Tlscapital

See Lorraine you can hold on... Happy Birthday ! 🎂

Not have one for sale and keep mine but no I didn't know that. Ha !

🙉

As a young man that I am in his fifties living in Brussels anything that participate in the 'commercialization' of the 'scene' (I'll come back to that) has a painful payback when it comes to the 'DO's' where having here and there. Only organizers if ever appreciate such growing attendance of standardized newcomers while the dee-jays have to deal with the worse "requests" from those punters. Refering to the 'scene' (that once was but is no more as it was) or rather as the remains or the 'IT' or the 'IT's' makes it at least "reference-able" even if not 'factual'. But indeed the term is problematic as even when I'm being asked how's the 'scene' doing in Brussels I reply we have no 'scene' here. We never had. The only scenes Belgium had was the Pop-Corn and the Techno ones. Mod, rockers, skinheads or what never. Northern Soul or Modern Soul never had a 'scene' here. Even if through the years we had events of little "importance". Some were fair others no so much. Bunch of friends, nice guests and interesting new comers for a good time with good music at times too. The humble aim was good music and records discovering. So these small do's we had of our own were always sporadic and 'open' and 'accessible' to one and all with curious ears. This not to appeal only to the 'target' public but to broaden it. Allowing the dee-jays more "freedom" in their selections too. Still stating the Northern Soul musical trend of the night for the orientation evidently. Or Modern Soul for the other events. But with the bigger later Northern Soul events in Belgium the dee-jays pressure to play more 'mod' or 'mp3 classics' danceable tunes 'à la Levana' to keep the floor busy was real and a drag for me. This is in no way what I want to participate to in any future Northern Soul events in Belgium or about. And anything that participates into such 'sell-out' of the Northern Soul brand is bringing only more of that. Even at our 'humble' whatever events here and there too. With ready made copy cats dee-jays willing to compete ! Say what ? So the "scene" as I refer to that once was could be named the 'IT' or considering what's left of 'IT's' is all that too to me.

Spotify Northern Soul, The Snake, The Proms OK. What's not to like ? And if they're happy with that shall I wreck their fun ? No evidently ! Sorry for being sarcastic but this is all adrift. I doubt anyone's debating the outside world's view and appreciation of the BBC Northern Soul proms show on here. We're talking about the scene from the inside here. Of that very specific event that some on here liked, support and defend. Especially when someone's opinion doesn't "fit" or 'criticize' it for what is is and is not. As for Joe's Public appreciation on it nobody's judging what they make of it rest assure.

Digging your approach I like most you've wrote. But is Northern Soul a music genre ? I really think not. It's a 'scene'. A bit like it's Belgian "contemporary" counterpart the 'Pop-Corn'. Not a musical genre but a specific selection of various records fitting a certain 'Club' mold and focusing on Soul mainly but with loads of the most odds and sods sounds too. 'With Pop-Corn' it's certainly more complicated to apprehend to outsiders. Lke on the Northern Soul Fronts with different opinions and "controversy" on the sounds... So covering up such "underground" scenes by the medias have always been very 'touchy' matters and the celebration by any institution welcoming it in the 'Hall Of Fame' a SHAME. Unlike the artists and even more heartedly the small time ones who finally get a broader 'public' recognition in or through the medias show a happy face as they do appreciate such consecration while any "underground" scene who's been exposed to such will face the consequence of it never to be the same anymore. A commercial sell-out brand...

Not that Paul or anybody has to be defended but I'do think that these assumptions are rather odd to say the least. As these threads are open to anyone to share their opinions or points of views and should not be subject to contrariety if it differs from some, most or all even. At least I hope. And if ones responds to many times that's still fine I believe. Posting more than others if ever (who's counting ?) is not against the site's guidelines nor a against good morality standards IMO. Even though it can seem like a lot (too much maybe 😶‍🌫️) but we still love little Paul. Don't we. Even if he can be... 😉 As for using others footages posted publicly in the first place for all to see here I see absolutely no wrong in doing so. Sorry but it seems that you are trying anything and everything to put a 'blame' on him. Instead of replying to him and his criticism actually with some counter arguments. Peace !

And the Orlons Northern Soul poppy classic 'Once Upon A Time' 🤪

This has nothing to do with northern soul exclusively. It's a dee-jay practice that's been going on since the fifties where the sources for the records are limited like in Jamaica for a well known example. In the competitive world of dee-jays the exclusivity of a specific "sound" will participate in a dee-jay's reputation building-up. Something I don't like but it's only that. This has nothing to do with the artist's "care" or credentials if ever. Russ was just caricaturing too simply those who didn't embrace the BBC proms "celebrating" (I still don't know what exact event / date) openly on Public Broadcast for the world to see (sic - the embarrassment) event like some kind of 'scrooge' (that some are I agree) who want the northern soul to remain like some secret 'Free Maçon Satanic' cult where all is 'hidden' with secret sounds of C/U OVO's... A worsened caricature. As opposed to those self-videos of some attending the BBC Northern Soul Proms on the other hand that are of real people attending and celebrating. And no caricatures or are they ? At least in comparison one is real and truly embarrassing (even shared on social medias 🥶) and the one Russ made-up if inspired by few of the worse characters from the scene only fictional still. There's not one to prefer but one is real, exposed and more about than a few...

December 1966 is the time of release. Shawn Robinson's singing if not amazing as such fits this take so well. Thanks to Arthur Wright L.A. masterclass arrangements too. Datcogs entries are 'open sourced' and so too dependable like wikipedia to whatever fews or manies feeds it with. Then comes the moderators correction approach or not... May this Shawn Robinson be the 'babe' in the picture to have found greater yet still small time success at fame later through an Italian connection to make it all a bit of a sad story... Regardless am happy to have learn that little something about that singer of this most fine soul record IMO. No matter how not 'BIG' anymore it is. Still loving it to death from the first note. On a side note interesting to have seen the release of the previously unissued Barbara Mercer Detroit cut on Hayley records in 2022. Compo credited to Robert Staunton and a Robert Walker ! Where the Shawn Robinson release gives the composition credits to Staunton and some Webster guy. Although still under Myto licence registration. Indicating a Detroit origin for the composition. Was the Barbara Mercer aimed for a release or was it only serving as a maquette for the Shawn Robinson L.A. release ? I vouch for the second theory as the Barbara Mercer somehow sounds too "unfinished". FWIW by October 1966 the last Golden World 45 was released. So could that take of 'my dear heart' have been her last recording session at Golden World before issuing her following and best ever 45 on Sidra ? That Robert Staunton seems to be the - link - between the unissued Barbara Mercer take and the later perfect Shawn Robinson L.A. cut. But still who is that Webster guy replacing Robert Walker's co-composer's credit and why ?

Hi there Russ, can't find who posted such comments on here but I did quote the BBC for which I don't have much respect for. As this 'past façade' institution is now more than ever clearly on the lowdown profile dipping for their audimat score conjuring to mix a 'traditional conservative' pride mixed with a 'progressive' liberal sell-out thing. Then as for the 'soul' of the people involved into that spectacle, show or circus I can't say if they are into 'soul music' or not, and never would have claimed so but I quoted the performance result as MUZAK. True to my ears. So a bit like my mum who's really into Vermeer (the fabulous Dutch painter) but can she paint like him ? This I seriously question. Stating the serious lack of soul in the singer's performance as well. Never said that it was not a 'performance' to put together. But for example Celine Dion sings better the same way these singers sung not making her a soul singer still. And Rondo Veneziano did storm the charts in 1982 with their strings armada without impressing me all the same if ever. Anyway these two points (one in regard of the BBC "pedigree" credential IMO and then the other 'soul' factor of that prom thing) I did were quoted separately as they are two different points not to be made as one if ever you were quoting me without being more specific 😉 About the performance achievement put up for the event I agree to that. But what's exceptional about it ? Sorry but just the fact that they're covering a plethora of "Northern Soul" classics of records that I love and hate (sorry if I offend anyone on here but I really do - so sorry again for the strong word but it's my gut feeling) does not fulfill my curiosity more than Bruce Springsteen (not as bad now in comparison) for example... And common let's not drag the original artists into this. Evidently any kind of recognition from their unachieved past success will be taken as a "prize" by them. Even Soft Cell, Phil Collins, Mick Jagger (how low do we have to go ?) did that to them... Don't start the 'emotive' hurt kitten' trigger here. We're talking about the 'Northern Soul' "thing" here.

Even behind bars such hysteria phenomenon is not only an 'embarrassing' sight for the eye but can provoke serious 'ear bleed' damage... Poor Bobby.

You're right. My bad. It's reading the Stuart Maconie story from the leaflet that left the Wigan 'imprint' in my mind...

Thanks for that less painful overview of the 'playlist' of the gig as I couldn't really find the 'guts' to hear it all TBH. Now I can relate better to what is said about the 'final' selection and the discussions about it. And it's true there's some good tunes In there. Not all for sure but few. Some good ones even if they're all overplayed records. But as a whole to represent what was emblematic of the BIG Wigan sounds I think not.

Yes by September 1966 with Calla 119 the change of address for the label HQ was effective. The Orlons Calla 113 releases with confusing T. Bell and J. Wisner involvement is tricky indeed. Is this revealing of some struggle or just pure confusion with the change of adresses and all... With 'spinning top' being our 'stronger' side as a NS tune but also not a "dull" cover of sumthin... First issued in May 1966 as the 'A' side it was re-released as the 'B' side post September 1966. And there's a BUT indicating what could be another 'twist' in the struggle between them sides... The sole promo copy from May 1966 with the old address presents 'spinning top' as the 'B' side !

Two pressing plants involved. Then the 'A' side press has for Co-Producers Jackson & Wisner while the 'B' side press has Jackson & Thomas Bell ! There's more to it than just 'A' and 'B' side issues between the two pressings that were likely not soi simultaneous as they show some 'inner' push'N'shove between Jimmy Wisner and Thom Bell apparently.

Yes, very true. Indicating 3 NS circuits and even more scenes, crowd and generations maybe. Or at times certainly. - The Nighters. Pick the ones suiting you or venture to find out. The 'format' that started it all for an alternative to the "regular" 'in-crowd discotheque or the "scruffys" rock'N'roll promised ear-bleeds. The format that kept on for the die-harders after the "fashion" passed-on after the Wigan shut-down. And the format that also gave more room to new sounds. - The Week-Enders. This thing came up to establish anew format that could allow (financially too) to put together gigs and different dee-jays from different horizons and their followers when the scene was scattered and running low on die-harders scattered all over the UK (and further) unable to attend different nighters. Inspired some by the scooterist scene ? - The 'non-homesick' Tourism NS package-deals. Mixing the family thing to the tribe, the clan or the cult or anything you wanna call it. These sort of events came last in line in the 9T's. indicating likely that for some the NS experience had to embrace even more than music only... And taking it all even further away from those whose wages could not afford that. On a side note when you say dedicated fans I believe you're really talking about NS fans right ? Well I see different sorts there rather than just the one kind. Just because IMB a 'fan' is a bit pathetic. It's the 'living for it' kind. There are those out there I know but hopefully we get to meet very different people out there who have other approach to it all. Regardless of any sorts of NS events today, there's not one NS scene anymore. But only different tribes, clans or cult variations maybe. With each their NS 'fans' (= punters ?), 'dancers' (not athletic necessary but that took NS dancing classes), collectors (or music freaks) and dee-jays. Young (few) or old (a lot). Not rich (few) and deep-pockets (a lot). One can say there were always different scenes under one NS flag. All with their own dee-jays, sounds, clubs and circuits with more than rivalry at times with bad 'disputes' too. True but the thing is that today the scene that survived 'underground' during the 8T's & the 9T's when the scene was running 'low' was not made much of all that anymore... Then you had that flood of "new comers" (or come back-ers) that didn't get all that happened in between that shook some those who remained passionate and attended differently the scene. Two 'currents' running opposite with one submerging the other. Odd to hear 'older' folks talking about 'saving' the 'heritage'... That's not how heritage works.

Just read the 'leaflet' program (only not the unecessary 'artists' pedigree) handed at those who attended the show. Typical today's gibberish on a "friendly" tone mixing little facts with untrue myths and the "humble" 'me, myself and I' I taught I knew it all but not. Nothing essential if not for the undisclosed aim to make it all available to the bigger world. Or in their other words to bring it out from the 'dark ages' and out 'into the light'. Things that makes you go 'Mmmh'. Like a soap advert or some floss thing making it 'commercially' acceptable. That which many of the most committed and passioned condemned with the 'commercialism' attempt of the then of the NS phenomenon by the mid seventies. Begging to wonder why such criticism beyond the 'artistry' performance, to appreciate or not (more of that later), is not a valid argument to be made if heard at all anymore. While all the 'warning signs' are out there for all to see ; the ads, the buzz, the 'bling-bling'. But maybe this is where 'nostalgia-land' magic happens for some. Just like 'happiness' pills. Where those 'not under influence', a few or the fewer seemingly, try to warn from 'the fooling'. To no avail and only little reaction. Oh well. Now the music ; made by people not at all in soul music, even less into northern soul, resulting as what can only expect to be MUZAK that turned out to be exactly that. Music to be played at low volume in public places. And exactly this as Joe Duddel co-curator/arranger states with his difficulty to sort out an 'end' to the actual 'fade out' on the sometimes 'poor quality of the recordings' (wait until he ears some of the other stuffs we dig other than the selection he was given) actually says of what those involved 'in the artistry' of this project makes-out of that 'soul' edge... And I have no problem if some dig that. Just like other musical genres. MUZAK even have their fans. Some of the 'rare' library recordings are even good. Still this here will never be even considered by those deep into that. Here it's only is a selection of some of the good and bad northern soul TOP 500 made into lush MUZAK lacking edges from all sides. If some find this here an incredible artistry performance. Fine it is. And yet I tried to listen to the radio playback online but I couldn't for more than a few minutes at a time and I heard NO SOUL at all. Nor groove nor guts. Only flat, bland, unpassionate pastiche covers of NS tunes all soul-less. Some singers were dramatic 'opera style'. That's still not soul.

OK I hear you and respect your (as others) path, memories and make-out of what it was. So go on and celebrate (if one fancy that 🥳) or commemorate (I've read that... strange as it's a term aimed for political institution - people might commemorate Elton John one day 🥶) the Wigan Casino 'Hey-Day's of the past. Plenty of such big events happening surfing on that 'past vibe' celebration. Rarely commenting those as to each its own and that's that. Yet never my thing. But here it's a well promoted (financed, in a fashion (what's not to like or on the contrary) and made 'politically correct' acceptable (meaning in liberal language ; commercial) event made by the BBC (not sacred to me) for public broadcast. That makes it evidently open to one and all point of views, critics and more evidently. And just as it's always been the BBC policy to review the public 'critics' on their programs. So I don't see it's 'spoiling' one's pleasure to comment it. As for the 'tune selection' fine if one feels that they are not 'over sensitive' matters. Truly I still love my 'guilty secrets' records like the invitations 'skying in the snow' or others so I can't be bothered with that 'beneficial' factor if ever. As for the interpretation in performance that's where to me they sounded as good as the Wigan's Ovation. Just sharing what my earbuds heard. So I'll leave others who enjoyed it. We're all used to that between mates with what one loves...

Very pleasant indeed my dear 🧓 Tidy, polite and very British aren't we all... Just how we like it 🤓 A proper family telly time. Reminiscing how grant were those Wigan's Ovation 🤪 A little bit of good old nostalgia can be so exulting 😉

Don't know about the "cashing in" factor on such events. Seems more like some 'win-win' kind of thing. With one promoting the venue and the other doing it's thing. Money to be made yes but nothing to reach for the sky I believe. As Paul stated to me this is the antinomy of what I love from the scene back then or the ones (more than one) before my time but read and heard about. Whatever is -that- "scene" today I truly don't care. Unlike music and records. Certainly never those records, nor such venues, never on 'pre-fab' package-deals and even less at that cost. While Paul set the 'parabole' into esoteric gore with the 'ghost' paralleling to me this is merely a Bourgeois 'vamp' of NS.

He's 'Guest randy' then. Thanks for that 👍

Paul Who ?

Just been checking (first time 4 me) the Mutt discography and open-sourced 'comments' on 45Cat.com and can now tell you that the Sophisticates on Mutt is early to mid 1967. I seriously doubt it to be hazardous or even less erroneous as the following release by garage band the Ruins is seriously documented in length by protagonists interviews. Listening to the singings (no proof of much FWIW but part of the 'hints') and indeed the Cali Sophisticates on Sonny and Underground Sound are different in every way. So the Mutt Michigan act is likely as you inclined 'unique'. Still to my ears and eyes the Sonny 1001 and following Underground Sound 1002 of the Cali girls sounds rather early 7T's. But Cali progressive's rep and approach can be misleading some. Although on the Underground Sound label the date 1967 appears as Copyright. But what does that mean ? Is it for the label's name like some did ? For such a one-off sole release for the label it is rather odd to do something like that. Who knows what lead them to do that in the first place...

Yeah you're right. I went up too fast here. Not my best day as with all that went a bit hectic and so I enact in a 'rush' along with all that went on. Not how I like to do things. So yes the Sonny and Underground are the same group for sure. Not knowing for fact who are the Mutt or the Janus Sophisticates. The Inkster still predates them others IMO and could have evolved and moved out to greater landscapes but who are we to speculate on that ? Or maybe not all the same. Now the Janus Sophisticates sessions could also be Californian too in regard of Ron Carson involvement. While H.B. Barnum went all over the place but did a lot of Cal work. As for Art Freeman and Carla Thomas I can't say if they flew... But again this is totally hypothetic as speculative. As my ears don't hear much of a Cali "flow" there. And to be honest I would have bet more some kind of a Philly thing (especially for the B-side) but 7T's sound can be very fooling IME. So as you rightfully corrected me (although asking if I knew any better but none the wiser) it would be safer for the moment to consider that the Mutt, Janus and evidently the early Viva release to be different acts until we know better.