Tlscapital

I've asked Mark Forest if he'd be willing to share his pre-release matrix on here... Wait and see. Once I had the RPR distributed ATAC of Gino but was so put off by the mastering (I knew that the pickring guitar intro was shorter on this pressing for 'I'll be around') that lacked all the necassary Ooomph that the local ATAC has there ! Indicating that it was completely re-mastered for that press. From memory all even the vinyl looked like Monarch. Begging to very seriously doubt that theory (somehow 🎃) of the vinyl pressed up at Archer and re-mastered there too. Then sent to L.A. for a labeling at Monarch... I don't have that RPR distributed ATAC 45 anymore but I can ask the friend who I sold it to to bring it along for his next visit. But like you I can't make up why the 'ARCHER' matrix on this RPR... Interesting though. Bringing me back to another question I had in chronology ; Gino's 'I'll be around' came out first on Mala. But then what ? ATAC local or distributed by RPR ? On ATAC/RPR first came 'doing the popcorn' 101 then 'I'll be around' 102 while on the local ATAC 'I'll be around' came out first then 'doing the popcorn'. Putting the ATAC/RPR first. And we know that the RPR distributed deal didn't work too much for Gino. Even less than the Mala deal I believe judging by the number of stockers of Gino's on RPR. Especially the 'I'll be around'. But sadly there's nothing to be found ou there that tells the miserable commercial story of this fabulous 'I'll be around' tune and the 3 consecutive pressings it received.

Hi Mark, would you be so kind to pull out your pre-release copy and check if your matrix reads exatly the same as the one given by Robbk from his Perfecta copy ? His reads "AT 2880" - "Archer 243" - "Detroit" etched in the runout groove. What about yours ?

Scroll down & zoom in all it took. It was there under our noses all that time. Well dear Watson it seems to me that this corroborate pretty well all that's been said before and that this wraps it up. Meaning I guess this resolves it. Thanks a bunch Y'all. Tim

Right, thanks Robbk but although I read that post of yours and remembered that, still I focused on Mark Forest answer in regard of his whiite label pre-release Atac copy and lost that there. My bad. And thank you for resetting this post on track. Now your machined 'ARCHER' and following '243 Detroit' matrix explaination should indeed suffice to ask Mark if he has the same on his pre-release (which I believe it will be) but this also indicates once and for all that it's an American release. The machined 'ARCHER' stamp matrix indicate a sixties or early seventies pressing I imagine. Right ? Like that I have no recollection of seventies records baring such a stamper. Would you happen to know when they stopped their activity ?

OK, going by the Atac catalog on '45Cat' I now realize that Gino's 'oh no not me' on Atac AT2878 followed by Tim Daugherty's Atac AT2879 and LOGICALY followed by Gino's 'I lost you (girl)' AT2880 on Perfecta would sort of makes sense since all those sessions feature the Theo& Coff / Washington joint venture sessions. Going by the labels typos both these Atac 45 are clearly from the same pressing plant. But this very Perfecta of 'I lost you (girl)' not. And I can't see any other Gino's own labels with similar prints. Could this indicate a Canadian pressing ? Might get a Perfecta copy here. Would be good to compare matrixes with your Atac pre-release then. But still can we rely on Gino's logics in catalog numbring's chronology ? Gino's Atac AT2828 'I'm so in love with you' would then predate those. Never possible that. Given dates on "open sourced" sites like '45Cat' or discogs dates this 1975 ? I don't know. Going by 'gut feeling' it could have been earlIer like a 1972/3 release. Perfecta SW2870 (one of Gino's other cataloging SW : Sir Washington ?) is clearly 1969/1970. While Gino's Atac SW2824 (late 1968) with 'I'll be around (whenever you want me)' own release on Atac followed by his 'doing the popcorn' on Atac SW2825 (early 1969) and finally 'here I am' SW2826 still on Atac gives us a string of 3 easy fits. Goes to show that sometimes his cataloging is logical to the human mind and at other times to his only maybe if ever. Looking at that Tim's oddbal of a record begs me only to know if his version of 'flying high' is the same to the Gino's credited ones. Is it ? If so that would be the very first release out of 4 for that 'hippydom' tune of his.

Well this outing of 1977 would be his second time at it then ; Sir George. And this one is on his 100% own Atac label if ever the G&G was not that... Featuring the same flip as the 'A' side on the G&G release 'flying high' but here as the 'B' side.

Macho, mean and so not fit for today's politicaly correct order of the day. I've always loved it 😉 Mind you I like to think that I am the opposite like a lady's man. Most of the time that is... LOL !

Here I know of only 2 Perfecta 45 ; AT2880 ' I lost you girl' '& SW2870 'football'

Yes, my gut feeling too somehow. The playback sound quality although of the G&G press is pretty good (likely done with the real masters) FWIW so it's not your full-on trashy bootleg by any means. That could then have be done by that Canadian Glenn guy to cash on both tunes 'flying high' and 'I lost you girl'. But the whole "package" and as you pointed out the 'Sir George' crediential is kind of misleading I agree. Leaving it open for such speculation for example. The Canadian press theory for the G&G is only a theory picked-up from memory of a long gone John Maniship auction blurb... Nothing definate.

Thought about that but last & first name ? But until something better or more conclusive comes along why not consider that in the meantime. What photography BTW ?

Right Perfecta is first then. G&G later or much later. At least that is official now. We have Robbk testimony as rock solid proof 🥷 Important that is to begin with. Although the other Perfecta single we know the existance of ; Gino Washington's 'hey football' is rather a late sixties or early seventies recording and pressing too. Giving a date of recording for 'I lost you girl' is another matter. But the flip of the Perfecta 'you should have been true' is supposedly from 1971 egg. Norton comp. Making it as I believe an early seventies pressing. His ATAC label lasted up to 1985 FWIW. Then he had few ATAC International releases up to 1989 at least.

The Perfecta features 'you're should have been true' on the B'side that is more raw, brute punk-funk than funk IMO. But you're right it was sought after by some funk collectors back then. It's the only 7" release for that tune mind you.

Anyone know the story behind the G&G release credited to Sir George ? The Perfecta release would be an American pressing featuring the odd quote 'produced by W. Glenn Record Co. Canada'. Perfecta also saw another release 'hey footbal' making it part of Gino's stable of labels with the uncany cataloging numbers and extensions that is so typical of him. Now I kind of wonder if the Perfecta came out first. Which I'm lead to believe it is. Featuring complete informations on the label for one. Where the G&G release info on the label is like left blank... For two the design and all of that G&G press doesn't look that old like the Perfecta is. Although I'm yet to have a Perfecta copy in the hand to tell better from close. The fact that these G&G copies popped out in numbers Mint like 'new old stocks' somewhere in the mid nineties I seem to remember (or were they just pressed-up back then ?) is also intruiging. Featuring 'flying high' as the 'A' side that came out on the flip 'I'm so in love' (early seventies) and on the flip of 'could it be that I'm falling in love' in 1977 both on Atac. Either way these G&G presses have now dried up and command big enough money for those who wish to own the beautiful, sweet'N'hypnotic 'I lost you girl' on 7". I vaguely remember something claiming that these G&G were Canadian pressings. Was it in a John Manship auction 'blurb' or something like that I can't be certain but that's what I recall. Anyone ?

Do You Love Me (Indeed I Do) LOL ! Mash-Up time.

As far of pressing variation it's as rare as any of it's American pre counterparts IME. Once you'll start to seek any of the 4 variants (2 pressing plants involved for both the promos or the stockers leaving the rarest of them all aside ; the Canadian one) any will prove hard to come by. Especially in very clean condition IME too. The legend of "the rarer" mispelt title dates way back before 'thintenet' days. Back then the record collector's rumours was that it was much rarer. When such odities would make generic geeky collectors go 'Whoooo' with such a maccabre title. To the pleasure of ambitious record dealers pushing up the commanding value. And to crown it all Motown had few "rarer" titles in stock to keep Motown collectors (big wallet) into the game. Because this Linda Griner 45 was played on the Pop-Corn scene back in the seventies as well.

Frank Wilson's 'do I love you' became that & more. In 1966 it was initialy another Motown record. Featuring still a fabulous Funk Bros. backing track and a good composition. Maybe a bit unusual with it's like 'football' "sing-along/gospel" choruses chant... That appeared on a very rare withrdrawn release to achieve cult status in this then underground northern soul scene. Now part of a commercial 'folklore' and an auction 'joke' record. Now part of newer bad comedies. Connie Clark 'my sugar baby' I never liked.

The Bruce character is fine. His MOR pop/rock was bareable FWIW. But his soul singing is out of his reach IMHO & covering up looked-up classics is always very hazardous for any artist. Here his take of 'do I love you' is pitiful from the few opening bars and what follows is plainly only very painful to listen to. I had to stop the clip... But that is exactly what northern soul is to many outside the "scene" at least and even few inside I am certain. As sad as it is there is (always was but it's coming back strong) a "dark" side to the northern soul scenary 😱

Avoid at all costs !!! Not a "political" statement as such. Like anti-China manufactured cheap tech junk sold by major Co. even if it is all that too. No more seriously it did not pass-on unoticed and has been subject of well behaved mockery on non pedant dedicated phono forums evidently. Why ? Cause with one look one can see that everything's wrong with it. Then digging further in the tech specs (for the few given) it's laughable. A 2nd hand eighties revised turntable will cost less or about and perform much better. Life span expentancy of this Ikea turntable ? Very few years.

James Taylor parted from the T.S.U. Tornadoes to later go into fooitball with the Houston 'Oilers'...

After travelling the world with his music he now visits other 'realms'... Bless you Ram +

Hi John yes I'm in Belgium. With this OP I was asking openly to reassure a worried UK buyer as he wouldn't take extra costs to retrieve it from his mail man. Now he's reassured some. All good there. Well discogs service has seriously worsen since Covid and it's restrictions. Apparently with the purchases online they grew up and now their customer/seller service is like that of any administration : Crap. Merely a help desk with incompetant cheap "punching ball" labor repeating pre-formated answers for any situation. But only never understanding what they're talking about while thinking they know it all. Only not at all. A bit like the spoiled brat (AKA the Boris) had at the head of that nation thinking that Brexit was the new "cool" without looking further what it'll bring with it all. Only not "cool". And am not pro-EU ! On the contrary. Now on discogs I've shared dreadfull issues with outside EU sellers since with their pre-charged %21 Import VAT that with the Belgium Customs and Postal services just don't work. With few sellers losing little or more money in that. Others challenging their trust with EU buyers and hopefully few enlighten ones with discogs now. With whom I deal directly with since for cleaner business. discogs is about to just get worse than the EvilBay in some regards. Evidently Belgium is once again the worse country applying that "newly" implemented EU tax import regulation sucking on people's money. In Belgium Import duties are now due starting at €0,01 value. Not €22 anymore. If mark ask 'gift' maybe not... That's vague to say the least. Then if Import VAT is applicable handling fees are too. Beginning at €15 !!! Only those MEGA internet seller's site with an IOSS number and capable to transfer the prepaid Import duties datas through the ITMATT system to the Belgium Post won't be subject to the VAT Customs all over again. Meaning the others will. Like EvilBay sellers able to use the previously hated (by me at least) Pitney Bowes shipping service will have access to that service. Others not ! EU Institution regulations & Company...

Not being on that end side of the channel I have no experiment with that from within the UK. And so we are seeking help on how that works since Brexit. Could anybody let us know if the recipient will be charged by the British Customs to pay some Import duties of any kind on such a low valued declared item ? From what I remember reading a while ago I think that not. But for the buyer's sake could someone with such experience enlighten us and put him out of his misery ? LOL. Thanks

Real nice Ex copy with minimal wear and small '72 WOL' on 'A' side as shown on scan. With soundclip from actual copy for sale. Free P&P included in the price. jimmy jone.mp3

Right-On ! I do love my Duke 45's candy (promo) pink 😊 No one's word has authority beyond fact checking in my book. And never in regard of subjective matter. Not Richard nor anyone I'd be looking up to if ever FWIW. Got my Minty (decades ago) promo Paula copy for peanuts and was more happy with it's playback than from the Contempo copy I clearly remember. Even with the extra distortions I was getting on my then Mid-Fi phono. As for the "nostalgia" factor I get that but I don't work like that. There are people out there who kept all they had all along. Others look them up as 'Northen soul' artifacts like patches, beer-mats, talcum... It's a trip. Not me. All my Contempos are long gone like every other Grapevine, Destiny etc. I could replace. But if one prefers the tamed down playback rendition that's fine. To each it's own and I respect that. Although I stand at the opposite

I only have the UK Soul City (cheap find) but I have that many Back Beat 45 that sounds totally fine I can't see why the Shirley Lawson one wouldn't be fine... But the mastering on the UK copy is indeed high in gain and maybe 'beafier' likely because it was dubbed from the Back Beat copy with all the controls in the 'red' again. Meaning a second time (like double) in the red. Making it sound a tad too harsh for me. Mind you those Godin's masterings were all rather good in that way. Loud yet a bit rough. In the tradition of UK Sue's for example. In comparison with many UK contemporary couterparts from the American release that sound much less dynamic, vibrant and loud even if less saturating.