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Roburt

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  1. I just checked on 45cat & the Aussie version of the 45 uses the 2nd US mix (75313). I'd guess they sourced this via the UK (being an EMI Australia release), so that seems to indicate that the version used in the UK would have been 75313.
  2. There's a couple of mistakes in the above ... should be being corrected. But my main reason for posting is ... IN THE US, "two different mixes of "THIS OLD HEART OF MINE" were put out (copies pressed up). Both had the same Tamla label release number (54128) but their different mix numbers are shown on the 45 labels (173323 & 175313). #3323 was the 1st version. They had printed up lots of the original labels (with mix 3323 being listed as the one used) but I'm told that many actually feature the later mix. Perhaps they needed (a few months down the road) new stampers & used a different master tape / acetate to make these. I wonder how many of each of the 2 different mixes on the US Tamla 45's ended up over here in collections (seems copies made of one version far outnumber those of the 2nd version). The Canadian 45 copy (on their Tamla Motown label) used the #3323 mix (the rarer one). ALSO it's worth noting that the Irish issue of the 45 also utilised the TMG 555 number, as did the Norwegian & Finish versions of the single.
  3. Roburt replied to Dobber's topic in Look At Your Box
    Before the mods took soul to their hearts, lots of British youth had been jazz & blues fans. As blues musicians were much undervalued in the US by the early 60's and they could tour over here as solo performers (sometimes with UK musicians in tow), they could make decent money here even by playing clubs that could only accommodate small audiences. But soul singers then took over here from around 1965. But blues guys were back in vogue by the end of the 60's (& into the 70's) as many UK beat groups had turned from R&B to blues material and were championing the old records of the original US blues guys. So once again, US blues guys began touring over here again and still found appreciative audiences. One such guy was Lowell Fulsom who cut some classic songs that went on to find major success when cut by others (TRAMP). He had UK 45's released on iconic British labels, so his stuff became very collectable. It always seemed strange to me that with him cutting so many sides for Kent Records (US) and him dabbling with popular soul tracks such as "Funky Broadway" he had so few UK releases up to the early 70's.
  4. TMG 555 - A 45 that refused to go away Just how many copies of the Isley Brothers "This Old Heart Of Mine" ended up being sold in the UK. View full article
  5. I sometimes wonder if Berry Gordy really believed in H-D-H's song "This Old Heart Of Mine" as it didn't seem to get any special treatment when penned. That seems strange as the song turned out to be one of the trio's most recorded songs. The backing track for the song was first cut (in September 65) and was intended for Kim Weston's use. But Kim & Mickey Stevenson were exploring their options away from Motown at that time, so she never got to cut a version (Tammi Terrell cut a solo female version but this languished in the vaults for a while). After the Isley's were signed to Motown in Nov 65, the song was assigned to them & they almost immediately added their vocals to the existing track (on 1st Dec 65) and it was soon released on a 45 (Tamla 54128 on 28th Jan 66). But it didn't seem to get much of a push from Motown. The company hardly took any promo photos of the group, so they can't really have planned big things for them. Anyway, promo copies of the 45 must have been sent out in mid January 66 & it was soon getting plays on Windsor & Michigan radio stations. It started to enter local radio stn charts in late Jan / early Feb 66 and then spread out across the US. But it seemed to break slowly in many US areas and was getting almost as many pop stn plays as R&B stn plays (probably due to the Isley's past hits). It progressed from radio plays / charts to sales chart status but not that rapidly. By early April it was in the US R&B national chart top 10's and was also climbing the Hot 100 where it had just made the top 20. After 9 weeks on that chart it reached #15 (mid April) but it was dropping down their R&B chart that same week (from #6 to #8). As it had been a bit of a slow starter in the US, it didn't gain a UK release till the end of March but it then became a legendary release (TMG 555). Initially it just scrapped into the UK Top 50 pop chart (for 1 week; 30th April) but then continued to sell week after week. It was selling to soul / Motown fans who mainly bought from specialist shops, these not usually being chart return shops. But the sales people at such specialist shops stated that (after an initial flurry of sales in May) they would sell around 10 copies of the 45 every week. This situation went on for week after week and I guess resulted in EMI organising a 2nd press of the single late in 1966. The single kept selling copies, so unlike most other soul 45's, EMI never deleted it from their sales listings. Throughout 1967 it still kept selling. By now it was a firm disco favourite and as Motown track plays spread from mod / soul clubs to more mainstream venues (the Locarnos, Top Rank & Mecca ballrooms), none soul fans started to buy copies. This situation continued into 1968 and after a full 72 weeks of continuing sales, EMI decided to re-promote the 45 and issued a new promo copy in Oct 68. This got the single new reviews in the British music press and led to plays on BBC Radio 1. In no time at all, it went to the top of the UK R&B chart and was soon back on the pop charts. It peaked on the pop chart in mid November 68. By 18th January 69 it had dropped to #27 but this was it's 12th week on the charts. 3 weeks later it had only dropped another 5 places to stand at #32. On that same chart, their follow up 45 (“I Guess I'll Always Love You”) stood just outside the top 10, and the success the other single was enjoying finally took the focus off TMG555. But it was still selling lots of copies over 30 months after it's first UK release. I don't believe EMI ever admitted how many copies it had sold during that two & a half year period (but I could be wrong). Other versions of the song were released here & sold well too (the Supremes, Donnie Elbert, Rod Stewart x 2, Bettye Swann, Delroy Wilson, Donny Beaumont, Wild Cherry, Vonda Shepard, Jackie Moore, Gee Morris, etc.) The Isley's version was put out further times too (1975 + 1976 & again by RCA in the 80's). By July 2019 it had attained UK Silver Disc status (250,000 sales) & it went Gold (1 million sales) in Nov 2022 (no doubt as a result of many downloads by younger fans). But back in vinyl 45's heydays, I'd love to know just how many copes of this Tamla Motown 45 sold. The only people to really know would be the guys at EMI as so many copies of TMG555 would had been purchased in non chart return shops. Back then (1966 to 1968) UK charts were compiled from sales figures from between 30 and 100 record shops (when the Isley's 45 was mainly selling in quantity). Big record companies such as EMI got record shops to stock their 45's on a 'sale or return' basis. Unsold copies could be returned to EMI when the single was deleted and the shop would receive their money back. As TMG555 was never deleted (until the early 70's I guess), no copies of this single would have been eligible for this scheme. At the start of the 1960's, Record Retailer mag was just sampling sales in around 30 stores; NME and Melody Maker had a bigger sample size, more like 100 shops. In mid February 1969, Record Retailer with the BBC commissioned the BMRB to record sales of singles in what then officially became the UK Singles Chart. The BMRB compiled their chart data from approximately 250 to 300 record stores. The 300 shops used each week being randomly chosen from a pool of approximately 6,000 shops. But the majority of the 300 shops who were asked to send in their weekly sales figures (some returns were delayed in the post, thus the 250 to 300 figure for data utilised each week)were large mainstream, High Street type shops. They weren't the specialist retail shops where soul fans would usually go to buy their vinyl fix (most big pop orientated record shops not automatically carring stock of obscure soul & Motown singles released here). These mainstream record shops were also mainly located in big cities, the highest number of them being in the London area (a fact that worked against NS reissues in the 70's as sales of such 45's were quite low in the London area compared to the rest of the country). Singles in the UK were selling in unheard of volumes in the 1960's (thanks to the impetus the Beatles helped give to the record biz). Average sales figures for a 45 that reached #1 on the British pop chart were 750,000 copies. By the 70's, that had dropped to around 150,000 copies. By the mid 80's, a single could top the charts yet still only sell 50,000 copies. By 2006, a single could reach #1 by selling less than 18,000 copies. A single that only managed to attain a top 10 placing would have sold substantially less copies than the 45 that stood at #1 during those same weeks. Of course, some records caught the public's imagination and sold way more copies than was the norm for their period (the likes of Spice Girls, Oasis & New Order releases being examples of this). Oasis's “Wonderwall” single got a gold disc even though it never actually topped the charts. In the mid 70's, Queens “Bohemian Rhapsody” sold way above all other releases that year & it returned to the charts in 1991 when included in the film 'Waynes World'. In all, it's reckoned that this 45 sold in excess of 2.6 million copies in the UK. In 1963/64 a new Beatles 45 would have advance sales that justified a 1st pressing run of 250,000 copies. “Their “She Loves You” 45 was released in late August 1963 but had managed over 1.3 million copies sold by the year end (a 4 month period). EMI's big wigs were just about all classical music guys and tended to look down on the companies pop material. This situation continued even after the Beatles records were accounting for over 20% of everything EMI were selling in the UK during the mid 1960's years. How out of touch EMI managers were before the Beatles came along is shown by the fact that Elvis Presley's initial 10 UK released singles were put out by EMI on their HMV label but they weren't promoted properly, so none of them sold in the same quantities that they had in the US (4 of them made the UK top 10 though). The type of record buyer who's purchases were most reflected by high chart placings were your older M-O-R buyer. This fact is illustrated well by the top selling UK 45 most years during the 1960's. The Beatles had the top selling single in 1963 but the top seller each year after that came from Jim Reeves (64), Ken Dodd (65), Jim Reeves (66), Englebert Humpything (67), Louis Armstrong (68), the Archies (69) and Elvis Presley (70). In addition to UK 45 sales, by 1969, British soul fans had started to buy lots of imported US 45's – from outlets such as the B&S shop and F L Moores. With sales of “This Old Heart Of Mine” being almost zero across the US by 1968 / early 1969, US Motown copies were turning up at discounted prices and these were also being bought in decent quantities over here. With only 100 of the 6000 UK record shops providing data on what were the best selling singles each week, it's easy to see that sales volumes of 45's such as “This Old Heart Of Mine” could easily be underestimated. In addition to this, most record company reps knew which the sales return shops were and so would send out teams to buy certain of their own releases in these shops to 'hype' them onto the charts. Once on the chart, much more radio exposure was guaranteed and therefore sales would then be boosted due to the additional prominence the record would then be receiving. So (IMO) most weeks, TMG 555's chart position would have been lower than the actual sales volume it had managed to achieve. Even though UK Tamla Motown 45's were selling in greater quantities towards the end of the 1960's and into the 70's, very few (at the time) achieved sales volumes of 250,000 (silver disc qualitying numbers). T/Motown 45's that were big sellers here back in the day were a bit thin on the ground before the late 1960's. The only ones we know that achieved 250,000 sales back then being; THE SUPREMES “Baby Love” ... end of 1964 / early 65; FOUR TOPS “Reach Out I'll Be There” ... 1967; MARVIN GAYE “Heard It Through The Grapevine” ... 1969; STEVIE WONDER “Yester Me, Yester You, Yesterday” ... end of 69 / early 70. Of course, the 45 at number 1 on the charts each week would have sold substantially more copies that the single standing at say #5. A #1 record would probably have sold as many copies in a week as the one that had peaked at #5 had managed to sell in a month. But of course, all the charts were actually doing was collating & illuminating the records that had been selling in less than 100 chart return shops (the larger sample of shops used by the BRMB chart not commencing till around the time the Isley's biggie had dropped off the chart). In the very near future, original US released copies of this single will be 60 years old. It is still a much loved track with Motown fans all these years later, even though it will never be classed as anything close to being a rare record. In fact, I'd guess it must qualify as one of the most plentiful records to ever have escaped on the iconic British Tamla Motown label. It seems to be the only T/M 45 to appear as a promo copy in both red & white plus green & white versions. After 2006, downloads largely replaced actual vinyl copies of new singles. Even though there has now been a resurgence in vinyl sales, we will never return to the massive sale volumes of times past. It would be great however to finally find out just how many copies of the Isley's “This Old Heart Of Mine” single were pressed up in the UK down the years. My guess would be that it had reached the 250,000 singles sold landmark by the mid 1970's, but with a lot of these sales having been via small specialist shops, those sale volumes were never documented.
  6. A big tourist attraction of a similar nature in Miami is WYNWOOD WALLS. It's been going for around 16 years now & is well worth a visit. We went a few times when we had use of the house in Florida. Ft Lauderdale started a similar artistic mural thing in a run down commercial district of their city but it's nowhere near as good / big as Miami's original.
  7. The Sacramento music (soul) scene seems to be very little documented. Kenb made one small mistake above -- MABEL (LEBAM) operated out of 849 4th Avenue (the Aves run E-W, the Streets run N-S). This property is a residential bungalow, in a residential area, so I guess it was her home. The other Sacramento address is in more of a commercial type area. She seems to have been more active in the music biz (in Sacramento) in the 1940's / 50's. She was also connected with Movieland Records (as well as State Capitol), so I guess this marked her move to LA (as that label was based out of Hollywood. Sacramento, although the state capitol, was somewhat off the beaten track music wise -- especially soul music wise. One of the Precisions moved there but he'd given up music by then. A local (white) radio DJ was active in the recording biz & had opened a recoding studio in the outskirts of the city by 1970. He cut quite a bit of stuff at his Heavenly Record Studio in the 70's (including soul tracks by the East Wind Band and Swoop). But by the time he got active, Mabel was long gone.
  8. It does add a new dimension to the song, but I'd prefer an edited version (losing about 2 minutes including some off the start).
  9. One of our own has just suffered a set back ... Thieves broke into Ramona Collin's house at the end of July. She still performs, singing with live bands but she also uses tracks and does solo shows. She had all her music tracks loaded only onto her Ipad & this was stolen along with the other items taken. She has taken this personally thinking that the thief apparently wanted to disrupt her gigs. She thinks the breakin was aimed at hurting her as a singer. She can of course still sing with musicians as she has always done but using the tracks has allowed her to perform at senior centres (which she loves doing) and meant she could do many more live gigs. As she says I have been a singer in Toledo since 1968. Please keep an ear out if a singer suddenly appears on the scene using tracks covering a variety of genres. This is beyond simple thievery. It’s personal and meant to destroy me as a singer. I have no doubt who is behind this mess. She has a FACEBOOK page & I'm sure some messages from her UK fans would help restore her spirits at present.
  10. I'm gonna start to clear up my record room soon ... (AND I've only been saying that since I retired 18 years ago !!! I'm sure I will make a start soon & should come across all sorts of stuff I haven't been able to locate for 10 years or so (including your record).
  11. Have to agree. Just bought a stack from abroad. The guys list was full of decent stuff (ignored all the UK 45's and the majority of the US manufactured records). Didn't go for any big money items, I like all types of soul and love foreign releases with pic covers & on 'weird' labels. He came from a Euro country where even though you have to pay import charges on buys, the postage costs were decent (not many of them left these days). HOWEVER, if you went over a certain number of 45's his postage fee jumped from just over £30 to over £430 -- no idea why, guess it was a quirk of his country's postal service charge policy. After I noticed this, I cut back my purchases by 3 or 4 singles. Sent in my order, only to be told ... CAN'T FIND A COUPLE IN THE SHOP'S RACKS, SO THEY MUST HAVE BEEN SOLD. So he refunded me the excess cash I'd sent instantly. We then went thru a dance as I added one of the 45's I'd knocked off my original order ... THAT ONE'S GONE TOO . . . .Got there in the end but it was hard work.
  12. I've told this tale before ... BUT it's worth retelling. Lived in Worksop in the 80's & bought a car cheap from D C Cooks of Wath. It had a bodywork fault (they piled em high & sold em cheap), so I took it back for some attention. I had a couple of hours to kill so took a walk down Wath Rd towards Mexboro. Came upon a 2nd hand shop with a table outside on the pavement. He had some import (US) 45's out, so I looked thru em. They were cheap and mainly 60's stuff on MGM, Verve, etc (obviously old Bostock's stuff). Some were in those small label boxes of 20, so I opened each box up to see what the contents were. There was a Sam The Sham 45, a box of the Superiors (What Would I Do), and a few more similar items I didn't know. Left 16 of Superiors in the box, added a Sam the Sham and 3 other 'likely' items. Took them into the shop & asked how much if I buy the whole box of 20. £2 was his answer. NO, that's too much, I'll give you a quid says I. He accepted my offer and went on to tell me that 5+ years earlier he'd had a Sunday market stall & had bought loads of similar 45's to sell on the stall. These were just what he hadn't moved on at the time. So I left the shop a very happy guy. When I got home, none of the other 45's (including the Sam the Sham) appealed. So I wished I'd just left the full 20 copies of the Superiors in there and fetched those all home. Mind you, having so many copies, I sold em off (below the then current value) to mates & other guys at local soul nights. I'd never have become a millionaire with my business nouse. Similar story but earlier. Living in Donny & went junking around the market / Copley Rd areas. A 2nd hand shop on the corner of Copley Rd & Christchurch Rd had some boxes of singles. They all come from the same source & were mainly reggae 45's (I was still buying reggae versions of soul songs back then). Went thru the boxes & found a few copies of the Manhattans "That New Girl" on UK Carnival. It looked promising, so I bought a copy and a few reggae items. Got home, played "That New Girl" and loved it. NEVER DID go back to the shop to buy all the other copies of the 45 though even though they would have cost me just a few pence each (I'm definitely not millionaire material).
  13. The good thing about 'Oldies' packs was that the owner would price the 45's by hit status. Thus a Motown 45 that had been a hit by a major act @ the company would sell for a high price (by his standards), whereas a lesser known Motown act's 45 or a non-Motown Detroit soul 45 would be priced much cheaper. So buying from him was nearly always a pleasure for a committed soul fan.
  14. I'm sure everyone on here has bought SOUL BOWL soul packs (either NS / general soul or both). You also used to get some decent stuff in lots of OLDIES UNLIMITED packs (though as they bought up 1000's of TK 45's, you'd get lots of TK labels if purchasing from them in the 80's). I know one lucky devil got a couple of Shrine 45's in an OLDIES soul pack sometime in the 70's.
  15. Yes, you couldn't go far wrong buying sumat Dave recommended. Didn't know Tobi Legend when he just about forced me to buy a copy when visiting Soul City record shop in 1968. In the 80's thru to recent times, I go on junking trips to London and dive into 3 of the branches of Record & Tape Exchange. With their clear-out stuff being so cheap (LP's from 30p, 12"ers from 20p and 45's from 10p -- in the 80's / 90's / 2000's) used to buy loads on spec. If much of what I bought was rubbish, it didn't matter at those prices. Plus, I did discover quite a few goodies in there. I'm sure the guys who trawled US shops / warehouses / basements back in the 70's had to be buying blind with a lot of their purchases.

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