digital recordings aim for digital support. Vinyl releases of these is utter hipsterism nonsense stupidity. Any audio system big or small should be considered very differently. Especially at the amplifications stages. Back on track. Have PM'ed you the rest. Yes I can also hear the differences. But beyond that is what can one dee-jay achieve to play creatively with all he has. Not like an old 'Soul Supply' or 'Goldmine' comp or YT on 'random' mode.

The origin of cover-ups yes it's that. Plain and simple. Playing digital formats never. Why ? First because it's crap. It's the worst format when it comes to analog recordings, masterings and releases. Sounds poor, dull, cold and live less. You might reply to me that most do's have bad sound systems anyway. So from bad to bad the gap if ever is not that big anymore. Like most collectors have unproper phono gear to play their rare records. Two wrongs don't make a right. And if that argument 'if about the music' to explain why not the mp3's, then the same could have been asked about playing bootlegs, reissues and cassettes back in the seventies. But no. So there's more to it in this 'rare soul' scene. OVO is / was the factor to keep it "real", going and very competitive between dee-jays. Too much ego at times and not only about music I agree. Still I'm one of those who will never agree to any concession about OVO for a proper nighter. Because it was like that and it will stay like that. Because it forces the dee-jays to be creative with what they have achieve to gather, discover, collect and love. The difference between crate diggers and big ticket items deep-pockets. The other things like scooterist Week enders, BBQs, youth-clubs, one deck at the end corner of the Pub or the Juke-Boxes are free to play whatever and I dig these with great pleasure. Never feeling bothered about the formats there. Just like the best dee-jays are collectors all self-respected collectors will always vouch for OVO first. Bootlegs and reissues are fillers or last resorts hoping to be replaced. Choosing their pressings for rational or preferential reasons.

Begging to have a quantifiable 'terminology based on an approximative estimation inventory of the 'rarest' (less than 5), 'very rare' (less than 50), 'rare' (less than 250), 'a bit rare' (less than 500); 'no that rare' (less than 1.000) and 'not rare' (plenty). While prices or market values (median auctions can be the measure of that) is something else indeed. What was considered 'very rare' at first is sometimes not after a while once it's valued to change hands for 'appealing' amounts and come out of collections and into the 'light'. Or until a batch of NOS comes onto the market. To have a constant 'inventory' should determine that but IMO is not possible at all times ? To be approximative is good enough.

Vert interchangeable and status can change fast 😉 Rare definition : Uncommon, extraordinary, rarefied. Scarce definition : Short in supply, hard to find, rare.

The 3 different takes vary in music and singing. FWIW Cody Black 'Mr. Blue' on D-Town released in October 1965 (Steve Mancha 'Did My Baby Call' on Wheelsville was June 1965) used for that session as back-up singers Lilian Dupree, Dee Edwards, Silky Hargreaves and Tom Storm (sourced from Graham Finch fab interview with Cody Black).

So Steve Mancha was not in the Professionals 'that's why I love you' session. And the Professionals never recorded 'did my baby call'. So either someone else yet to figure out (or never) who is singing this version on the 'B' side of 'that's why I love you' or... Or was it a Steve Mancha trying to push his voice for something else... Like with a 'groan' tone that Steve Mancha started to get more and more by 1967 and 1968. That we can hear on some later tunes like 'I won't love you and leave you' or 'just keep on loving me'...

That is a 'dub' of the 2011 edition of Joey Kingfish on SonicWax (which sounds better than that boot FWIW).

OK, so it's actually the Professionals 'that's why I love you' that got flanked with Steve Mancha's previously unissued alternate take (likely without no other materials of their own). Top Notch informations 'closing' this mystery quest.

FWIW the Professionals according to the Datcogs entry were consisting of a Regge Green, a Fred (Fast Freddie) Anderson, a Steve Calloway and a Nance (Swiggle) Connor. No mention of a Steve Mancha. As opposed to what I've always read here and there. So what are the sources of 'bargainvinyl1' on his Datcogs entry for that line-up ? Or the same for Steve Mancha's involvement theory... ? What are the sources ? With this picture on Datcogs showing 3 guys posing and not 4 ! Anyone with any fuel on this ?

Allright. That's it 👍 Had to dig some as sometimes the sound clips don't fit the record presented on YT but managed that. Top Notch. Thanks

This here first is the take that came on the 'The Essential Detroit Soul Collection' on Goldmine compilation that I got to get use to home when that compilation came out. Where Steve Mancha's singing is 'grittier' in comparison with the clip below that is the cut I heard lifted from the actual 45. Begging the question was this 'grittier' cut ever released on Wheelsville or not ? Are there some 'mispressings' out there featuring this mix ? I know that Goldmine did get a lot of those Groovesville reels at one time. Possibly making this 'previously' unreleased take it's first release on vinyl (then CD)...

Yes but (which means no but also yes although there's more to it 😉) for example I remember being showed a specific UK sixties 'want add' snippet offering a lot (back then) for a copy of the Vibrations 'soul a go go' on Okeh (USA only). Meaning that the sound was being played and sought after too (meaning rare) and hard to locate then in the UK. The 'rare' of then was evidently as the sound of then different. Still all the same together a factor. Not THE factor though.

Liveliness, love and determination are vital drive forces. Optimism in real situations (not the philosophy one) allows one to face the expected trials and crosses through hardship providing one with all the necessary means to make it happen. Just like your strong testimony shows here. The outcome although can be only hopefully achieved. In real it's not always the case. But after having tried until the end if to no avail regrets will have no say. Because it's still better to have love and lost than to never to have loved at all. Life goes on. Even rugged with it's casualties load... KTF ! Bitterness toward one or many is never good. But deepest open disagreement and caution on some characters and human nature in behavior are to be learned, point out and taught. For oneself and to others to prevent and protect. Not to involve every other people or the world into is most proper.

1975 maybe ? 😉

Six times ten at least ! That rare... Although demand is high and the record is good to better depending on how you like or need it. But never that rare.

What I refer to as 'sanding' but 'skimmed' or 'T-Cut' can also be descriptive qualifications if ever as I can't guess better the 'technique' at play being used to achieve such result. But it does 'flat out' to top groove surface and seem to eliminate most scratches but the technique also polishes the inner groove some ! On "solid" vinyl pressings such technique can make the playback experience with such records sound a bit 'thin' (weak on bass) with mushy high and mid frequencies. But with no too little 'snaps, crackles and pops'. Have also heard such treatments on styrene pressings and they didn't sound even 'as good' or if ever worse.

On closer inspection you're right. It is a Canadian copy housed in an American Company sleeve. JM Quality Control missed that.

Most 'record cleaning' machines using fluids shan't leave such a 'mat veil' but you never know what additive one's adding in their cleaning solution... And if ever the vacuum or drying finish is completed properly. Mind you some record's plastic polymer sleeves are with time deteriorating the record's surfaces in such manner. Physic phenomenon molecule swap and alteration. Still those plastic polymer sleeves were mostly and commonly used for LP's. Less commonly used on 7". Finally ultraviolet rays (sunshine exposition) will inflict such symptoms. Then last and hopefully least some 'crooks' techniques consisting by 'sanding' the groove surface of rare dee-jay records to eliminate marks and scratches to such kind of visual effect too.

Didn't know that. Thanks. Was wondering about that and now I do know what or who actually Sylves refers to. Lovely.

First a little addition to their Discography gracefully pointed to me by member 'MalC' on here for what could actually be their very first release. Then what I believe to be the most logical chronology order for the last few ones even when solo ; Tribune 'army of love' as Monarchs of Winston-Salem ??? 1962 ??? Mala 'stay' July 1963 Musicor 'that girl' May 1966 Musicor 'my heart cries' December 1966 Verve 'love chain' May 1968 Verve 'that's my girl' July 1968 Sylves 'that's my girl' local NY deep green Sylves possibly dating October 1968* Sylves 'that's my girl' Chess distr. dating possibly November 1969* Sylves 'lonely man's hum' Sylves (blue label) possibly between December 1969 and February 1970 - SOLO effort - Sylves lonely man's hum' Sylves (silver label) later mix with extra guitar riffs and instrumental flip date ? - SOLO effort - *Corrected from 1969 to 1968 in regard of the WJMO radio playlist featuring it !

Initially written for a Temptations-a-like fit but that was prior Berry Gordy Diva's threat to sue and so they swapped it for the Dells. Good God I didn't know that before looking into it. Both of you are right and wrong. But this is the 'bottom' of it.