Roburt

I'm obviously a bit older then the others posting on this thread. My fairground days were in 1964/65. The big sounds I recall getting played all the time back then were the Drifters "Under The Boardwalk" & "Come On Over To My Place" , Lee Dorsey's "Get Out My Life Woman", M & V's "Dancing In The Street" plus Cliff Bennett "One Way Love", Them's "Here Comes The Night" & "Baby Please Don't Go", Righteous Bros "Lovin Feeling" & Moody Blues "Go Now".

I recall a photo posted on the net about 10 years ago of a record warehouse (?) in somewhere like Nigeria where there were 1000's of albums / 45's strewn all over the floor of a very large room & a guy trying to sort thru them all. In the 70's, west African music was very influenced by US funk sounds, so there should be loads of funky local cuts from those times & a little afterwards. ALSO, quite a few US soul acts toured Sth Africa in the 70's, 80's with a few of them even recording there (I have a couple of Sth African recorded albums, one being a decent effort from C L Blast from 1982).

Was this one of the first signs of interest in rare soul 45's in this country ... .... letter written in Feb / March 1970; published by B&S in April 70 ...

A few Mayfield tracks ...

Anyone know how Rudy Love came to give the Persuaders his song "Hey Sister" and also how he came to play on their 'It's All About Love' album (Calla; 76).

Although he started out as a reputable booking agent, bringing many top soul stars to the UK to tour, Roy Tempest morphed into just about the most notorious guys on the UK music scene from August 67. Starting with the Fabulous Temptations (Velours) & the Original Drifters (Invitations), he started to book fake groups on UK tours. The groups didn't know what was happening at first, in fact when Sam, Erv & Tom (the Diplomats) turned up to play a UK club in October 67 they saw a poster advertising the Isley Brothers. Great said Sam, we're friends with those guys ... and then he was told that THEY were the Isley Brothers that night. Anyway, Roy Tempest was making bigger profits from his 'fake group' tours than he was from booking the likes of Garnett Mimms, the Coasters, Larry Williams & Johnny Watson, Solomon Burke, etc. So he kept bringing (mainly) New York based groups over here to tour, advertising them as a more famous outfit. Beacon Records put a 45 out here on the 1st March 68; the Show Stoppers -- Ain't Nothing But A House Party (originally Apple Records were gonna license the track).. Before the end of March it was on the UK pop Top 40 chart and an immediate opportunity presented itself to Roy T. The group were quickly brought over to the UK on a lightning trip to promote the cut & they appeared on Top of the Pops on 18th April (68). A quick dash around a number of UK music mags for interviews, etc and it was time to return to Philly. But the 45 continued to climb the pop charts till that May, the track was filling dance floors in every UK club / ballroom ... but the group weren't here to fill the demand for them to play live gigs. In stepped, Roy T and a group were booked to play a UK tour; the International Showstoppers. They sang "Ain't Nothing But A House Party" and lots of other recent US soul hits to good audience reaction. But the Showstoppers they weren't. In fact they were actually a New York based group, the Internationals. Returning to New York, the group landed a record deal with D-Or Recording (no doubt, mentioning their recent successful UK tour). In 69 they had a 45 out ("Give A Damn") and this sold well locally. A 2nd 45 followed in 1970 ("Beautiful Philosophy"). But the group members weren't getting on and they also came into dispute with their manager. The group effectively broke up with 2 members leaving the group. But 2 new members were added; Charles Stodghill and (briefly) Richard Poindexter joining and under a new name (the Persuaders) the new outfit was soon enjoying even greater success( on Win Or Lose / Atco). Joe Coleman was to become a member of the rejigged group in the mid 70's, joining the outfit when True Reflection (1972 - 75) broke up. After his brief spell as a Persuader, he joined Mirage who cut for RCA (1978). He was also a member of the Platters but by the early 80's he'd gone solo. Members of all the groups involved hade enjoyed success at various times & many of their old group /solo recordings have stood the test of time well. Some of them have even been reissued due to continued demand for some of the old tracks. HAS ANYONE DONE a full group history / timeline that makes the above unfolding story more clear & easy to understand ? ALSO, does anyone remember seeing the group when they performed live in the UK in 1968. ? Fine deep soul from the Internationals ...

Nola 45 -- Nov 65 Atlantic 45 -- Feb 65 "Walking" was the B side to TEASIN YOU on both releases.

Any idea when it was booted ? 1973 / 74 / 75 ?

Known in the UK from early 1967 when it escaped here on Cameo Parkway. Was played in UK soul clubs from it being a new release but was never (to my knowledge) a top sound back then. But coz it was a release on the iconic C/P UK label, was always much sought after by UK soul collectors on UK 45. It seems though, that when it did go 'big' in NS circles, that many UK copies of the 45 were played by the then DJ's as a C/U. Seemed a pointless exercise to me but I guess to the 'Torch / Casino' generation, it wasn't (initially) a well known sound (with 70's niter goers). The tempo of the track (100mph stomper) made it more popular as a floor-filler in the 70's. The B side is a much better song. Sorry, can't answer your boot question.

Barbados & Canada have had strong links (both musical & otherwise) since the 50's. Barbados has always (well for well over 100 years) been more 'British' than the UK. Many Bajans fought for us in WW2 & others were amongst the 1st of the Windrush folk, but that's by the by. Canada was (50's / 60's) also very British but also very cold in the winters (which are about 6 months long). So to escape their winters, many 'better off' Canadians bought holiday homes on the island & spent much of the winter there (towns like Holetown have whole areas of small villas that were built for & bought by Canadians). With lots of Canadians spending 8 to 12 weeks on the island each year, it was only natural that romantic relationships would develop. Many new 'couples' wanted to stay together, so would move to Canada, still spending the winter back in the Caribbean. A two way relationship soon developed & Bajans started to move to Canada for education purposes and more. Many Bajan singers relocated to Canada, which took over from Jamaica & the UK as the No.1 place for musically talented folk to relocate to. Many other local singers did head off to Miami / New York or the UK, but many made Canada their home. Canada always made it easy for Bajans to move there (unlike the UK) & nearly always made them welcome (unlike the UK). Each year the islanders celebrate CROP-OVER & lots of Emigrants return home to see family members. Lots of the singers , musicians also head back home to perform at the many musical events staged in that period. In the 80's & 90's lots of the best 'soul' music to come out of Canada was recorded by Bajans or the kids of ex-Bajans. I know lots of those recordings were highlighted at the time in soul mags like Steve G's New Blackbeat. Sadly, most of that music & those artists slipped quickly back into obscurity.

Of course it did; everything played before the Casino was just 'youth club' records; not niter sounds ... 🤣😂🤣😂

Decks, speakers & amplification moved ahead at the fast pace from the late 60's thru to the mid 70's. Of course, not every venue kept up with the times & some had sound systems that were crap. The 'power' (wattages on the amplification) of systems in the mid 60's was quite low but I don't recall the sound in clubs such as the Mojo, Nite Owl or Wheel being that low-fi (but I was young at the time & it was a very long time ago). Of course, being small cellar type rooms meant you didn't really need massive wattages.

Beg to differ to your closing statement. WORST YEARS FOR NS QUALITY >> 75, 76, 77, 78 ..... obviously some good sounds were discovered & played, but in general the quality was sh*te. Decent stuff started to take over again in the early 80's (Clifton Halls) & continued thru the Stafford / 100 Club years.

Drop the Torch spot BUT REPLACE IT WITH a Clifton Halls section. It was the Clifton Halls that drove the scene forward in the early 80's (& helped bring the Casino era to an end).

Cleveland himself thought it was a priceless 45 ...

A fascinating tale that brings to the surface many underhand things that have occurred in the music biz down the years. Bobby Sanders was certainly an operator who knew his way round most aspects of the music biz. No doubt (in common with the likes of Don Robey), he used his knowledge / power to his own advantage on many occasions. I know there were numerous members of groups who were sent out to perform as the Younghearts / New Younghearts who had a low opinion of Bobby S. But then, no doubt in HIS early years in the biz, Bobby was ripped off himself at times. As they say .... fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Maybe he thought he was due a few 'breaks' later on in his career to make up for earlier events when he had been ripped off. It could well be that the Cool Sounds, being a Bobby Sanders managed group, followed the same path as the Younghearts / New Younghearts and had an ever changing line up. From their 1969 Pulsar 45, thru their Pick-A-Hit 45 and onto their 3 x WB 45's ... those releases escaping over a 3 year period, the group could have had numerous different members. WB in the period 1970 to 74 seemed to put out a real mix of assorted pop, folk, rock & soul, with no real direction to their release strategy. Also, many singles got a release but didn't seem to get any promotion at all. A WB promotions man, visiting radio stns to gain plays on the companies latest releases must have had an almost impossible job -- did he spend all his time at pop radio stns who had the largest audiences (though few of them would playlist the label's obscure soul releases) or did he also visit some big R&B stns to push just the label's 'black' releases with them. I have no idea how the promotion dept at WB was staffed during those years & how those staff worked at the time. It would be fascinating to find out more about this subject. From 1970 to 75, all the major labels (CBS, WB, RCA, Capitol, United Artists, etc) were signing up soul artists from indie black labels, but many had no idea how to market those acts effectively. The likes of Atlantic, ABC, Phillips / Mercury and more had been servicing the R&B / black market for a good while & in many cases, seemed to make a better job of things. Then just as they had an established roster of soul acts; disco took over. I know a few 'strange things' surrounded the 1973 WB 45 release credited to Lou Ragland (Since You Said You'd Be Mine), not least the fact that it was recorded by the group Lou led at the time & not by a solo Lou.. . . Reprise was a WB label & they seemed to follow a similar haphazard release policy to WB itself. Singles were released by the label on the likes of the Hypnotics (an outside production by Kent Washburn) in 73, on Barbara Lewis (an outside production) also in 73 and by Life (an outside production) in 74 ... BUT no effort at all seemed to go into promoting these releases or gaining decent sales figures on any of them. Why bother signing these outside productions up if you were just gonna let them all 'wither on the vine'.

So why are you bothering to comment if you didn't even watch the show ? How can you know what it was like if you didn't watch it ? Listened to most of tonight's show & quite enjoyed it. What's the name of the NZ lady that's done a cover of "If This Is Love" ?

The vocals on display on the night @ the RAH were far better than any of the original artists could have produced at the event (as many are dead, whilst all the other's voices would have changed so much down the years that they wouldn't have been able to reproduce their own old performances anymore). AN EXAMPLE OF THIS ... I brought Lou Ragland over to the UK to tour in 1990. One of the gigs he did was at the Old Trout (?) in Windsor. The crowd there wanted his old 60's / 70's songs but they also wanted his London 2 Step anthem "Makin Love". He sang over backing tapes but still managed to do a good job. Some guys approached me afterwards & said "Why was he miming to "Making Love" .. he wasn't I said ... but it sounded exactly like the record, vocally & instrumentally, whereas the other tracks didn't. That's coz he cut "Making Love" for his own label, so still had the original backing track available & he only recorded the song 5 years ago, so his vocal delivery are still the same. The other songs were to new backing tracks he'd made and his voice has changed over the 24 or so years since he originally cut the tracks. They went away but I still don't think they believed me.

Way Out's Joan Bias also sang for us @ our Vegas soul nite (Lou looked her up; she was living in a trailer park outside Vegas) ...

We did have a great time. Got in trouble with the wife though as she was hoping for at least a couple of nights when I would take just her to a decent restaurant. As it was, the other soulies kept saying ... you know XXXX, get in touch & see if he's / his group is doing a show. If so, you can take us along !!! So that's what kept happening, instead of a quiet meal for two. PLUS, I kept getting in trouble for writing out the days events after we'd returned to the hotel each night, had to do my scribblings in the room's bathroom in the end, so the light would be off in the bed area. Met some great folk on the trip & made a few friends for life. Best Brit guys among the throng; Bernie O'Brien who helped organise things, Dave 'Snapper' Needham (his illness had kicked in & he kept saying I'll slow you all down, coz I'm feeling weak, but ne never did. The other lads played tricks on him though; at the Motown Cafe he bought loads of stuff ... returned to show us it all .. another lad said ... did you get the Brit's discount (there wasn't one) & off he went back into their shop to claim a refund. The Motown Cafe was struggling a bit (numbers wise), so when I'd made contact with them to say a whole bunch of Brits will be in next week, they laid out the red carpet. We got an extensive backstage tour, were introduced to the places male & female groups and then allowed up on stage with them (as dancers / backing singers). Donny's own John Phillips (& Carol) were also fine folk. One of the other top guys was Glen Hunter (Macce Lad .. R.I.P.) ... we had arranged for tickets in the front row for the Isley Bros show. Angela Winbush was with an Isley at the time & also performing on the show. On a romantic number, she crouched down on the edge of the stage, took Glen's hand & sang the whole song to him. Needless to say, next morning I had to take him to the nearest CD shop so he could buy a copy of her album. Glen was also a massive Star Trek fan, so he sneaked off one day to go to the Star Trek Experience @ the Hilton Hotel.

Going back to PROVE YOURSELF A LADY ... this is the only mention the 45 got in Billboard mag (early June 67). ... the 45 was in a listing of new 45 releases ... but in the pop section, not in the R&B section ... GO FIGURE ... other 45 releases that week (competing for your $ / £) ... Arthur Conley, Darrell Banks, Exciters, Fabulous Pack (Harlem Shuffle), Terry Knight (who was employing Lou Ragland to back him, after he'd sacked the Fab Pack), Ben E King, Major Lance, Billy Butler, James Brown, Emperors, Spinners, Bobby Wells, Billy Harner, Checkmates Ltd, Willie Hightower, Peoples Choice, Inspirations (all listed in the pop section) + the 7 x 45's reviewed in the actual R&B section ... If anyone had picked up on James Bounty's 45 from that, they were a lot better man than I was ...

I don't dispute your opinion on SLOW FIZZ. Needless to say, I never heard it played at a niter / soul club in the time I owned the 45. If I had, then the beat may have outweighed my dislike for it's lyrics. I wasn't a Casino goer & lots of what got played there did little for me, so maybe I would still have had a low opinion of the track. I never liked many 100 mph stompers, being in my mid twenties by the time Wigan sounds went big. PLUS I was always a massive deep soul fan & always preferred tracks where the tempo wasn't too fast to allow the singer to inject feeling / passion into their delivery. Also, I was always a 100% collector. I did DJ occasionally but never really bought anything specifically to DJ with. I was buying from the likes of Randys Rec Shop & Ray Averys in the US in the 60's (+ from F L Moores from when he started up in Leighton Buzzard), so got a few import only biggies 'ahead of the curve' at decent prices (Kittens on Chess, Invitations, Art Freeman, Fuller Bros, etc.) but I'd gotten lucky with lots of those coz mates put me on to them early on.

Don't forget there was no internet, very little UK knowledge of small US indie soul labels, no knowledge at all of James Bounty or the record label back then. PYaL was James 1st release & Compass (though it had been in existence since early 67) hadn't yet gained a UK outlet when James' 45 was released. That was remedied when Helena Ferguson's "Where Is The Party" escaped here late in 67. I bought a UK copy of HF's London release but it didn't set me off on a quest to track down other releases on the label. I guess if I'd have seen a Compass 45 on a UK dealers auction mailing list back then, I'd have bid low on it (as was my policy back in the late 60's / early 70's on blind bids on unknown soul stuff). We were 'young & dumb' back then, had little spare cash & didn't even have the knowledge or cash to buy BILLBOARD mag to scan their entries on soul release. If we had, we'd have seen PYaL listed as a new 45 release (3/7/67) and then James getting a mention in a piece about Compass Records (about them picking up the Helena F 45 for release -- 29/7/67).. James 45 sold in small amounts & so 3 years later the 45 would have been included on record warehouse lists for a few cents a copy ... BUT we wouldn't have known to add it to our orders. No doubt a few copies were in the UK by 69/70/71 but I guess the guys that had them weren't Wheel goers & therefore not able to say on the night ... I KNOW WHAT THIS IS, IT'S .... PLUS there's a big difference in what sounds were appreciated at the Wheel and what would become big at the Casino (though I'm sure JB's 45 would have gone big if it's ID had been known instantly & numerous copies were therefore imported into the UK back then). . . . AN INSTANCE OF THIS ... I loved the Sapphires "Gotta Have Your Love" from it's HMV release and loved much soul released on ABC in the States. An auction list arrived with a different Sapphires 45 on it (another ABC release). I bid 2/11 or a similar sum & won it. I had no idea what I'd bought, it arrived, I played it and didn't like it. The lyrics were crap, banal & senseless (by 69/70, dance lyric songs were out of favour as old hat). So it went in my 'rejects box" and I sold it to a guy at college around 12 months later (at a profit). THUS I had dumped an early copy of "Slow Fizz" that had made it to the UK. Never regretted the fact either (though I did wish I'd kept it till it was a big sound & I could have got a lot more for my copy).

That Joe Wilson 45 was the 1st time I'd seen any release from Malaco.

Isn't it an Israeli LP ? ... believe JB (sock it to em) was the 1st person to get a copy in the UK.